Anonymous eagle hits em where it stings

[dgies9156]

And this thread is why people I know that went to UW tell me that MU has little brother syndrome.

You are probably right bush gosh, I wish we would get over it.

The rodent has his virtues. But it's time we compare ourselves basketball wise to Duke, Kansas, UNC, the blue buffoon down in Kentucky etc., and not the rodent.

That will come in time.

[Dawson Rental]

Look at the article. Other than the introduction Goodman doesn't have any of his own words here. The point of the article is to survey coaches in the conference and get their perspectives. That perspective is real. Reporting on a real perspective in the context of this article is accurate reporting.

A brilliant defense of false news.  Unfortunately, the whole world is dumber for it.

It's not accurate, if Goodman merely regurgitates a patently false opinion without comment, it simply makes the case that Goodman cannot discern that an opinion is false.

[Dawson Rental]

The article is about how coaches view programs. If a coach views MU's struggle as UW being the destination school for WI kids, there is absolutely nothing wrong in reporting what that coach thinks.

If we want to talk about quoting people's thoughts on the weather it'd be like writing an article about how Wisconsinites feel about the fall weather and quoting one person who says it's been a great fall and another who says it's a terrible fall. That's not bad reporting. It's reporting what someone is writing on.

The coach feels that UW makes it more difficult for MU to land the top in state talent. Goodman isn't writing on what the reality is. He's writing on what coaches think of the program.

When he reports the quote without comment, he is representing that that IS the reality.

How do you not know this?

[GGGG]

It was just a fluff article that Goodman is likely required to put out for clicks. It has no bearing on his ability as an author. It's like you guys are expecting Grantland Rice or something.

I doubt any other fan base spent more than two seconds worrying about it. But make a inaccurate comment involving UW and our insecure fan base is up in arms.

[wadesworld]

When he reports the quote without comment, he is representing that that IS the reality.

How do you not know this?

Because it's a poll. It's. Not. Hard. To. Understand.

The reporting Goodman is doing, and should do here, is report the responses he got from the poll.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

A brilliant defense of false news.  Unfortunately, the whole world is dumber for it.

It's not accurate, if Goodman merely regurgitates a patently false opinion without comment, it simply makes the case that Goodman cannot discern that an opinion is false.

It's not false though. It's a real perception. This article is on the perception is each coaching job. There is a real perception that in state kids grow up wanting to go to Wisconsin. If this was an article on recruiting it wouls be different.

[wadesworld]

It's not false though. It's a real perception. This article is on the perception is each coaching job. There is a real perception that in state kids grow up wanting to go to Wisconsin. If this was an article on recruiting it wouls be different.

Yup.  And there's really no way to disprove it.  So yes, the AE article proves that the top in state kids end up going out of state or to Marquette more often than not, it still doesn't prove that Wisconsin recruits don't grow up wanting to play for UW over MU.

[Benny B]

Indeed. Goodman may only be re the anonymous BE ass't coach's commentary; however...

Was it not Goodman himself who ascribed rankings based on the commentary?

So how is Goodman not essentially holding up his source material as fact by drawing a conclusion based upon it?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

The more I think about it,  the more I think coaches think of "top players" as 5 star recruits.  Even if you include the future classes thru 2021, Wisconsin produces 7 in an 11 year period (back to 2011).

That's less than one 5 star per year.   Of the four that have gone to college,  one went to  Marquette  (Ellenson), one went to Wisconsin  (Dekker), and two went out of state  (Looney & Stone).

Both Looney and Stone had Wisconsin as finalists.  Marquette fans think that's just a courtesy,  and MU coaches are smart to move on earlier.   Outsiders see that as Wisconsin having an advantage,  and they think they would fair better than Ryan and Gard.

[Warrior3211]

Surprised nobody picked up on the error here:

"Buzz Williams went to an Elite Eight and a pair of Sweet 16's in his final three seasons"

It seems to be omitting Buzz's final glorious run in 13-14.

[brewcity77]

So someone stated this opinion. The AE article shows that when decision day comes, this opinion comes across as the basketball equivalent of Flat Earth Society members. Feel free to defend the opinion, as long as you're comfortable with this Flat Earth view of recruiting in the state of Wisconsin.

