Hardship Granted to Cheatham

[GGGG]

I would've loved to see HC stay here and hate to see a kid put in a situation where he needs to exercise a hardship transfer......but, those game minutes should certainly help this year, and beyond, for Sacar and others.

Yeah I don't think he was a big loss.  Wish him well though.

[Nukem2]

What's your hangup with the Georgia game? Our defense was better than normal vs. them, and only 6'8" senior stud Yante Maten led them with only 13 pts.

The issue in that game was we shot like crap (except for Markus). Other than M2N, we shot 4/19 ** on two-pointers **. That's putrid. Rowsey 1/6 (also had 6 TOs).. Matt Heldt was 0/6!!! His season 2FG% would have been 5% higher had it not been for that game.

Just couldn't buy a bucket. It was last season's low for our eFG%. That was the issue, not HC. Outside of Markus, that's about as bad as our shooting could have been. Don't know why you're trying to tie it into HC.

Were you there?  Whatever the stats, we were over matched physically on the perimeter.  That was simply a humongous game to lose at home.  Back to Haani, we simply were not ready for that game with his departure.   The eye test for that game  simply showed what you are telling us in the historical stats.  Many of us saw it unfolding before our eyes stat man.

[Jay Bee]

Were you there?  Whatever the stats, we were over matched physically on the perimeter.  That was simply a humongous game to lose at home.  Back to Haani, we simply were not ready for that game with his departure.   The eye test for that game  simply showed what you are telling us in the historical stats.  Many of us saw it unfolding before our eyes stat man.

lol, ok bud.

[Nukem2]

lol, ok bud.

same to you bud.  Do you get to the games?  There are reasons why the stats end up where they do.

[Jay Bee]

same to you bud.  Do you get to the games?

Are you asserting that a person can't understand Marquette basketball unless they physically attend a lot of home games? I've probably missed viewing an average of 0.5 games per season for the last several years...

Not that it counts for anything with you - Mr. Be At Home Games Or You Don't Know Jack! - but I did view HC numerous times in various states while he was in high school, including when I drove over to his tournament while I was in Florida for.... Marquette's tournament. Were you there as well? Speaking of Sacar, watched him many times in person in multiple states, on different teams (e.g., HS, travel). How about you?

MU lost the Georgia game because they shot like absolute crap. They did not lose because of HC. Even those who saw it while physically attending the game know that. 

[Lennys Tap]

Yeah I don't think he was a big loss.  Wish him well though.

+1

[GGGG]

Just remember, Nukem has a history of asserting that his eye test....excuse me....how he *remembers* his eye test, trumps all stats.

I watched the game.  It was MU's worst shooting game of the year.  But UGA apparently "overmatched" MU on the perimeter by shooting 28% from 3 and 48% from 2.  Uh...OK.

[Nukem2]

Just remember, Nukem has a history of asserting that his eye test....excuse me....how he *remembers* his eye test, trumps all stats.

I watched the game.  It was MU's worst shooting game of the year.  But UGA apparently "overmatched" MU on the perimeter by shooting 28% from 3 and 48% from 2.  Uh...OK.

Sorry, MU was out physicalled on the perimeter in that game.  Really struggled to get good looks.  The stats just show that.  Were you there?  TV does not give one that aspect.

[MuMark]

I was at the game. Here is my recollection

Markus got into foul trouble and we really struggled to score without him.on the floor.
Rowsey was horrible.
We were physically  over matched by a bigger stronger Georgia team that played very good defense all year. The overmatched part was not just on the perimeter. They were stronger and tougher 1-5.

It was one of the ugliest games of the year with bad turnovers and missed shots.

With all that said I was amazed that we were still within 3 or 4 points with a minute or so left.

Ps I personally don't think Cheatham would have made the difference but we will obviously never know.

[jsglow]

I was at the game.  I don't remember much of anything.   

[Nukem2]

I was at the game. Here is my recollection

Markus got into foul trouble and we really struggled to score without him.on the floor.
Rowsey was horrible.
We were physically  over matched by a bigger stronger Georgia team that played very good defense all year. The overmatched part was not just on the perimeter. They were stronger and tougher 1-5.

It was one of the ugliest games of the year with bad turnovers and missed shots.

With all that said I was amazed that we were still within 3 or 4 points with a minute or so left.

Ps I personally don't think Cheatham would have made the difference but we will obviously never know.

Not just Cheatham, it was the whole lack of rythym to the back court in that game.  It was a learning experience with, unfortunately, a loss.  Haani, though, certainly would have brought length and size on the perimeter.  But, we will never know what might have been.  One does have to wonder, though.

