Does Urban Meyer get fired at OSU?

[mu03eng]

I completely agree with not wanting to get into which type of abuse is "worse." Honestly though, I'd be lying if I said that my take isn't probably impacted by that. I acknowledge that may speak to my internalizing domestic abuse as "not as bad" which may be a blind spot on my part. But that being said -

I think the underlying crime, the identity of the victim(s), and the employer's role in bringing those victims to the perpetrator all play a role here.  Assuming the worst in both cases, Sandusky's employment at PSU played a not-insignificant part in enabling his crimes. They happened on campus, and his role at PSU provided him access to minors who became his victims. I'm not defending Urban (or Smith) any more than you're defending Paterno (or Sandusky) but I think the nature of Smith's alleged crimes are more detached from his employment/tOSU than Sandusky's were from PSU.

All fair and reasonable. There is some question if Smith's attachment to Florida/tOSU program influenced how the incidents were handled by police, but that's probably not fair to bring up at this point.

The thing I keep coming back to in terms of a "cover up", for lack of a better term, is that Urban and his wife, by his own admission, counciled Smith and his then pregnant wife after the 2009 assault. Smith goes and does it again in 2015, it's clear Mrs. Urban knows, and yet nothing is done about it....that's straight up enabling right? It is one victim against many but it's still enablement.

[DegenerateDish]

My observances about Urban Meyer suggest that he has a singular focus (winning the next thing) and that he's not a great long-term thinker.  Honestly I don't think he's a very intelligent individual.

Agreed, there's really not much depth there with him.

[MerrittsMustache]

According to Dan Wetzel, Urban is meeting with AD Gene Smith at some point today.

[JWags85]

According to Dan Wetzel, Urban is meeting with AD Gene Smith at some point today.

Gotta make sure your stories align properly!

[Mr. Nielsen]

Placed on administrative leave.

[Mr. Nielsen]

-Why would Meyer risk losing his job over this wide receivers coach?

He is the nephew of Earle Bruce.

[Lennys Tap]

Honestly I'd love to see the reasoning here. Independent of the type of crime committed by a subordinate (I will not engage on which is "worse", both are awful, full stop), what is demonstrably different in the two situations? They were each informed of at least once incident of the crime in question and failed to follow up or do more than pass it up the chain, there is also strong evidence that there was at least one other incident that they were/should have been aware which creates a pattern of crimes that should have been a giant red flag.

This is not a Paterno defense, this is more a question of how is what is alleged of Urban different than Paterno?

I think that in most instances child rape is worse than spousal abuse. I can't fathom how anyone would feel otherwise.

[Jockey]

I think that in most instances child rape is worse than spousal abuse. I can't fathom how anyone would feel otherwise.

I agree, Lenny - a matter of degrees.

But, I think Eng is right, in that if Urban gets fired, it will be for a similar reason as JoPa. The crimes that the underlings committed were vastly different, but both guys failed to exercise proper oversight and judgement.

[Lennys Tap]

I agree, Lenny - a matter of degrees.

But, I think Eng is right, in that if Urban gets fired, it will be for a similar reason as JoPa. The crimes that the underlings committed were vastly different, but both guys failed to exercise proper oversight and judgement.

True, but there's at least a chance (1 in a 1000, 1 in a 1,000,000?) that there could be extenuating or conflicting circumstances in a spousal abuse case. Child rape? No.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think that in most instances child rape is worse than spousal abuse. I can't fathom how anyone would feel otherwise.

I disagree Lenny. Both are horrendous acts born out of evil that defy comparison. Both are deserving of the highest level of condemnation. I can't fathom how anyone would feel otherwise. I say this as someone who works with survivors of both on a daily basis.

[warriorchick]

True, but there's at least a chance (1 in a 1000, 1 in a 1,000,000?) that there could be extenuating or conflicting circumstances in a spousal abuse case.

Care to elaborate?

[Lennys Tap]

Care to elaborate?

Sure. I know of an instance where in a contentious divorce case spousal abuse was alleged. Turned out to be serious arguing (back and forth) but nothing physical.

[Jockey]

I disagree Lenny. Both are horrendous acts born out of evil that defy comparison. Both are deserving of the highest level of condemnation. I can't fathom how anyone would feel otherwise. I say this as someone who works with survivors of both on a daily basis.

I gotta side with Lenny here, TAMU.

You are correct that both are horrendous and no mercy should be shown to the perpetrator. But, sexually attacking children just seems worse than any crime known to man.

[Lennys Tap]

I disagree Lenny. Both are horrendous acts born out of evil that defy comparison. Both are deserving of the highest level of condemnation. I can't fathom how anyone would feel otherwise. I say this as someone who works with survivors of both on a daily basis.

If I'm wrong on the law, I apologize and admit I'm wrong, but can't a wife who hits or slaps her husband be charged with spousal abuse? To me that's less awful than an adult raping a child.