Does someone hold this opinion? Sure. Someone who is ill-informed and not paying attention to the topic of which they speak. That said, if the biggest negative of our program is a false belief, we're in pretty good shape.

[Galway Eagle]

Surprised nobody picked up on the error here:

"Buzz Williams went to an Elite Eight and a pair of Sweet 16's in his final three seasons"

It seems to be omitting Buzz's final glorious run in 13-14.

I noticed that but figured it wasn't any surprise because I remembered Goodman being a buzz fanboy when he left

[Pakuni]

So someone stated this opinion. The AE article shows that when decision day comes, this opinion comes across as the basketball equivalent of Flat Earth Society members. Feel free to defend the opinion, as long as you're comfortable with this Flat Earth view of recruiting in the state of Wisconsin.

Does someone hold this opinion? Sure. Someone who is ill-informed and not paying attention to the topic of which they speak. That said, if the biggest negative of our program is a false belief, we're in pretty good shape.

Maybe flat earthers are just stating an opinion of something they perceive, and no opinion or perception is ever wrong.
Check and mate.

[wadesworld]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that if Scoopers were ever in charge of putting together a poll or survey they should just throw away the responses they get that do not support what they believe to be true.

Now that is some good stuff.

[brewcity77]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that if Scoopers were ever in charge of putting together a poll or survey they should just throw away the responses they get that do not support what they believe to be true.

Now that is some good stuff.

So because you're going the Flat Earth truther route, you no longer like the discussion?

Sam didn't write this article because he didn't believe it to be true. He wrote it because it is demonstrably true that when decision day comes, this opinion completely falls apart. The assistant may hold this opinion, but reality does not play out the way his perception is presented. A reporter like Goodman should vet that. I imagine he spoke with more than one Big East assistant about Marquette and that this was not the only negative comment we received in the entirety of his interviews. And if that's the case, maybe "The Knock" he uses for Marquette shouldn't be something that is so clearly ill-informed at best.

As we are ranked in the top-5 of every other measurable category, maybe that's the case. Maybe it was hard to criticize the 5th rated "Game Atmosphere" with the new Fiserv Forum set to open. Possibly they didn't want to knock the 4th ranked "History/Tradition" since with the exception of the 1970s, we've spent the vast majority of our existence as a program where getting 2 wins in the tourney was just about our ceiling (only 2 runs deeper than that in the last 40 years). And maybe being 4th in "Media Exposure" wasn't something worth calling The Knock either since we do get our share of nationally broadcast games (which we always lose, as all Scoopers know) and always seem to be in relatively prominent exempt tournaments.

Like I said, if a provably uninformed opinion is the only negative to our program, we're probably in pretty good shape. But that doesn't mean AE is wrong, it doesn't mean the assistant that gave the opinion has any knowledge of which he speaks, and it doesn't mean that defending the perception is anything other than Basketball Flat Earth support.

[Pakuni]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that if Scoopers were ever in charge of putting together a poll or survey they should just throw away the responses they get that do not support what they believe to be true.

Now that is some good stuff.

No, what you're not getting is that regurgitating responses of a poll without even token fact-checking is not "reporting." It's transcribing.
Again, it's fine if taken for what it is ... some easily produced clickable content that Goodman no doubt has to produce on the regular. But he's not "reporting" anything and, as a so-called college basketball insider, he probably should know that the statement doesn't really jibe with reality.

[wadesworld]

So because you're going the Flat Earth truther route, you no longer like the discussion?

Sam didn't write this article because he didn't believe it to be true. He wrote it because it is demonstrably true that when decision day comes, this opinion completely falls apart. The assistant may hold this opinion, but reality does not play out the way his perception is presented. A reporter like Goodman should vet that. I imagine he spoke with more than one Big East assistant about Marquette and that this was not the only negative comment we received in the entirety of his interviews. And if that's the case, maybe "The Knock" he uses for Marquette shouldn't be something that is so clearly ill-informed at best.

As we are ranked in the top-5 of every other measurable category, maybe that's the case. Maybe it was hard to criticize the 5th rated "Game Atmosphere" with the new Fiserv Forum set to open. Possibly they didn't want to knock the 4th ranked "History/Tradition" since with the exception of the 1970s, we've spent the vast majority of our existence as a program where getting 2 wins in the tourney was just about our ceiling (only 2 runs deeper than that in the last 40 years). And maybe being 4th in "Media Exposure" wasn't something worth calling The Knock either since we do get our share of nationally broadcast games (which we always lose, as all Scoopers know) and always seem to be in relatively prominent exempt tournaments.