[MU82]

Let's say we beat Georgia if Haani plays instead of Anim.

OK, I'm on board. Sure. Now ...

If Haani plays instead of Anim, we lose at Creighton.

Hell, maybe if Haani plays all season, we lose 5 more games than we did for all kinds of reasons, including that he couldn't totally focus on basketball.

I know throwing out dopey hypotheticals is what we do - I'm guilty sometimes, too - but the "we would have won this game or that game if only we had Haani" argument ... please.

[brewcity77]

The eye test for that game  simply showed what you are telling us in the historical stats.  Many of us saw it unfolding before our eyes stat man.

The more you try to defend your eye test, the more it seems you really need a new glasses prescription.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Haani, for whatever reasons, had a Value Add of 0.04 when he left. Harry was better at 0.17. Magic Dawson was 0.32 his freshman year. It was quite clear in Maui that Sacar and the frosh were going to get more of his minutes from that time on.

Best of luck to him and I hope he took his time away from the game to get things on the right track for himself.

http://valueaddbasketball.com/ballall.html

[GGGG]

Sorry, MU was out physicalled on the perimeter in that game.  Really struggled to get good looks.  The stats just show that.  Were you there?  TV does not give one that aspect.

LOL STFU with that.  TV gives you plenty.

[Nukem2]

LOL STFU with that.  TV gives you plenty.

You need to resort to foul language?   Sad.

[GGGG]

You need to resort to foul language?   Sad.

Yeah.  It emphasizes the lameness of your point. 

[Nukem2]

Yeah.  It emphasizes the lameness of your point.

Its easier to gauge the physicality of a game in person.  You are missing the point.  Have a great day. 

[GGGG]

Its easier to gauge the physicality of a game in person.  You are missing the point.  Have a great day. 

Not really.  But keep dying on your dumb hill.

[Nukem2]

Not really.  But keep dying on your dumb hill.

Hmm..it really is difficult for you to discuss things without posturing and making demeaning comments.  In any event, MU did miss Haani in that GA game.  The GA guards were nothing special, but they imposed their physicality on the smallish MU guards.  I watched a replay of that game and that was not as obvious on the screen as it was in person.  Have a great day. 

[GGGG]

Hmm..it really is difficult for you to discuss things without posturing and making demeaning comments.

It's not difficult.  I oftentimes prefer to do so however.

[Its DJOver]

The counter argument is that his staying would have stunted the development of Cain and GE.    I acknowledge there is validity there.   But, when everyone was screaming to bench Rowsey because of his defense, who would have been more effective, junior Haanif or freshman GE?

In an attempt to prevent this thread from getting locked, I'm going to come back to this.  All three Freshman made tremendous strides through the season, and I think getting them to take the next step is being undervalued when considering the potential success of next years team.  For the most part, we know what we're going to get out of JC, M2N, Sam, Ed, and Matt (IMO the starting 5), but if any of the Freshman or Sophomores can take a significant jump we will be in much better shape IMO.

Comparing HC freshman campaign to Greg, Jamal, and Theo, Haanif had the best one, and after one year I thought he would have the biggest impact out of anyone in his class, but he couldn't take the next step and evolve as a Sophomore, and once teams figured out that he could only go left, his impact dropped significantly.  Seeing the way the Greg, Jamal, and Theo improved during the season gives me hope that they can keep their momentum and not run into the Sophomore wall that so many players do.  If they can continue to develop at the same pace they did during the season last year (which is in part due to the extra minutes they got from HC leaving), they will be in position to be high impact players by the time they are upperclassmen.

[Nukem2]

It's not difficult.  I oftentimes prefer to do so however.

There ya go...  . 

[MUfan12]

Haanif not being there didn't make Markus pick up two quick fouls in 90 seconds. Also, doubt he helps much in the outside shooting department.

I can see an argument for losing a veteran contributor right before throwing off the chemistry a bit, but that's impossible to prove.

Ultimately, his departure gave Greg and Jamal an opportunity, and that's a net positive IMO.

[Nukem2]

Haanif not being there didn't make Markus pick up two quick fouls in 90 seconds. Also, doubt he helps much in the outside shooting department.

I can see an argument for losing a veteran contributor right before throwing off the chemistry a bit, but that's impossible to prove.

Ultimately, his departure gave Greg and Jamal an opportunity, and that's a net positive IMO.

True, the frosh received a great opportunity. and that helped their development.  Though, Haani was missed in certain games like GA.  Maybe it can’t be proved, but doubt that it would have hurt.