University of Chicago Drops SAT, ACT Requirement for Admissions

[StillAWarrior]

I had never been west of Lancaster, PA until my parents drove me from Connecticut to Milwaukee for freshman orientation, which back then took place 2-3 days before classes began.

My parents didn't even take me.  Flight to Milwaukee; cab to McCormick.  I was extraordinarily grateful to some kid name "Sal" who helped me drag my suitcase and foot locker out of the cab and into a blue bin.  Funny that I still remember that name all these years later...I literally never saw him again after the stuff was in the bin.  The whole thing was kind of overwhelming for a small-town kid.

[StillAWarrior]

I absolutely will defer to those who have been part of the process more recently and/or dealt with larger schools. I'm wondering if the small liberal-arts colleges like those my daughter applied to in the mid-00s still commonly have face-to-face meetings with applicants.

I would think that the significant improvements in on-line teleconference technology would make it pretty simple for schools to increase the use of interviews.  I know that as my son has sought internships the last couple years, many companies are using video interviews as a first step.  Some are even having applicants use video to record answers to written questions rather than actual live video interviews.  Also, some companies apparently run those videos through programs that purport to analyze voice, body language, etc.

[dgies9156]

My parents didn't even take me.  Flight to Milwaukee; cab to McCormick.

Same here. If I was mature enough to attend college, my parents figured I was mature enough to get on a plane, navigate my way through O'Hare to a connection to MKE and find my way to McCormick. Which I did.

My daughter visited three colleges, all of which had programs that were specific to her needs and desires. One was eliminated immediately because their academic program wasn't going to help her; one was eliminated because she didn't like running into an old high school acquaintance on her visit; which, left the third, where she went. During our visits to the third school (there were two), we met with program leaders, support staff and others to gauge her interest and engagement.

My son saw my daughter's experience and followed her two years later. We offered to look at two other schools but he all but threw something at us at the idea. One of the two was private and would cost about $15,000 more than where he went for an education that might not have been as good.

A school choice is only as good as two things. The first is the ability to provide the student what he or she needs so they can graduate. The second is to give them a commitment to lifelong learning so they will get and keep a professional job.

[StillAWarrior]

My daughter visited three colleges, all of which had programs that were specific to her needs and desires. One was eliminated immediately because their academic program wasn't going to help her; one was eliminated because she didn't like running into an old high school acquaintance on her visit; which, left the third, where she went. During our visits to the third school (there were two), we met with program leaders, support staff and others to gauge her interest and engagement.

My son saw my daughter's experience and followed her two years later. We offered to look at two other schools but he all but threw something at us at the idea. One of the two was private and would cost about $15,000 more than where he went for an education that might not have been as good.

My son visited a number of schools, and applied to even more.  Got accepted to the school that he wanted to attend and was invited to a weekend where he did have a face-to-face interview for their honors program.  But that was after he had been accepted, and was related to potential aid.  That was the first time he had visited, but he was sold on it before we even got there.  My daughter had a completely different experience in that she only applied to one school that she had visited 3-4 times.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Gotcha.  Yeah...we were talking about different things.  My kids visited most of the schools where they applied (and then some).  Ironically, my son ended up at one of the schools he never visited before applying.

your kid is Jimmy F*ckin Butler?  sweet.

[GOO]

Reviews on cars/resturants are largely different than college acceptance rates. Lol

Agreed, they are.  But the point remains that the reality is that US News and to a lessor extent a few other ratings services are what consumers look to for the quality of a college... so ignore the consumer and call them dumb, who does that hurt. 

The relevancy I am pointing out between different businesses and how consumers judge them is what consumers look to, and calling the consumer dumb is only going to hurt your business/school if you don't market to the reality.  If your a restaurant you had better pay attention to yelp.  If your a college you had better pay attention to US News.  To do otherwise if silly.

[GGGG]

Agreed, they are.  But the point remains that the reality is that US News and to a lessor extent a few other ratings services are what consumers look to for the quality of a college... so ignore the consumer and call them dumb, who does that hurt. 

The relevancy I am pointing out between different businesses and how consumers judge them is what consumers look to, and calling the consumer dumb is only going to hurt your business/school if you don't market to the reality.  If your a restaurant you had better pay attention to yelp.  If your a college you had better pay attention to US News.  To do otherwise if silly.

Colleges and universities are institutions of higher education that should not be pandering to irrelevant data.  It's anti-intellectual.

