NFL Bans Kneeling During National Anthem

[Spotcheck Billy]

[MU82]

Fines are a non-policy and a non-deterrent.

Fining a guy $1,000 or $10,000 when he makes $5 million or more ... it's like fining any of us a nickel.

Actually, I'd miss the nickel more than the $5 million athlete will miss the thou!

This was pure PR, as many of us already have said in this thread.

[tower912]

Now add:   Freedom of speech issue that was decided without a vote.     
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-nfl-owners-not-formally-vote-anthem-rule-185146376.html

[Hidden User]

Now add:   Freedom of speech issue that was decided without a vote by a handful of owners.

The NFL really knows how to trip over their own d*** like no other organization I've seen.

[Jockey]

Now add:   Freedom of speech issue that was decided without a vote.     
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-nfl-owners-not-formally-vote-anthem-rule-185146376.html

Goodell lied?

Nah, I don't believe it.

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/harveyjkaye/status/999780044636672006?s=19

[MUEng92]

The most amazing thing about this issue is that this thread hasn't been locked

[NorthernDancerColt]

One does not need to be a conspiracy theorist to realize that the most powerful man in the world is an absolute expert at deflecting attention away from his own corrupt actions, at stoking fear and resentment, and at pitting Americans against their fellow Americans.

"Divide and conquer" goes waaaay beyond Spanky. It's a Masonic right of passage.

[GGGG]

The NFL really knows how to trip over their own d*** like no other organization I've seen.

Right.  They resurrect an issue that pretty much died down, and came up with a solution that satisfied no one, then it comes out they did it haphazardly.

The NFL used to be the league that understood how to think long-term and built its brand accordingly.  Under Goodell and this crop of influential owners, they seem to just care about how to monetize everything in the short-term.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Right.  They resurrect an issue that pretty much died down, and came up with a solution that satisfied no one, then it comes out they did it haphazardly.

The NFL used to be the league that understood how to think long-term and built its brand accordingly.  Under Goodell and this crop of influential owners, they seem to just care about how to monetize everything in the short-term.

Rozelle was a marketer. Goodell is a litigator. The owners, except a few, seem to like that in Goodell.  Whether it is a catch rule, concussions, air pressure or the anthem, everything is approached how a lawyer, and not a fan, would.

[GGGG]

Rozelle was a marketer. Goodell is a litigator. The owners, except a few, seem to like that in Goodell.  Whether it is a catch rule, concussions, air pressure or the anthem, everything is approached how a lawyer, and not a fan, would.

That is a very astute observation.

[MU82]

This policy, if left unchanged before the 2018 season, is going to bite the owners in the butt (and in the wallets). It will lead to many protests ... and many orange twits.

[GGGG]

This policy, if left unchanged before the 2018 season, is going to bite the owners in the butt (and in the wallets). It will lead to many protests ... and many orange twits.

They literally just resurrected the issue for no reason.

[MU82]

They literally just resurrected the issue for no reason.

They had a reason - they wanted to put any potential problems to rest months before the season starts. They just happened to make things no better. Or even worse.

[Jockey]

They had a reason - they wanted to put any potential problems to rest months before the season starts. They just happened to make things no better. Or even worse.

One of my 1st criteria when looking at issues like this - even though I take the side of the players who want to protest - is how each side presents its arguments.

If you have to lie to get people to accept your decision, then the decision is wrong. The fact that the NFL publicly and knowingly lied about what they are choosing to do speaks volumes.

[WarriorDad]

True dat, chicos. Billionaires always follow the money. And in this situation, it's hard for me to say I blame them. I'm disappointed in them, but I don't blame them.

Thanks, chicos.  Probably puts to rest any notion that the protests were real and fans did flee watching their games.  Money talks, and if they were not seeing economic damage, they would not react and let it die on its own. 

[GGGG]

Mike Royko from 1986

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-09-10/news/8603070573_1_national-anthem-singing-high-note

[MU82]

Thanks, chicos.  Probably puts to rest any notion that the protests were real and fans did flee watching their games.  Money talks, and if they were not seeing economic damage, they would not react and let it die on its own.

Interesting. When this issue came up last fall, that was almost word-for-word chicos' exact post ... back before WarriorDad existed here on Scoop. Interesting.

[WarriorDad]

Interesting. When this issue came up last fall, that was almost word-for-word chicos' exact post ... back before WarriorDad existed here on Scoop. Interesting.

If you say so, though hardly surprising.  For most of last year in what I saw on the internet people were in two camps.  Protests weren't real, no effect.  Protests were real, effecting.  One or the other.  So you are saying some people here were in one camp and some were in another, and those views were expressed by both sides?  Yes, that is interesting. 

