Negotiating Salary

[4th and State]

Guys,

I recently accepted an offer for a new position and, when attempting to put in my two weeks at my current firm, got a counter offer (somewhat expected).  My intention is still to go to the new firm, but there is a no longer much of a salary bump because of the counter offer.  Anyone have experience reaching back out to the new firm, explaining the counter offer, and asking for a slightly higher salary than agreed upon?  I don't want to ruffle feathers at the new company, but I don't want to leave $$ on the table.

Any suggestions here? 

[GGGG]

Guys,

I recently accepted an offer for a new position and, when attempting to put in my two weeks at my current firm, got a counter offer (somewhat expected).  My intention is still to go to the new firm, but there is a no longer much of a salary bump because of the counter offer.  Anyone have experience reaching back out to the new firm, explaining the counter offer, and asking for a slightly higher salary than agreed upon?  I don't want to ruffle feathers at the new company, but I don't want to leave $$ on the table.

Any suggestions here? 

IMO, I think you lost that option once you accepted the position.  If you did this post-offer, but before acceptance, I think it would be fine.  But I would find it in poor taste if someone came back to me at that point.

[Chili]

Guys,

I recently accepted an offer for a new position and, when attempting to put in my two weeks at my current firm, got a counter offer (somewhat expected).  My intention is still to go to the new firm, but there is a no longer much of a salary bump because of the counter offer.  Anyone have experience reaching back out to the new firm, explaining the counter offer, and asking for a slightly higher salary than agreed upon?  I don't want to ruffle feathers at the new company, but I don't want to leave $$ on the table.

Any suggestions here?

Here is where you have to decide some things. Do you want to move if the salary is even? If you don't, then by all means ask for more from the new position. There are 2 risks here. One, they say no which is no big deal. Two, they pull the offer, but this is rare. I would say go for it. It's currently a job seeker market. Just let them know you received a counter offer. Also, this is a time to ask about other items too - starting with more vacation days, higher bonus potential, etc.

[StillAWarrior]

IMO, I think you lost that option once you accepted the position.  If you did this post-offer, but before acceptance, I think it would be fine.  But I would find it in poor taste if someone came back to me at that point.

Here's something I don't say all that often: I'm with Sultan on this one.  It would leave a very poor taste in my mouth if someone who accepted my offer a few days ago came back and asked for more just because he got a counter-offer from his prior employer.  Truth be told, my response would likely be, "then you should probably take that counter-offer."  If you want the new position, go with it.  Even if they don't pull the offer, it just seems like a bad way to start the relationship.

[muwarrior69]

Take the new job. If your old employer valued your work they would have recognized you with an increase in salary and new responsibilities, but no, they waited for you to leave.

[rocket surgeon]

Take the new job. If your old employer valued your work they would have recognized you with an increase in salary and new responsibilities, but no, they waited for you to leave.

Great point and this would be the point that would make me feel better taking the new position.


Questions however

                           -Is the “bump” a BUMP, or just a “cup of coffee”?

                           -how long had you been working for company #1?
     
                           -Do you feel comfortable with starting over with a new company?  Getting to know new people, the distance to travel to new company, the geographic location, traffic, etc

                            -Are you leaving company #1 under good terms?

Remember, it’s a small world out there.  Never burn a bridge
                     
Good luck on ya!
                           

[Archies Bat]

Guys,

I recently accepted an offer for a new position and, when attempting to put in my two weeks at my current firm, got a counter offer (somewhat expected).  My intention is still to go to the new firm, but there is a no longer much of a salary bump because of the counter offer.  Anyone have experience reaching back out to the new firm, explaining the counter offer, and asking for a slightly higher salary than agreed upon?  I don't want to ruffle feathers at the new company, but I don't want to leave $$ on the table.

Any suggestions here?

I recommend you take the new job.

I have hired many employees over time, and many have left for better jobs.

I have had folks accept my offer, and then ask for more.  I have always declined, and thanked them and moved to other candidates.  On the rare occasion I still hired them, it was because they had hard to find skills.  Even then, I never really trusted them to be a long term employee.

On the other side, I have had folks quit.  Unless they have skills I really need, I always let them go without counter. In those cases I am quickly looking for a replacement because my experience is that once someone decides to accept another offer, accepting the next offer becomes much easier and they will likely leave at some point in the near future.


On a related note, we are seeing some folks we hire not show up. Is anyone else?

https://www.clomedia.com/2018/09/06/ghost-story-2018-when-candidates-and-new-hires-go-dark/

[JWags85]

IMO, I think you lost that option once you accepted the position.  If you did this post-offer, but before acceptance, I think it would be fine.  But I would find it in poor taste if someone came back to me at that point.

