Negotiating Salary

[MUDPT]

You can also leverage down the road.  Once you get to the new company, become a really good employee, get to know the managers, gain trust.  Next performance review: "I love working here, glad I made the switch, I got offered more money before I left the last place, but I know I made the right decision." It will come across as sincere and look impressive that your made a "sacrifice" for the company.

[GGGG]

And here's the deal.  Whenever you take a new job, you are going to be left with feelings of "did I leave money on the table."  But if you take the job at the compensation level you are comfortable with, it shouldn't really matter. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

So, Fourth & State, what did all this advice get you?

[4th and State]

So, Fourth & State, what did all this advice get you?

Here’s where I am at. The counter offer did not go as planned. They matched the offer I had from firm 2, but there is acquisition going on with firm 1 where I am currently at, and I would also get a decent signing bonus (a portion of which is equity of the acquiring firm) if I stay.  This is not a crazy amount, but nonetheless it’s enticing.

I am very seriously considering staying and think it could be a bigger opportunity down the line. I also don’t want to back out of the offer from firm 2, but I believe staying would be the better career decision at the moment.

[warriorchick]

Here’s where I am at. The counter offer did not go as planned. They matched the offer I had from firm 2, but there is acquisition going on with firm 1 where I am currently at, and I would also get a decent signing bonus (a portion of which is equity of the acquiring firm) if I stay.  This is not a crazy amount, but nonetheless it’s enticing.

I am very seriously considering staying and think it could be a bigger opportunity down the line. I also don’t want to back out of the offer from firm 2, but I believe staying would be the better career decision at the moment.

If there was any chance at all that you would entertain a counteroffer from your current employer, you should have talked to them before you accepted the new job.
Honor the commitment you made and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

[forgetful]

If there was any chance at all that you would entertain a counteroffer from your current employer, you should have talked to them before you accepted the new job.
Honor the commitment you made and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

I disagree.  They should do what is best for them and their family.  If something happened to the market, or within the new company, they would rescind the offer/agreement or fire them in a heartbeat, without even a thought of the commitment. 

Too often I have had friends take new job offers, with the promise of a "growing company," only to be laid off or fired within a week/month of taking the new job, because the company needed to undergo restructuring.

[warriorchick]

I disagree.  They should do what is best for them and their family.  If something happened to the market, or within the new company, they would rescind the offer/agreement or fire them in a heartbeat, without even a thought of the commitment. 

Too often I have had friends take new job offers, with the promise of a "growing company," only to be laid off or fired within a week/month of taking the new job, because the company needed to undergo restructuring.

I understand what you are saying, but this person is telegraphing that they don't honor their commitments, and I don't want someone like that working for me. If someone pulled trying to increase an accepted offer, I would send them back to their old company. 
I suppose that if your plan is to return to your current employer if the new company don't bump up their offer, you don't have much to lose by asking.  However, if you would still consider switching even if they don't, you would be  starting a new role with one strike against you.

[#UnleashSean]

If there was any chance at all that you would entertain a counteroffer from your current employer, you should have talked to them before you accepted the new job.
Honor the commitment you made and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

To hell with that. Whatever is in his best interest is where he should go.

[WarriorDad]

If there was any chance at all that you would entertain a counteroffer from your current employer, you should have talked to them before you accepted the new job.
Honor the commitment you made and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

I agree.  4th will be looked at from here on out as someone with one foot out the door, and not with the program.  That is hard to undo even if you are fully committed. 

[jesmu84]

It always makes me chuckle that employees are expected to have loyalty, but employers can do whatever. Strange world.

[StillAWarrior]

It always makes me chuckle that employees are expected to have loyalty, but employers can do whatever. Strange world.

I don’t see this as a loyalty issue. I think people seem to be commenting more on accepting the offer with the new company and then backing out. That’s a completely different issue than loyalty. I’m not a big fan of that move, and think it would have been better to not accept if he wasn’t committed to leaving the old company. That said, add me to the list that thinks you should do what’s best for you and your family.  If that means your reputation takes a (probably minor) hit because you backed out, they you can choose to take that hit. But, be aware that you don’t want to take too many hits like that. It’s a small world, and people talk. You don’t want a reputation for not doing what you say you’ll do.

