Pennsylvania Grand Jury report on abuse

[Jockey]

Fact.  Before my 11 year old was baptized, and after nearly 15 years of marriage, the then new pastor of our parish was going to refuse to baptize him because my wife and I had not gotten married in a Catholic Church. Talk about silly.  I had an enjoyable 20 minutes insulting everything about that and trying to get him to answer whether my then 12 year old daughter's baptism was legitimate.   Ultimately, I jumped through the hoop.  But letting my post childbirth bride know that according to the church I could walk away clean was probably not wise.

But it probably seemed pretty funny at the time.

[naginiF]

Fact.  Before my 11 year old was baptized, and after nearly 15 years of marriage, the then new pastor of our parish was going to refuse to baptize him because my wife and I had not gotten married in a Catholic Church. Talk about silly.  I had an enjoyable 20 minutes insulting everything about that and trying to get him to answer whether my then 12 year old daughter's baptism was legitimate.   Ultimately, I jumped through the hoop. But letting my post childbirth bride know that according to the church I could walk away clean was probably not wise.

Are you saying the Catholic church doesn't recognize vows taken outside the church as valid marriages?  I thought/assumed they just didn't recognize them as checking off the 'marriage as a sacrament' box, but they were still valid marriages. 

[Benny B]

No problem.  And I am glad it was helpful.  I think a lot of the misunderstandings are because things are worded very particularly and that causes confusion.

To address the bolded, it is also my understanding that the Catholic Church recognizes all Christian Baptisms as validly Sacramental.

Except the Mormons. 

Are you saying the Catholic church doesn't recognize vows taken outside the church as valid marriages?  I thought/assumed they just didn't recognize them as checking off the 'marriage as a sacrament' box, but they were still valid marriages. 

You assumption is correct.  If you've been married by another denominational church previously, but want to remarry in the Catholic Church, you still need to get the previous marriage annulled or whatever the denomination's equivalent of annulment is. So it's recognized.

However, if you were married by a justice of the peace, you are considered unmarried by Catholic doctrine and may be married or remarried in the church at your heart's content.

[naginiF]

You assumption is correct.  If you've been married by another denominational church previously, but want to remarry in the Catholic Church, you still need to get the previous marriage annulled or whatever the denomination's equivalent of annulment is. So it's recognized.

However, if you were married by a justice of the peace, you are considered unmarried by Catholic doctrine and may be married or remarried in the church at your heart's content.

Thank you, i didn't know that.  I was baffled that it took my father-in-law so long to warm up to our wedding ceremony.  I just assumed that it was then that he realized I was atheist, it was probably that plus his view that we were not having a "real" wedding (especially since a friend performed the ceremony and not even a JP). 

[tower912]

That should be a thread.  Stupid stuff we said to our spouses that was really funny in our heads but less so when our spouses heard it.

[Jockey]

That should be a thread.  Stupid stuff we said to our spouses that was really funny in our heads but less so when our spouses heard it.

Yeah, it was funny when we said it and funny now. Right after we said those things?

Not so much.

Women just don't have a sense of humor. If you don't believe that, just say it to your wife. She'll prove you right

[tower912]

Part of the wife handbook is the eye roll with the sideways glare of utter contempt.  I thank God every day that the pool of available middle aged men worth replacing me with is nearly nonexistent.

[buckchuckler]

I thank God every day that the pool of available middle aged men worth replacing me with is nearly nonexistent.

Hahahahah!  Amen brother!

[mu03eng]

For someone who's "not judging it" this post contains an awful lot of judgement.

Where you stand depends on where you sit

[muwarrior69]

It is only getting worse.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/george-neumayr-cdl-wuerl-is-even-now-covering-up-for-a-priest-who-abused-te

[barfolomew]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but we had a Marquette mention today:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-midwest-jesuits-abusers-list-released-20181207-story.html

No names given in the article (or details of any kind, really), but at some point after 1955, two Jesuits with credible accusations of abuse had been assigned to MU.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Here's the list referenced in the article.

http://jesuitscentralsouthern.org/Story?Feature=-List-of-Jesuits-with-Credible-Accusations-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-a-Minor&TN=PROJECT-20181130120107050811032329

The two Jesuits at Marquette were:

Burton J Fraser, born 1899, ordained 1935, estimated time frame of abuse 1950s, died in 1971 before being removed from ministry.

Francis Landwermeyer, born 1934, ordained 1966, estimated time frame of abuse 1960s/70s, removed from ministry in 2010, died in 2018.

I don't have data on when they were at Marquette. Anyone happen to know them?

There were also two at Marquette High.

[jesmu84]

Didn't know where else to put this...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vatican-no-3-cardinal-george-pell-on-trial-for-historical-child-sex-charges

[jsglow]

Didn't know where else to put this...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vatican-no-3-cardinal-george-pell-on-trial-for-historical-child-sex-charges

The smoke just keeps billowing from an institution corrupt to its core.