Believe me, there are plenty of ways that colleges and universities can market themselves to get the class that they want without resorting to this sh*t. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Agreed, they are.  But the point remains that the reality is that US News and to a lessor extent a few other ratings services are what consumers look to for the quality of a college... so ignore the consumer and call them dumb, who does that hurt. 

The relevancy I am pointing out between different businesses and how consumers judge them is what consumers look to, and calling the consumer dumb is only going to hurt your business/school if you don't market to the reality.  If your a restaurant you had better pay attention to yelp.  If your a college you had better pay attention to US News.  To do otherwise if silly.

Do yelp ratings improve if you convince people to come to your restaurant but then turn them away because the restaurant is full?

[StillAWarrior]

Colleges and universities are institutions of higher education that should not be pandering to irrelevant data.  It's anti-intellectual.

Well that is an extremely idealistic statement, that I genuinely wish would guide a lot more of their actions.  Understand that in saying that, I'm neither criticizing Marquette for it's current approach nor defending the US News and similar rankings.  At all.  I just think that colleges and universities do countless things that are far more focused on consumer appeal than intellectual pursuits.  One of the biggest, by the way, is what draws us all to Scoop to engage in inane arguments.

[4everwarriors]

Colleges and universities are institutions of higher education that should not be pandering to irrelevant data.  It's anti-intellectual.

Believe me, there are plenty of ways that colleges and universities can market themselves to get the class that they want without resorting to this sh*t.

Gotta figure your institution is wey down in da rankin's based on yo distain for da process, hey?

[Disco Hippie]

Well that is an extremely idealistic statement, that I genuinely wish would guide a lot more of their actions.  Understand that in saying that, I'm neither criticizing Marquette for it's current approach nor defending the US News and similar rankings.  At all.  I just think that colleges and universities do countless things that are far more focused on consumer appeal than intellectual pursuits.  One of the biggest, by the way, is what draws us all to Scoop to engage in inane arguments.

Marquette clearly isn't and obviously shares the Sultan's idealism.  Refer to page 3 of the attached PDF from MU's office of institutional research to see how they compare to their self selected peer institutions.   If they can continue to remain a desirable institution despite their extremely unconventional and counter intuitive approach to enrollment, more power to them!  I would love to be wrong and hope MU continues to thrive.  It will be interesting to see if and if so, how much of a hit they take when the 2019 US News National University rankings come out in September.   If they maintain their current place or even better, move up a few slots I'll gladly eat crow and kneel before Sultan. 

[GGGG]

Gotta figure your institution is wey down in da rankin's based on yo distain for da process, hey?

We don't reply to the USN&WR survey and have no idea where we are ranked.  We don't really care.  We have record enrollment, record graduation rates and place 90+% of our graduates into jobs in their field of study or in graduate/professional school.

[MU82]

We don't reply to the USN&WR survey and have no idea where we are ranked.  We don't really care.  We have record enrollment, record graduation rates and place 90+% of our graduates into jobs in their field of study or in graduate/professional school.

Yep. Methinks some of our fellow Scoopers need to take their angst over to the Doom thread.

[Herman Cain]

Gotta figure your institution is wey down in da rankin's based on yo distain for da process, hey?

We don't reply to the USN&WR survey and have no idea where we are ranked.  We don't really care.  We have record enrollment, record graduation rates and place 90+% of our graduates into jobs in their field of study or in graduate/professional school.

Obviously you know where your institution is ranked. Glad that your marketing program is successful. There is a cover for every pot. Your institution is not Marquette which has different requirements. The MU administration are slowly sinking the ship and have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

[GGGG]

Obviously you know where your institution is ranked.

I literally have no idea.

I hate to break this to you but not every schools is obsessed with these rankings.

[Herman Cain]

I literally have no idea.

I hate to break this to you but not every schools is obsessed with these rankings.

Type your schools name followed by US News Ranking and you will get the answer. I read Playboy for the articles too.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

We don't reply to the USN&WR survey and have no idea where we are ranked.  We don't really care.  We have record enrollment, record graduation rates and place 90+% of our graduates into jobs in their field of study or in graduate/professional school.

The IU/PU system is doing well, aina, kin?

[Herman Cain]

I literally have no idea.

I hate to break this to you but not every schools is obsessed with these rankings.