[GGGG]

I don't blame 4th for backing out and staying with his current employer.  Yeah it would be better if he would have not accepted, but I think he is within the window where it is acceptable.  And Still is correct - a single move like this really is understandable and isn't going to harm you long term.

[WarriorDad]

It always makes me chuckle that employees are expected to have loyalty, but employers can do whatever. Strange world.

In my day there were many employers that had loyalty toward employees.  We are product of our environment.  If that isn't your situation, that is fine, but that doesn't mean your blanket statement is true.

[jesmu84]

In my day there were many employers that had loyalty toward employees.  We are product of our environment.  If that isn't your situation, that is fine, but that doesn't mean your blanket statement is true.

Am I to assume, by your lead-in, that your "day" was in the past? Things change. Culture, society, employment, etc.

[Babybluejeans]

4th, do what’s best for you and your career, whether that’s staying or going. The rest is noise. 

[MU82]

In my day there were many employers that had loyalty toward employees.  We are product of our environment.  If that isn't your situation, that is fine, but that doesn't mean your blanket statement is true.

In your day? Are you 97 years old?

Employers have one calling, one goal, one mission: make money. If they deem that the best way to do that is to be loyal and wonderful to employees, that's what they'll do. Unfortunately, many employers do not deem that as anything close to the best way to do it.

I'll get off your yard now, gramps!

[dgies9156]

If there was any chance at all that you would entertain a counteroffer from your current employer, you should have talked to them before you accepted the new job.
Honor the commitment you made and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

I agree with Sister Chick.

Honesty and living up to your word is a positive moral value that defines who you are as a person.

The situationalism associated with financial compensation is less important than living your life consistent with the values you hold as a person. I recognize there are many "extenuating" circumstances in a job change, but at the end  of the day, if you told someone you were going to do something based on a specific set of facts for which you had advanced knowledge, then you owe it to them to live up to your commitment.

Good luck.

[forgetful]

Honesty and living up to your word is a positive moral value that defines who you are as a person.

The situationalism associated with financial compensation is less important than living your life consistent with the values you hold as a person. I recognize there are many "extenuating" circumstances in a job change, but at the end  of the day, if you told someone you were going to do something based on a specific set of facts for which you had advanced knowledge, then you owe it to them to live up to your commitment.

Good luck.

In all honesty, this isn't true anymore. American's don't value honesty or integrity, they value a persons worth based on how rich they are, with the assumption that if you are wealthy that means you got there through hard work, intelligence, and values.

Actual moral values get you a pat on the back, and called a sucker when your boss walks away. 

No idea how we got here, but that is now the reality.

[GGGG]

In all honesty, this isn't true anymore. American's don't value honesty or integrity, they value a persons worth based on how rich they are, with the assumption that if you are wealthy that means you got there through hard work, intelligence, and values.

Actual moral values get you a pat on the back, and called a sucker when your boss walks away. 

No idea how we got here, but that is now the reality.

Well I'm not going to go that far.  I would say that employers by and large value honesty and integrity.  But what's missing is loyalty.  They don't have it and by and large aren't surprised if their employees don't either.

That is why 4th and State backing out of his acceptance, while not really the best idea in the world, is still something he can do and feel right with himself. 

[Coleman]

If it was me personally....I'm with Chick. If I accepted a new offer, I am going there.

I would have entertained a counteroffer before I accepted. I probably still wouldn't have taken it. Counteroffers just rarely ever work out for the best. Even if your boss is sincere about still wanting you, you have put a seed of doubt in his mind about you. Even if your boss doesn't know it yet. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong. It is just the reality.

I am not going to judge you for doing what you think is right. Maybe the counteroffer will work out. I don't think it is immoral to take the counter. I just don't think it will end well for you. But best of luck either way.

[JWags85]

When I first started out of college, I applied for a job with a financial firm I was very interested in and had a good first interview.  However communication went silent and they seemingly moved on. I interviewed with a diff company in a diff field and accepted an offer. In the 3 weeks between accepting and my start date, the financial firm came back and wanted me for another interview. I was torn, took the interview, but felt I was being disloyal and unfair to the company that gave me he accepted offer and my heart wasn’t in it. No further interviews or offers came.