[warriorchick]

Sure. I know of an instance where in a contentious divorce case spousal abuse was alleged. Turned out to be serious arguing (back and forth) but nothing physical.

That's alleged abuse.  You said there were cases with extenuating circumstances.  That implies that spousal abuse itself is not so bad in certain circumstances.

And why do we need to argue the relative levels of evil here?  Are any of you actually going with, "Yeah, he beat up his wife, but at least he didn't rape a kid"?

[Mutaman]

Sure. I know of an instance where in a contentious divorce case spousal abuse was alleged. Turned out to be serious arguing (back and forth) but nothing physical.

And Woody Allen was accused of child abuse but the prosecutor declined to press charges. So what? Agree that arguing the "relative levels of evil" between spousal abuse and child abuse is pretty unnecessary. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If I'm wrong on the law, I apologize and admit I'm wrong, but can't a wife who hits or slaps her husband be charged with spousal abuse? To me that's less awful than an adult raping a child.

If that's what you meant than we are in agreement. The implication I got from your original post was beating/raping your spouse isn't as evil as raping a child. For me, they are both the highest forms of despicable and should be condemned equally. In this specific case, there are photos of injuries and allegations of years of physical violence. The victim described one instance as him picking her up off the ground by her neck, slamming her against a wall, and holding her there. There is no defense for that.

[Mutaman]

Actually Lenny may have stumbled on a defense that both Jim Jordan and Urban Meyer can use:

"Hey we're not as bad as child rapers. Go Buckeyes". 

[GGGG]

Sure. I know of an instance where in a contentious divorce case spousal abuse was alleged. Turned out to be serious arguing (back and forth) but nothing physical.

Yeah you mixed up your words there that made this sound different.

You could have false accusations of child molestation as well.

[Benny B]

Instead of arguing over which is worse, spousal abuse or child rape, how about you guys concentrate back on the real torpedo that's about to sink the SS Meyer:

OSU conducted an investigation without so much as interviewing the victim.


Haven't picked up a Webster's lately, but pretty damn certain that's - at best - the definition of a cover up, and - at worst - a conspiracy.

[mu03eng]

Instead of arguing over which is worse, spousal abuse or child rape, how about you guys concentrate back on the real torpedo that's about to sink the SS Meyer:

OSU conducted an investigation without so much as interviewing the victim.


Haven't picked up a Webster's lately, but pretty damn certain that's - at best - the definition of a cover up, and - at worst - a conspiracy.

That torpedo is destined for SS Gene Smith.....and there is a torpedo headed for Mike Drake if tOSU reacts by doing an internal investigation as opposed to turning it over to a third party (though I would strongly recommend against Louis Freeh).

Meyer is going to get sunk for either lying or for not reporting(Title IX violation)....I'm fairly confident he gowne at this point.

[GGGG]

That torpedo is destined for SS Gene Smith.....and there is a torpedo headed for Mike Drake if tOSU reacts by doing an internal investigation as opposed to turning it over to a third party (though I would strongly recommend against Louis Freeh).

Meyer is going to get sunk for either lying or for not reporting(Title IX violation)....I'm fairly confident he gowne at this point.

Or he'll throw his wife under the bus and it will be basically a sham of an investigation.  (Throwing his wife under the bus is probably a poor analogy in this case, but I'm sticking with it.)

[mu03eng]

Or he'll throw his wife under the bus and it will be basically a sham of an investigation.  (Throwing his wife under the bus is probably a poor analogy in this case, but I'm sticking with it.)

I don't think there is anyway he can throw his wife under the bus that doesn't take him with it. She knew, he has referred to her as a co-coach, other coaches wives knew....there is no plausible scenario where he doesn't know. He either gets $hitcanned for lying and making the university look bad or because he failed to report a Title IX investigation. Plus as far as I can tell, SS Mrs Meyer also has Title IX reporting obligations so she could be sued, etc.

The only possible way he could "escape" is if he actually did report it(2015)  and tOSU kicked it meaning he later just lied about knowing it. Then the whole university is going down, but hey he did "something" about a domestic abuser.

[Benny B]

Or he'll throw his wife under the bus and it will be basically a sham of an investigation.  (Throwing his wife under the bus is probably a poor analogy in this case, but I'm sticking with it.)

I see what you did there.  Well played.

[Babybluejeans]

That torpedo is destined for SS Gene Smith.....and there is a torpedo headed for Mike Drake if tOSU reacts by doing an internal investigation as opposed to turning it over to a third party (though I would strongly recommend against Louis Freeh).

Meyer is going to get sunk for either lying or for not reporting(Title IX violation)....I'm fairly confident he gowne at this point.

As well he should be. I recall seeing an HBO Real Sports with him, and they kept trying to project some kind of depth or thoughtfulness on him. It didn't work. He came across as bland and a complete prisoner to his unconscious impulse to win college football games at any cost. This is a completely unsurprising outcome.

That said, he'll be coaching at Bowling Green within three years.