Like I said, if a provably uninformed opinion is the only negative to our program, we're probably in pretty good shape. But that doesn't mean AE is wrong, it doesn't mean the assistant that gave the opinion has any knowledge of which he speaks, and it doesn't mean that defending the perception is anything other than Basketball Flat Earth support.

No, what you're not getting is that regurgitating responses of a poll without even token fact-checking is not "reporting." It's transcribing.
Again, it's fine if taken for what it is ... some easily produced clickable content that Goodman no doubt has to produce on the regular. But he's not "reporting" anything and, as a so-called college basketball insider, he probably should know that the statement doesn't really jibe with reality.

The AE article does not disprove that most kids within the state of Wisconsin grow up wanting to play for UW.

Does you working at whatever organization/company you work at PROVE that, given the opportunity to work at any organization/company in the world, you would choose the one you are currently at?

[wadesworld]

No, what you're not getting is that regurgitating responses of a poll without even token fact-checking is not "reporting." It's transcribing.
Again, it's fine if taken for what it is ... some easily produced clickable content that Goodman no doubt has to produce on the regular. But he's not "reporting" anything and, as a so-called college basketball insider, he probably should know that the statement doesn't really jibe with reality.

The author literally lays that out for his reader.  "This is how polling in the Big East shook out among coaches who voted, with one being the best and 10 being the worst:"  It obviously pushed a lot of posters' buttons.  That's really on the readers, not on the author.  The author told the readers exactly what he was doing.  If they don't want to see that and want some further analysis or thoughts, then don't read the piece.  Simple as that.

To be honest, I'd much rather see the unedited thoughts of the actual coaches within the Big East than the analysis of a journalist.  I can find those any time.  Seeing unedited thoughts of coaches within the conference?  That's something you don't get very often and much more interesting, to me anyway.

[skianth16]

Like I said, if a provably uninformed opinion is the only negative to our program, we're probably in pretty good shape. But that doesn't mean AE is wrong, it doesn't mean the assistant that gave the opinion has any knowledge of which he speaks, and it doesn't mean that defending the perception is anything other than Basketball Flat Earth support.

As has been pointed out, but apparently still ignored, the quote isn't about where Wisconsin kids go to school. It's about where Wisconsin kids want to go to school, who they have on their final list. There also isn't a qualifier for kids from WI that stay in WI; that was added here on Scoop. So what this coach (who I am going to assume is a tiny bit more qualified to speak on the topic of Big East recruiting than any of us, given that it's his job) is saying is different than what people continue to bicker about.

What was said - rephrased: Good kids from WI tend to rank UW as more desirable than MU when making their final decision, even if they end up playing for Duke or Maryland or Kentucky.

What was not said but seems to be inferred from the Scoop community: WI kids tend to choose UW over MU 

Hopefully this helps to clear things up. (although I doubt that it will)

[MomofMUltiples]

I'm of the opinion (and I disagree that opinions can't be wrong) that Goodman wrote the article he intended to write and that AE took the opinion of some BE assistant coach and debunked it using facts.  The only place I disagree with AE is that Goodman was ignorant to allow this "incorrect opinion" to be published.

This wasn't intended to be an analytical piece where a basketball "expert" broke down the strengths and weaknesses of each team in order to create some ranking.  It was a fluff piece talking about how the big east coaching staffs perceive the coaching jobs in the big east.  Whether those perceptions were right or wrong is irrelevant to Goodman, he's simply reporting the perceptions.  Both articles were fine.

PLEASE let the season start soon!

[Pakuni]

The AE article does not disprove that most kids within the state of Wisconsin grow up wanting to play for UW.

No, it just proves that when given the chance to go to Wisconsin (Herro, Looney, Joey Hauser, Stone, etc. all had Wisconsin offers), they choose to go elsewhere.

Does you working at whatever organization/company you work at PROVE that, given the opportunity to work at any organization/company in the world, you would choose the one you are currently at?