That firm, 6 months later, was acquired by a larger company which resulted in payouts of some sort to all employees, no matter how junior, plus being absorbed into a trading desk of a respected company with a lot of stability in a turbulent 2009-2010 period.  On the other hand, I was laid off, right before the holidays, 4 months after I started, when my company got tight and cut my entire hiring class.

I happened to run into the manager I interviewed with at a networking event as I was looking for a new job in that time (which is how I found out about a lot of the acquisition news) and he told me that my enthusiasm/interest is why they brought me back for another interview, but it was apparent something had changed which was why they didn’t extend an offer. REALLY hard to hear/take at the time, but a good lesson. Don’t be immoral or dishonest, but this is YOUR life and YOUR career, do right by yourself and not an employer who hasn’t demonstrated the same commitment to you outside of simple employement

[warriorchick]

If it was me personally....I'm with Chick. If I accepted a new offer, I am going there.

I would have entertained a counteroffer before I accepted. I probably still wouldn't have taken it. Counteroffers just rarely ever work out for the best. Even if your boss is sincere about still wanting you, you have put a seed of doubt in his mind about you. Even if your boss doesn't know it yet. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong. It is just the reality.

I am not going to judge you for doing what you think is right. Maybe the counteroffer will work out. I don't think it is immoral to take the counter. I just don't think it will end well for you. But best of luck either way.

While I agree that accepting the counteroffer isn't a great idea, I think the more egregious issue is using the counteroffer to get more money from the new employer - after he accepted the original deal.  4th had even said that the new offer was still better than his employee's counter.

Was the job change only about money?  If so, you are still coming out ahead by taking the original offer.  If not, the work issues that made you look elsewhere aren't going to go away simply because they are throwing more money at you.  You are making a major life decision here, not trying to get a better price for a TV at American.

[MU82]

After I accepted a job from a different employer and got all the benefit terms a couple weeks before I started working there, I noticed that I would not be able to take part in the 401k plan at the new place for many, many months. That delay would cost me thousands of dollars in taxes.

I really wrestled with whether or not to pursue it. When my new boss and I had lunch shortly before I was to start working there, he asked, "Is there anything else we can do for you?" I decided to mention the 401k thing. I was very polite and let him know immediately that I didn't "expect" anything. He immediately said, "Figure out what you think our 401k policy is costing you and send me an invoice. We'll take care of you."

And they did. Cut me a check for the exact amount.

This went right into the department my mom would call, "You won't get it if you don't ask for it."

[dgies9156]

In all honesty, this isn't true anymore. American's don't value honesty or integrity, they value a persons worth based on how rich they are, with the assumption that if you are wealthy that means you got there through hard work, intelligence, and values.

Actual moral values get you a pat on the back, and called a sucker when your boss walks away. 

No idea how we got here, but that is now the reality.

Brother Link, that is what is called a Mass Man Fallacy. Just because Americans "don't value" something, doesn't mean it is not a value that governs how a moral and ethical person lives. I never based a decision solely on money or personal reward.

At some point, I can use situationalism to justify about anything. I know comparatively this is a very small thing, but a person's word is their word. Heck, if you're not sure about a job, delay a final discussion on acceptance or just say no.

[forgetful]

Brother Link, that is what is called a Mass Man Fallacy. Just because Americans "don't value" something, doesn't mean it is not a value that governs how a moral and ethical person lives. I never based a decision solely on money or personal reward.

At some point, I can use situationalism to justify about anything. I know comparatively this is a very small thing, but a person's word is their word. Heck, if you're not sure about a job, delay a final discussion on acceptance or just say no.

I didn't say that I don't value moral values.

My industry is one where you don't get a significant raise without getting another offer and use it as leverage.  I've had numerous entities solicit my interest (the industry knows this is the practice so you don't get an offer until serious interest has been expressed).  Had I simply feigned interest, I would have gotten offers and could have used them for 20-50% raises.  I have not, because I respect my peers, and will not even express interest unless I'd seriously entertain the offer. 

My employer knows of a list of 5, that if asked, there is a strong chance I leave for.  It is unusual, but those are my values.  That means I'm significantly underpaid, because I'm not playing the game.