Agreed.  Part of the juiciness of the offer is usually the value given to getting you to leave your current role.  Coming back because its no longer "big enough" in relation to the past salary, when you've already accepted, aka agreeing it was big enough, is poor form.  If they had matched, its a big trickier, but still.

My biggest issue had always been hiring companies holding me hostage before offering salary.  You agree in principle and they would flat out REFUSE to give a number without a current salary.  A top ad agency and a Fortune 100 company I worked for both did it, and I tried every comment to get around it to no avail.  This was only an issue because at the jobs prior to each of them, extenuating factors lead to me being severely underpaid.  This hurt me at the agency, and then when I moved to the F100, after a graduate degree, I know for a fact I started $10-15K behind comparable peers cause of it.  They even said "without a number, we will benchmark it against what we see as common for the position you currently hold" which was ominous to say the least.

[JWags85]

On a related note, we are seeing some folks we hire not show up. Is anyone else?

[urlhttps://www.clomedia.com/2018/09/06/ghost-story-2018-when-candidates-and-new-hires-go-dark/][/url]

Thats very odd, however, my gf works for a respected asset manager in NYC and she's interviewing for an junior analyst position, basically between an entry level and an analyst, and even working with recruiters, she has about 25-33% of her scheduled interviews not show up, flat out without notice.  Its wild.  You'd think they were hiring for temp data entry work.

[4everwarriors]

Gotta agree wit da Pontiff (must be somethin' in da water). Were someone ta have pulled dat chit wit me, it'll bee adios mf'er and don't let da door hit yo sorry ass on da wey out, aina?

[Archies Bat]

Thats very odd, however, my gf works for a respected asset manager in NYC and she's interviewing for an junior analyst position, basically between an entry level and an analyst, and even working with recruiters, she has about 25-33% of her scheduled interviews not show up, flat out without notice.  Its wild.  You'd think they were hiring for temp data entry work.

I happened to pull data from our recruiters today so we can see what we can do better, but here are September stats for my company:
- Hired and on-boarded in September - 9 new employees
- Offered, accepted, but did not show up- 4 (two stayed with current employer and two failed to show up)
- Offered a job but never replied - 3
- Failed to show for interview 8 out of 36 scheduled

[Benny B]

Take the new job. If your old employer valued your work they would have recognized you with an increase in salary and new responsibilities, but no, they waited for you to leave.

This.  Your current job may value people, but they don’t value you as an individual.  Don’t risk the new job offer asking for more.  Make good on your acceptance, work your ass off for a year, and then in your performance review, disclose to your new employer how you turned down your previous employer’s offer and ask for a raise commensurate with said offer.

[JWags85]

I happened to pull data from our recruiters today so we can see what we can do better, but here are September stats for my company:
- Hired and on-boarded in September - 9 new employees
- Offered, accepted, but did not show up- 4 (two stayed with current employer and two failed to show up)
- Offered a job but never replied - 3
- Failed to show for interview 8 out of 36 scheduled

Wild. Goes to show how the market has improved. Not counting the on campus interview for a job I never wanted, I applied and networked for 3-4 months when I graduated in 2008 to just get an interview. And got laid off twice within a year. Now apparently, interviews are like Tinder dates. Maybe you ghost

[4th and State]

Here is where you have to decide some things. Do you want to move if the salary is even? If you don't, then by all means ask for more from the new position. There are 2 risks here. One, they say no which is no big deal. Two, they pull the offer, but this is rare. I would say go for it. It's currently a job seeker market. Just let them know you received a counter offer. Also, this is a time to ask about other items too - starting with more vacation days, higher bonus potential, etc.

Chili: If the salary is even I would still probably move.  I am ready for a change. 

Great point and this would be the point that would make me feel better taking the new position.


Questions however

                           -Is the “bump” a BUMP, or just a “cup of coffee”?

                           -how long had you been working for company #1?
     
                           -Do you feel comfortable with starting over with a new company?  Getting to know new people, the distance to travel to new company, the geographic location, traffic, etc

                            -Are you leaving company #1 under good terms?

Remember, it’s a small world out there.  Never burn a bridge
                     
Good luck on ya!
                           

Rocket:
   1- The compensation bump originally (before the counter) was a 21% bump.  I haven’t officially gotten a figure on the counter (will get that tomorrow am) I imagine it will still be a 5-10% bump at the new firm.  I'll have to see on that.
   2-I have worked at company #1 for 6 years.  Ironically, 3 years ago i got an offer to leave, received a counter offer, and elected to stay at firm #1
   3-The new position will make my commute much better, so that will be great.  Firm #1 is the only company I’ve worked for, so I am a bit afraid of starting over, but people change jobs all the time and I am ready for some new challenges
   4-I am sure they will not be happy I am leaving, but there’s never been any ill-will between any of us.  There has been some recent turnover, but I don’t think they could really blame me for taking more $ elsewhere.