Here is a research report that essentially outlines a position similar to the one you are advocating for your school. Are the points that are being made in the report similar to your schools viewpoint internally ?
https://www.liberalartscolleges.com/us-news-college-rankings-meaningless/

 

[GGGG]

Here is a research report that essentially outlines a position similar to the one you are advocating for your school. Are the points that are being made in the report similar to your schools viewpoint internally ?
https://www.liberalartscolleges.com/us-news-college-rankings-meaningless/

I think a lot of the reasoning under "The College Rankings Have Missing Pieces" is why we don't participate.

[Disco Hippie]

Here is a research report that essentially outlines a position similar to the one you are advocating for your school. Are the points that are being made in the report similar to your schools viewpoint internally ?
https://www.liberalartscolleges.com/us-news-college-rankings-meaningless/

Don't disagree with anything said in this report or the other articles it linked to.  However, There were 2 quotes in particular in 2 different linked articles that stuck out:

1) At colleges across the nation, presidents and their staffs, trustees and special university task forces analyze one year's U.S. News charts and immediately begin plotting how they might raise their college's standing in the next issue. This is not surprising; the results of a rise in rank are significant, and the consequences of a dramatic fall can be severe.

2)That dirty little secret has started to slip out as competition intensifies to attract top students and scale the all-important college rankings. In an admissions battleground on which universities grapple for any advantage, rising by just one number in the U.S. News & World Report rankings leads to a nearly 1 percent increase in applications, a 2011 study at the Harvard Business School found.

Even though these articles are a few years old, my understanding is that the calculus hasn't changed and if anything has gotten worse.  How else to explain the fact that for the past 5 years the most prestigious schools such as Harvard, Stanford and their ilk have all seen increased applications resulting in lower and lower acceptance rates?

I've never denied the US News Methodology is deeply flawed, panned by most higher education professionals, yet the overwhelming majority of them still do everything they can to game the system so their institutions rank as high as possible because the rewards of moving up and consequences of slipping are potentially severe.  That's the concern.

I'll say one thing........For all my complaining about how MU doesn't play the game, they deserve a hell of a lot of credit for being incredibly courageous and remaining true to their Jesuit mission.  I'm betting that their approach will backfire and damage their reputation but who knows,   Maybe MU will be successful in convincing the higher education consumer at large that US News is nonsense.  Here's to hoping I'm wrong.   We'll see how they stack up soon enough.

[theBabyDavid]

Back in 2004-05, when my daughter was going around looking at small midwest colleges like Carleton, Grinnell, Lawrence and Dennison, she met with admission people at several schools, and even a couple of deans and university presidents.

A few weeks after her Carleton visit, she received a personal call from the head of admissions inviting her to go there even though she had "only" scored 30 on her ACT. And it wasn't because her daddy was rich or because she was a minority. She made an impression on people there. Ended up not going there because it was too expensive and Lawrence offered a lot more aid, but Carleton often is rated in the top-5 in most of those U.S. News ratings.

But I dunno ... maybe they don't do those kinds of things any more, though. I've been out of the game for quite some time, so others would know better than I do.

Those are all excellent schools. I think that smaller schools have the opportunity to use personal interviews to not only screen but also to help market the product to potential enrollees. I think competition for top talent is greater today than ever before and it is even more extreme at top tier schools such as those you listed.

I do know that Ivies have always used alumni screenings to evaluate potential applicants and that this feedback is weighted very heavily. I think schools want to ensure that their pool includes well rounded applicants rather than brilliant but one-dimensional mouth-breathers. Social skills and graces are factored into the equation and they should be, quite frankly.

[theBabyDavid]

The IU/PU system is doing well, aina, kin?

I think he works at the other UIPUI - University of ITT Phoenix of Upper Indiana. Their Cable Installer Degree is only outpaced by Sanitation Engineer job placements. 

[GGGG]

I think he works at the other UIPUI - University of ITT Phoenix of Upper Indiana. Their Cable Installer Degree is only outpaced by Sanitation Engineer job placements. 

That’s not where I work, but would be proud to do so if it educates people and places them into meaningful careers.

[4everwarriors]

Bartending Academy in West Allis is hirin', hey?

[CTWarrior]

I applied at Marquette, Madison, Purdue, Notre Dame, and Embry-Riddle. I got into all of them and never set foot on campus before an acceptance letter. This was 2012. I could see face to face interviews dying as there would be a large portion of students who wouldn't be able to have the means to do all these interviews.

My son applied to a few Ivies and they found an alumnus near us to conduct the interview.  He got into every school he applied to except his first choice (which was an Ivy), despite immaculate credentials.  He must have really screwed up that interview.  That or the fact that he hit an alumnus of that school's car early in his senior year a few months after he got his driver's license.