Biggest Marquette "what if"s

[augoman]

I think if MU had gotten Scooter and Rodney McRae...,instead of Louisville.

[WarriorDad]

Okay, you caught me being facetious, the school wasn't going bankrupt, but the athletic department was definitely headed in that direction.

Remember, it was 1960, and the athletic department was at least a million in the hole, due to football.  On the upside, after dropping football, a decision was made to go big time in basketball as the only realistic option for getting the athletic department out of the hole.

Not at least a million, not even close.  Not even in the same county.  According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and the Law school, the athletic department was $50,000 in the whole due to football.  MU dropped football and track and field, despite being the largest Catholic school in the country at the time.  Despite placing 70 players in the NFL, including four that were on the lats team to play at MU.

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/11/23/more-on-marquette-football/

http://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111563979.html

I was at MU in the early 70's, wounds of football still in the memories of many professors.  MU pulled the plug, was short sighted on it.  Only two schools dropped football from 1954 to 1972 - Marquette and Detroit.  Most schools if they were going to drop did so prior to '54.  It caught everyone by surprise.  Father O'Donnell made a business decision, but it was nowhere near as dire as suggested and the way in which the school went about it was poor.  Yanking half of the scholarship of players, letting them find out the program was gone on the radio media reports - sounds like something Crean had done.  Piss poor.


In case you were wondering, $50,000 in 1960 is worth $419,258.50 in today's dollars. 

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1&year=1954

https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=100&year=1920

CNN Money says $50,000 in 1960 is worth $394K  http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/inflation-adjustment/

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Tank goodness four Georgia Tech, hey?

No chit, aina, kin.

[Herman Cain]

Not at least a million, not even close.  Not even in the same county.  According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and the Law school, the athletic department was $50,000 in the whole due to football.  MU dropped football and track and field, despite being the largest Catholic school in the country at the time.  Despite placing 70 players in the NFL, including four that were on the lats team to play at MU.

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/11/23/more-on-marquette-football/

http://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111563979.html

I was at MU in the early 70's, wounds of football still in the memories of many professors.  MU pulled the plug, was short sighted on it.  Only two schools dropped football from 1954 to 1972 - Marquette and Detroit.  Most schools if they were going to drop did so prior to '54.  It caught everyone by surprise.  Father O'Donnell made a business decision, but it was nowhere near as dire as suggested and the way in which the school went about it was poor.  Yanking half of the scholarship of players, letting them find out the program was gone on the radio media reports - sounds like something Crean had done.  Piss poor.


In case you were wondering, $50,000 in 1960 is worth $419,258.50 in today's dollars. 

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1&year=1954

https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=100&year=1920

CNN Money says $50,000 in 1960 is worth $394K  http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/inflation-adjustment/

I have always thought the decision to drop football was a poor one. The benefits of football relative to the costs weighted very much in footballs favor .

Is interesting to note that both Fordham and Villanova have revived football and the programs have been well received.

Would love to see MU have a football program. It could start out in the Pioneer league where there are no scholarships, so essentially the cost would be no different than a D3 program. Games could be played at Hart Park.

[Goose]

Late to the party here, but great thread.

4ever- Al's first game back was UNLV, but he was in the truck, not courtside.

Dr. B- I disagree on Al being burnt out as a coach. IMO, the guy was a calculating nut and figured why not roll the dice and see what he could make outside of coaching. If we had not won it all his last season I believe he would have been back coaching within three years of retiring.

I do think the UNC and Joe Wolf not coming are two very big if's. I know many here will say that it took Rick leaving for him to blossom, but that is an opinion, not fact. He very possibly would have become big time at MU with a couple of breaks.

Other two big ones to me, post Al, would like to have seen Vander play his senior year at MU. The other one, Shaka.

For the young guys, 4ever hit the big ones from the Al era. Those what ifs were differences in having another NC or two.

[tower912]

What if Dodds and IWB ran the only MU websites?

[Goose]

Archie

Walter's girlfriend did not alter his decision on coming to MU from day one. But, I agree things might have been very different if he did come from day one.

Someone mentioned Denny Crum, to me that list could be twenty guys long for that hire. That one hire changed the fate of MU ball forever.

[Galway Eagle]

Archie

Walter's girlfriend did not alter his decision on coming to MU from day one. But, I agree things might have been very different if he did come from day one.

Someone mentioned Denny Crum, to me that list could be twenty guys long for that hire. That one hire changed the fate of MU ball forever.

126-50 yet Raymond's is considered a bad hire while people look back fondly at majerus. I get he was a major let down after Al but it just doesn't make sense to me

[Goose]

Hurler

Not sure where the Rick bandwagon is on here, but probably another example of you knowing your stuff.