Thanks for the input everyone.  Seems like most are saying it is not worth the risk if I do in fact want to go to the new firm, which is valid.  I definitely don't want to start the relationship out on a bad foot.  I also would be surprised to see them pull the offer because circumstances changed and I asked for a slight increase in the offer.

[real chili 83]

DON't DO IT!!!!. Even if they take you, you're integrity will be suspect.  And, stats show most people who take a counter offer, leave within a year. 

[GGGG]

This.  Your current job may value people, but they don’t value you as an individual.  Don’t risk the new job offer asking for more.  Make good on your acceptance, work your ass off for a year, and then in your performance review, disclose to your new employer how you turned down your previous employer’s offer and ask for a raise commensurate with said offer.

Yeah this is really good advice. 

[Herman Cain]

Take the offer from the new employer and do great work on the new job. Nothing says flake more than some one who comes back and tries to renegotiate after having agreed to a deal.  We have had people do that to us several times and in all cases we did not end up employing them.

[🏀]

I had an intern try to pull this back in April. Said he had an offer from a direct competitor, I operate in an open bidding environment. We were 50/50 on this Platteville savant to begin with and I told him we were no longer interested.

Ran into a manager of the competitor at a conference in May and asked how the intern was doing. He had no idea what I was talking about. Never heard of the kid. Heard he ended up taking a job with Lafayette County, a job posted with a starting salary 18% less than our offer.

[rocket surgeon]

To any of you guys out there, has your experience been to respectfully offer exit interviews to exiting employees or does one have to consent to one or are they not all that common today?  Has anyone given an exit interview?

[Benny B]

To any of you guys out there, has your experience been to respectfully offer exit interviews to exiting employees or does one have to consent to one or are they not all that common today?  Has anyone given an exit interview?

I once dated a girl who worked in HR for a major corporation... part of her job was to conduct exit interviews.  I recall her saying they were completely voluntary and the no-show rate was actually slightly greater for those who quit than those who were fired.

In any event, I would suspect an exit interview isn’t going to be of much benefit unless you have properly trained personnel to conduct them. 

[rocket surgeon]

I once dated a girl who worked in HR for a major corporation... part of her job was to conduct exit interviews.  I recall her saying they were completely voluntary and the no-show rate was actually slightly greater for those who quit than those who were fired.

In any event, I would suspect an exit interview isn’t going to be of much benefit unless you have properly trained personnel to conduct them.

Thanks Benny. My thinking was that this would be the last ditch effort to keep an employee that say, unexpectedly was leaving you, caught you by total surprise and then, allow you( the boss) to wish them well and leave the door open for possibly a future opportunity should things change

My experience with one was a hygienist whom I couldn’t quite offer the hours she needed to pay the bills.  I totally understood and we had a very pleasant “exit interview” if you want to call it that.  She ended up staying in touch, subbing for my other hygienist on vacation or sick time or just other times I needed the extra help.  Well, not to long after she “left” me, I was able to hire her back, full time With the hours she needed

[forgetful]

IMO, I think you lost that option once you accepted the position.  If you did this post-offer, but before acceptance, I think it would be fine.  But I would find it in poor taste if someone came back to me at that point.

I agree with this, but will also add that Chili is right.

You lost your window to negotiate in good faith with the new employer the moment you accepted the offer. 

But, that opens a door with the current employer.  If you would consider staying where you are, you need to make sure your current employer puts their money where their mouth is.  Ask for a big raise.  Find a number that would entice you to say, and ask for it.  Worst case, they laugh at you, and you move on to the job you accepted/wanted anyway. 

In my industry, they only way you get a raise is to get an offer from somewhere else.

[MU82]

Take the new job but pout and threaten to hold out if they don't give you a long-term contract. Then, if you get a paper cut and have to miss some time at work, flip everybody the bird on the way out the door.

*Pulled from the Earl Thomas Employee Manual

[Benny B]

In my industry, they only way you get a raise is to get an offer from somewhere else.

As they say... pimpin’ ain’t easy.

[MUfan12]

As someone who manages recruitment in the technical space, I cannot believe some of the stuff candidates are pulling. But, demand is high enough so they can get away with it.

But yeah don't ask for more money. That's not gonna start things off well and could really backfire. You could use it as a little leverage for things like PTO.