Follow the money.  Owners react to money, you and I both agreed on this a few days ago.  Are you now changing that position?  If money was the issue, it means protests impacted their wallets and they reacted accordingly.

[WarriorDad]

All about the money.  https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/23/national-anthem-protest-players-kneeling-nfl-crackdown/

[MUBurrow]

All about the money.  https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/23/national-anthem-protest-players-kneeling-nfl-crackdown/

They will cite to money, because its easier to veil the decision in economics than the owners' megalomania, but when you break out the economic fallout, this isn't even the smart tactic from a follow the $ strategy.

[rocket surgeon]

This policy, if left unchanged before the 2018 season, is going to bite the owners in the butt (and in the wallets). It will lead to many protests ... and many orange twits.

i believe you got this one backwards 82.  they would never have acted to change the policy unle$$ there wa$ a rea$on.  i believe the owners and the nfl have their ears to the ground a lot closer to the issues than you and i

  if you think they did this to be a rabble rouser, keep thinking

[MUBurrow]

i believe you got this one backwards 82.  they would never have acted to change the policy unle$$ there wa$ a rea$on.  i believe the owners and the nfl have their ears to the ground a lot closer to the issues than you and i

  if you think they did this to be a rabble rouser, keep thinking

So I think this is pretty much entirely wrong, and reflects the "they're rich, they must know business and what they're doing" mentality. These guys have shown, whether its through harassing their employees, making idiotic public statements, putting themselves in no-win PR situations, that their success in other industries shouldn't just cause us to give them the benefit of the doubt whenever they self-servingly cite to $$.  By just saying "economics" their old rich guy cred doesn't take the topic out of a rational analysis of their successes and failures within the NFL business. They like Goodell because he feeds into their hunger to reinforce the cult of their own personalities, to crush anything they see as opposition rather than work with it. Then when they continue to print money off their teams, they take that as reinforcing that they are doing everything the right way.

But here's the catch - Rozelle was the one who created the system that can't help but make money. With Rozelle's tenure as a launchpad, many of these owners make money despite themselves, not because of their genius. The NFL hasn't innovative anything legitimately new since Goodell took office. Its increasing profit margins are just the product of yelling "MOAR" at the innovations Rozelle put in place. MOAR TV deals, MOAR games, MOAR 24/7 coverage including the draft. Meanwhile the product is stagnating. They've never proactively addressed the head injury issue which is only going to get worse. The relationship with the PA is probably worse than anytime since the labor stoppage. They're running out of cities willing to house their teams. The confusing rules, declining product (especially weekday games) and oversaturation of games and advertising is making fans tune out.

I'm not arguing that there was no short term economic consequence to the protests from fans burning their NFL jerseys to own the libs, but the heavy handed response and focus on that issue won't be looked at as the economically rational one ten years from now.

[WarriorDad]

They will cite to money, because its easier to veil the decision in economics than the owners' megalomania, but when you break out the economic fallout, this isn't even the smart tactic from a follow the $ strategy.

What is the combined wealth of the owners and those running the NFL?  Probably not a Trillion, but it is way up there.  Those people bleed money, know more about money than 99.99% of the people out there.  If they believe it is the smart tactic that's all they need to believe, whether it is or isn't, doesn't matter to them.  Much more often than not, however, they are going to be right in their money conclusions based on history.

They had to weigh people leaving and not engaging vs the piss off factor of their actions. They would not have done that in a vacuum, they never do.  My guess is they paid considerable sums of money to study which way to go and the best bang for their buck decision was to make this announcement, do it before the Summer, let people simmer about it for a few weeks, get back to football in September and move along.  What baffles me is why they don't get with their tv partners and tell them not to broadcast the national anthem.  Don't provide the imagery that fueled this on both sides.  They have left themselves open to that because if 20 Packers stay in the tunnel, or 35 Jaguars, it will be noticed.

[GGGG]

What is the combined wealth of the owners and those running the NFL?  Probably not a Trillion, but it is way up there.  Those people bleed money, know more about money than 99.99% of the people out there.  If they believe it is the smart tactic that's all they need to believe, whether it is or isn't, doesn't matter to them.  Much more often than not, however, they are going to be right in their money conclusions based on history.

They had to weigh people leaving and not engaging vs the piss off factor of their actions. They would not have done that in a vacuum, they never do.  My guess is they paid considerable sums of money to study which way to go and the best bang for their buck decision was to make this announcement, do it before the Summer, let people simmer about it for a few weeks, get back to football in September and move along.  What baffles me is why they don't get with their tv partners and tell them not to broadcast the national anthem.  Don't provide the imagery that fueled this on both sides.  They have left themselves open to that because if 20 Packers stay in the tunnel, or 35 Jaguars, it will be noticed.

No rich people can make no dumb decisions when money is involved?