The lack of an inside game was really exposed tonight.

[79Warrior]

We got a pass when Harangody killed our bigs because we won.

Burke and Barro are just awful. I just do not see a Top 4 finish in the BE without an inside presence.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Why do you not see that? Have we not done that the past two years? What, one loss and now all hope is gone?

Look who MU played. Look how they shot from the outside. You don't think that if they hit a couple shots it opens the lanes up to penetrate and dish? Offensively, I think Barro gives you a lot more than Burke. Burke's just not good at all.

And although I just defended Blackledge needs more time, when they are on offense and he's out there, it's like playing 4 on 5 w/Blackledge out on the perimeter charging the hoop when there's a shot.

Overall, tonight was just a bad match-up combined w/terrible shooting. Also, a bad four minute stretch of defense in the second cost them. They were within four and Louisville went on a 12-0 run. Ballgame.

People on this post who follow MU should not be surprised one friggin' bit by what happened tonight. Does that mean we shouldn't be upset about it? No. But we should all inhale...then exhale...and remember that what we saw tonight wasn't a shock. We can not rely solely on low-post scoring to carry us through a game.

Hayward is the MVP of this team and as he goes, so goes MU. Look what he did tonight and I'm not one bit shocked. Now...our next four games we match-up well. But if we shoot 1-24 again, it will just let teams sit back and wait.

Terrible shooting game and there are definitely some concerns out of it, too (James, Cube's sudden lack of effectiveness, not getting Dan shots). But I'm not freaking out or suddenly calling Barro a "waste of a scholarship".

[79Warrior]

[quote author=Niv Berkowitz link=topic=5678.msg46614#msg46614 date=But if we shoot 1-24 again, it will just let teams sit back and wait.

Terrible shooting game and there are definitely some concerns out of it, too (James, Cube's sudden lack of effectiveness, not getting Dan shots). But I'm not freaking out or suddenly calling Barro a "waste of a scholarship".

[/quote]

I never said anywhere Ooze is a waste of a scholarship. I am just stating the obvious, Burke and Barro are not legit inside players in this league. I am not "freaking out" about the loss. What is distrubing is we were completely outplayed.

[muPARTY]

Burke and Barro combined totals...
25 min
4 rebounds
1 block
0 points
9 fouls

Niv i'm not bashing them, just look at my posts in the "barro is awful" thread and that's clear. 

but the top 2 post guys on a "Top" Big East team can't do that ^^^

[mu_hilltopper]

While our inside play is pretty sad, that did NOT lose the game tonight.   When you cannot shoot from outside 6 feet, you are going to lose every time.  Shaq himself wouldn't have made a difference.

We shoot 38% instead of 30%, and hit just 20% from behind the arc, the game would have been down to the wire.

[muPARTY]

While our inside play is pretty sad, that did NOT lose the game tonight.   When you cannot shoot from outside 6 feet, you are going to lose every time.  Shaq himself wouldn't have made a difference.

while i know the shaq remark was hyberbole, it would have made a difference.  the post players didn't lose the game, but having a team without a true "go to" post player DID lose the game tonight.

when we couldn't hit the outside shot, what game plan could MU turn to to mix it up?  none.  if outside doesn't work, you go inside, but without an inside game to turn to, you can't go anywhere. 

Louisville didn't have to change their defense once the outside game didn't materialize.  fill the lane to prevent easy layups then move out to briefly contest the shots.  West Virgina, same thing.  disrupt the outside shooting, because there is no inside threat you'll have to focus on.  Padgent, Harangody, Thabeet, Hibbert, Donte Greene (6'11 @ Syracuse w/ 18.9ppg) are the guys you need to double/triple team when they have the ball down low.  that should free up a shooter for an easier/open shot.  Marquette post players require a simply man-to-man and even zone to defend.

Bottom line, Marquette doesn't hit the outside shots, they're done.  there is no Plan B

[Pardner]

Our guards---the strength of our team and the reason why we should be competitive on the road--were again the disappointment tonight like WVU.  13-39 shooting, no treys...and 2, that's right 2 whopping assists!  Our Bigs are not the type to find their own shots.  