So your argument now is that even though the top kids want to play for Wisconsin and have offers to play for Wisconsin, they choose to go elsewhere?
Makes sense.
Like I said, this argument is dumb.
The assistant coach Goodman quoted is wrong, and calling what Goodman did here "reporting" also is wrong.

[Galway Eagle]

As has been pointed out, but apparently still ignored, the quote isn't about where Wisconsin kids go to school. It's about where Wisconsin kids want to go to school, who they have on their final list. There also isn't a qualifier for kids from WI that stay in WI; that was added here on Scoop. So what this coach (who I am going to assume is a tiny bit more qualified to speak on the topic of Big East recruiting than any of us, given that it's his job) is saying is different than what people continue to bicker about.

What was said - rephrased: Good kids from WI tend to rank UW as more desirable than MU when making their final decision, even if they end up playing for Duke or Maryland or Kentucky.

What was not said but seems to be inferred from the Scoop community: WI kids tend to choose UW over MU 

Hopefully this helps to clear things up. (although I doubt that it will)

This.

Let's imagine that said assistant talked to Herro, Tokoto, Looney and Stone and they all said "if I was going to stick around here I'd head to UW" then that would mean that this assistants opinion I based off his experience and has some merit to it. Even if the data behind commitments doesn't back up that opinion.

[MU82]

As one who used to do for a living what Goodman does now, I'm sticking with exactly what I said earlier:

So I'm not "mad" at Goodman for not pointing out the coach's BS, but truly good reporting would have meant not just taking a coach at his word for a "fact" that's fairly easy to verify.

There are articles about political polls pretty much daily now. It would not represent "activist journalism" for the author of such a piece to handle something this way:

The poll showed that 48% of Party X said they would not vote for Candidate Y because he is from Africa. (In fact, Candidate Y was born in the United States, not Africa.)

Making sure the readers know the facts not only is good journalism, but necessary journalism IMHO.

On the other hand, I wouldn't approve of this:

The poll showed that 48% of Party X said they would not vote for Candidate Z because he is stupid. (In fact, Candidate Z is not stupid.)

"Stupid" is an opinion. Candidate Y's birthplace is a fact.

Goodman had facts at his disposal and chose to ignore them -- or, if we want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and maybe he deserves just that), what the assistant coach said didn't register as potentially false, so Goodman felt no need to verify it.

But to come out and say it's either wrong or unnecessary to point out a fact in an article about a poll ... that's silliness.

[Pakuni]

As has been pointed out, but apparently still ignored, the quote isn't about where Wisconsin kids go to school. It's about where Wisconsin kids want to go to school, who they have on their final list. There also isn't a qualifier for kids from WI that stay in WI; that was added here on Scoop. So what this coach (who I am going to assume is a tiny bit more qualified to speak on the topic of Big East recruiting than any of us, given that it's his job) is saying is different than what people continue to bicker about.

What was said - rephrased: Good kids from WI tend to rank UW as more desirable than MU when making their final decision, even if they end up playing for Duke or Maryland or Kentucky.

What was not said but seems to be inferred from the Scoop community: WI kids tend to choose UW over MU 

Hopefully this helps to clear things up. (although I doubt that it will)

So, basically, if one re-contextualizes what the coach said and fills in some blanks by assuming what he might have meant to say (as opposed to just dealing what he actually said), then the quote might have some validity.
The fact one has to jump through such hoops to make sense of the quote simply proves it was shoddy reporting by Goodman, no?

Lie MU82, I'm not at all offended by what Goodman did here. I'm offended that some of you consider it reporting.

[skianth16]

So, basically, if one re-contextualizes what the coach said and fills in some blanks by assuming what he might have meant to say (as opposed to just dealing what he actually said), then the quote might have some validity.
The fact one has to jump through such hoops to make sense of the quote simply proves it was shoddy reporting by Goodman, no?

Lie MU82, I'm not at all offended by what Goodman did here. I'm offended that some of you consider it reporting.

That's actually completely backwards. What was actually said has nothing - I repeat, nothing - to do with commitments or LOIs or about which state they actually end up playing in. Those things were brought up here by Scoopers.

Also, can we drop the whole pretense of being offended by such bad journalism? That's not the issue here, and anyone (MU82 aside) who is saying the issue is with Goodman's lack of effort is just lying to themselves.