[GGGG]

126-50 yet Raymond's is considered a bad hire while people look back fondly at majerus. I get he was a major let down after Al but it just doesn't make sense to me

Majerus leaving Marquette was really the best thing he did for himself. 

Raymonds was just faced with the difficulties of following a legend and being not quite good enough.  (For comparison sake, my dad calls Greg Gard "UW's Hank Raymonds.")

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. B- I disagree on Al being burnt out as a coach. IMO, the guy was a calculating nut and figured why not roll the dice and see what he could make outside of coaching. If we had not won it all his last season I believe he would have been back coaching within three years of retiring.

A nice NYT article on the Al decision...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/sports/ncaabasketball/01mcguire.html

[Goose]

Dr B

That is a great article. I still believe Al was a rare bird, and had probably had multiple options in his head when he left. He loved being different and I believe that had he not won in '77 he would have coached again. Whatever the case, imo he has the coolest early retirement in college ball history.

[MU82]

A nice NYT article on the Al decision...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/sports/ncaabasketball/01mcguire.html

Great article, Doc. Thanks for posting.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Buycks was the whole team, last year

[GGGG]

Great article, Doc. Thanks for posting.

Someone mentioned that Al had a "failed" business career with Medalist.  Was it really a "failure?"  Or was it not what he thought it would be.

[Goose]

MU82

My guess is corporate life was what Al expected it to be. It probably failed him, more than he failed.

[Nukem2]

Someone mentioned that Al had a "failed" business career with Medalist.  Was it really a "failure?"  Or was it not what he thought it would be.

Probably both.  Knew some people that were at Medalist at the time.  Al just was not a corporate business guy. 

[🏀]

Probably both.  Knew some people that were at Medalist at the time.  Al just was not a corporate business guy. 

Same. I've been told Al saw corporate America as what he saw as a coach. Golfing, liquid lunches and general hob-knobing. When Al saw the real work and responsibilities of outside of the glamorous, he was over his head.

[Goose]

PTM

That is exactly what Al was hired to do. Only difference was there was time schedule, accountability and rules. Al's last decade at MU was like he was self employed. Big difference between being the man and reporting to the man. I stand by my belief that Al took the job as an out, maybe he needed a break or maybe he wanted something bigger. Winning the NC changed his life as much as it changed MU's future. This is one time Al might have outsmarted himself.

[Nukem2]

PTM

That is exactly what Al was hired to do. Only difference was there was time schedule, accountability and rules. Al's last decade at MU was like he was self employed. Big difference between being the man and reporting to the man. I stand by my belief that Al took the job as an out, maybe he needed a break or maybe he wanted something bigger. Winning the NC changed his life as much as it changed MU's future. This is one time Al might have outsmarted himself.

Yep, just not a corporate business guy.  I do think you at correct in saying that he took the job as an "out". 

[MU82]

MU82

My guess is corporate life was what Al expected it to be. It probably failed him, more than he failed.

I think you meant this to Sultan or somebody else, as I never once mentioned Al's corporate life.

[TedBaxter]

I think you have to consider the Jim Chones decision as the biggest what if in Marquette history.  Others are more speculative while MU was clearly one of the top 2-3 teams in college basketball only a couple weeks away from the NCAA tourney when Chones left.

https://www.si.com/vault/1972/02/28/565952/because-a-steering-wheel-didnt-tilt

[rocket surgeon]

Not at least a million, not even close.  Not even in the same county.  According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and the Law school, the athletic department was $50,000 in the whole due to football.  MU dropped football and track and field, despite being the largest Catholic school in the country at the time.  Despite placing 70 players in the NFL, including four that were on the lats team to play at MU.

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/11/23/more-on-marquette-football/

http://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111563979.html

I was at MU in the early 70's, wounds of football still in the memories of many professors.  MU pulled the plug, was short sighted on it.  Only two schools dropped football from 1954 to 1972 - Marquette and Detroit.  Most schools if they were going to drop did so prior to '54.  It caught everyone by surprise.  Father O'Donnell made a business decision, but it was nowhere near as dire as suggested and the way in which the school went about it was poor.  Yanking half of the scholarship of players, letting them find out the program was gone on the radio media reports - sounds like something Crean had done.  Piss poor.


In case you were wondering, $50,000 in 1960 is worth $419,258.50 in today's dollars. 

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1&year=1954

https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=100&year=1920

CNN Money says $50,000 in 1960 is worth $394K  http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/inflation-adjustment/

           wait...late 70's?  you must be chicos dad then eyn'er?

[WarriorDad]

           wait...late 70's?  you must be chicos dad then eyn'er?

Whatever you say chicos.

[Goose]

Ted

Chones leaving is a footnote to Al leaving. 22 was a top three player in school history, but Al had a ton more eligibility than Chones did.