We actually attacked the 2-3 match-up zone well tonight but couldn't again find the bottom of the net on the road.  The looks were there--we missed chippies, forced shots or couldn't find the trigger.  Step it up boys and focus on getting of to a good start instead of TO City.

Lastly, I am done with the "Burke as a starter experiment"--especially on the road.  Ooze has his issues, but Burke just isn't there.  Ooze was much better in the BE last year as a starter in the first half of the conference play.  Screw the fouls thing if you are flat footed from the start with Burke....we are digging too big a hole right off the bat on the road.  Slick Rick went right at us inside.  Anything Ooze can give us on O is a plus.

[77fan88warrior]

Our guards---the strength of our team and the reason why we should be competitive on the road--were again the disappointment tonight like WVU.  13-39 shooting, no treys...and 2, that's right 2 whopping assists!  Our Bigs are not the type to find their own shots. 

We actually attacked the 2-3 match-up zone well tonight but couldn't again find the bottom of the net on the road.  The looks were there--we missed chippies, forced shots or couldn't find the trigger.  Step it up boys and focus on getting of to a good start instead of TO City.

Lastly, I am done with the "Burke as a starter experiment"--especially on the road.  Ooze has his issues, but Burke just isn't there.  Ooze was much better in the BE last year as a starter in the first half of the conference play.  Screw the fouls thing if you are flat footed from the start with Burke....we are digging too big a hole right off the bat on the road.  Slick Rick went right at us inside.  Anything Ooze can give us on O is a plus.

I agree on starting Barro. He plays with a lot more energy and Burke is in as much foul trouble as Barro. It would be nice if we could find some post up moves besides Hayward's. His size is exposed against larger post players.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Barro should be starting for sure.

And from earlier posts...nobody on this posting was saying Ooze was a waste. They were on another posting string so that's where those comments came from.

Burke is no way, shape or form a starter.

[mu_hilltopper]

I can get the idea, though, why Burke starts.  Start Burke and see what D is being thrown at MU, he's not going to hurt you that bad, and he's a sacrificial lamb.  Squeeze Ooze's 1st half minutes down to 12, so he can't pick up too many PFs.  Then you have him for the 2nd half.

[mu03eng]

Burke really hurt us last night.  Several times he hedged out on the pick and roll and didn't even pay attention when Padgett slipped on him.  At least 6 of Padgett's points came on that very play with Burke guarding him....and it was the play that kicked off the 12-0 run IIRC.

Burke should be third on the depth chart now with Barro starting and Trend getting the majority of the back-up minutes.  If you want energy off the tip and save Barro's fouls then start Trend over Burke....Burke just isn't bringing what he did against Wisconsin.


And having said all that, I absolutely agree our shooting is what killed us.  DJ and Lazar each had at least two lay-ups they put up too hard, and if you don't hit a 3 we can't drive. 

The sun came up this morning so I'm still pretty confident about Sunday.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We got a pass when Harangody killed our bigs because we won.

Burke and Barro are just awful. I just do not see a Top 4 finish in the BE without an inside presence.

Any takers that our exact same team beats that exact same Louisville team in a few weeks in Milwaukee?

[mviale]

Our lack of Big men were really exposed at Wisconsin and at home against Notre Dame.

wrap it up

[79Warrior]

Our lack of Big men were really exposed at Wisconsin and at home against Notre Dame.

wrap it up

Unless I was watching a different game than you, Harangody rang us up big time. Barro and Burke were eaten alive by Luke. Granted we won, but that game may turn out to be the best overall shooting performance by the team this year. Time will tell.

[77ncaachamps]

Our lack of Big men were really exposed at Wisconsin and at home against Notre Dame.

wrap it up

I think your lacking to see the "other" disadvantage of not having quality bigs (as posted in the OP): the lack of a post game.

To counteract a bad perimeter shooting night, where else do you go? Inside, of course. But with Burke and Barro, you really can't do that. Trend is showing more of a nose for the ball. I wouldn't be surprised if Trend starts the next game, or is the second big off the bench (assuming Barro consumes most of the foul duty on Thabeet).