ACC wants to expand the NCAA tournament

[source?]

To 72

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23531225/acc-propose-expanding-ncaa-tournament-four-teams-72

[brewcity77]

I don't like it. 64 is better than 68, but there's no need to expand just for the sake of it. Especially from the ACC that gets 7-10 bids per year.

If they did this, I would hope the First Eight would be all at large bids. Auto qualifiers should get to play Thursday/Friday regardless. Let the last 16 fight it out and automatically make all those games the 12/13 seeds.

[GGGG]

I don't like it. 64 is better than 68, but there's no need to expand just for the sake of it. Especially from the ACC that gets 7-10 bids per year.

If they did this, I would hope the First Eight would be all at large bids. Auto qualifiers should get to play Thursday/Friday regardless. Let the last 16 fight it out and automatically make all those games the 12/13 seeds.

Nah. No one wants to watch them.

[brewcity77]

Nah. No one wants to watch them.

People watch the first weekend because they love seeing the little guys and the upsets. Picking those teams is what makes brackets fun in the first place.

I think this would improve the play-in games because it would be filled with more recognizable teams and bigger names (seriously, does anyone want another 16 vs 16 game?) while also insuring all the true underdogs get to play when everyone is watching.

[WarriorFan]

64 is enough. I still don't like the play-in games.  If you want play-in games, make them all among the lesser conferences and give the at-large slots to major conferences.

Yes, I'm biased.  There are currently too many conference champions taking up space in the tournament. 

[GGGG]

There are currently too many conference champions taking up space in the tournament. 

Yep. Too many D1 teams as it stands.

[real chili 83]

Just to mix it up, then let in the top 2-3 D2 and/or D3 teams in. 

[UNC Eagle]

The ACC has a lot of marginal teams, is too big  and is looking to enhance their status with this proposal.

All the more reason I like the way the Big East is configured. Our dual round robin gives every team a decent chance at making the tournament. 

[Galway Eagle]

Just to mix it up, then let in the top 2-3 D2 and/or D3 teams in.

That'd actually be interesting. Do some type of relegation the way it works in the EPL.

[brewcity77]

That'd actually be interesting. Do some type of relegation the way it works in the EPL.

It would be tough to work it out in this country. Too much geographic disparity, too much entrenched tradition. How do you fit a UW-Whitewater into the HBCU in the SWAC? It works in England and other European leagues because the countries are the size of states and it's one unified league structure. Not so in college basketball.

I'd almost always endorse a pro/rel system, but I'm not sure it could work here even in soccer, much less any other sport.

[GGGG]

That'd actually be interesting. Do some type of relegation the way it works in the EPL.

That would be awful.

[StillAWarrior]

If they did this, I would hope the First Eight would be all at large bids. Auto qualifiers should get to play Thursday/Friday regardless. Let the last 16 fight it out and automatically make all those games the 12/13 seeds.

I agree with this completely.  Even if they don't expand, I would love it if the first four games were the last eight teams into the tournament.  I think the auto-qualifiers should get to play in the "real" tournament starting on Thursday.  I've always thought ti sucked that some of the auto-qualifiers get shipped to Dayton and eliminated before the tournament really gets started.

[Galway Eagle]

That would be awful.

Why?

[Galway Eagle]

It would be tough to work it out in this country. Too much geographic disparity, too much entrenched tradition. How do you fit a UW-Whitewater into the HBCU in the SWAC? It works in England and other European leagues because the countries are the size of states and it's one unified league structure. Not so in college basketball.

I'd almost always endorse a pro/rel system, but I'm not sure it could work here even in soccer, much less any other sport.

I completely agree it's not feasible but it'd be more fun than having certain teams consistently be a drag on D1 sports every year.

[warriorchick]

The ACC has a lot of marginal teams, is too big  and is looking to enhance their status with this proposal.

Yep.  I am surprised that the ACC didn't partner with a few other like-minded organizations so their self-serving motivation wouldn't be so obvious.

Or maybe they tried, and no one else would sign on.

[GGGG]

Why?

How do you handle the scholarships?  I'd rather just drop the bottom 50-75 teams down to Division 2.

[Galway Eagle]

How do you handle the scholarships?  I'd rather just drop the bottom 50-75 teams down to Division 2.

Fair enough. I was just thinking from a competitive standpoint.

[GooooMarquette]

Should've stayed at 64. I would only watch a play-in game if MU was in it, and I would never bother to go to Dayton to watch even if MU played.

The tourney starts on Thursday.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree that there are too many D1 teams. Would love to drop at least the MEAC, SWAC, and NEC conferences to D2. Three conferences that consistently feature only teams that finish in the bottom half of all teams. Could probably make an argument for the Southland, Patriot, America East, Big South, Southern, and Atlantic Sun as well.

[Galway Eagle]

I agree that there are too many D1 teams. Would love to drop at least the MEAC, SWAC, and NEC conferences to D2. Three conferences that consistently feature only teams that finish in the bottom half of all teams. Could probably make an argument for the Southland, Patriot, America East, Big South, Southern, and Atlantic Sun as well.

That'd kill a lot of the best upsets in tournament history... Davidson, UMBC, Stephen F Austin etc. I get what you're saying but still there's some bright spots.

[brewcity77]

So I just posted this on Twitter, but here's the gist of my thoughts on expansion. If it's going to happen, they need to go to all at-large teams playing on Tuesday and Wednesday. And NOT just because it's better for the small schools, but because it's also better for the big schools. Here's why:

1) Improve TV Ratings

In 2018, here are the numbers for eyeballs (courtesy of Mr. Nielsen) on Tuesday/Wednesday:

St. Bonaventure/UCLA: 1.705M viewers
Radford/LIU-Brooklyn: 1.223M viewers

Arizona State/Syracuse: 2.159M viewers
Texas Southern/NC-Central: 867K viewers

More people care about watching the name schools. When we get to Thursday/Friday, everyone will tune in to see the 1-seeds, so Radford and company will draw eyeballs. But on Tuesday/Wednesday, you need those big names to drive viewership. Putting all at-large schools, most of which will be high majors, into those games will increase the ratings.

2) Help the Top Seeds

For the best ratings, you want the big teams playing in the second weekend. UMBC never upsets Virginia if they are a 15-seed like they should have been. Consider the 15/2 upset. From 1985 through 2010, there were only three 15/2 upsets. Since going to the play-in games, the quality of the 15 seed has improved because the 16-seeds are watered down by the First Four. As a result, there have been more 15/2 upsets in the eight years since the First Four started (4) than there were in the twenty-six years prior (3). If all the auto-bids play on Thursday/Friday, it is better for the teams on the top seed lines.

3) Make the Small Leagues Happy

If you don't play on Thursday/Friday, let's be honest, it feels like you weren't in the tournament. We hear that all the time. If you let all the auto-bids play Thursday/Friday, it maximizes their exposure and insures all their coaches, players, teams, and every league gets a shot at the big boys.

4) More Money for High-Majors

The First Four (or Eight) still count for NCAA credits. Why would the high majors want that money going to schools from the SWAC or MEAC when they can consolidate the bulk of it for themselves? If you have 16 at-large schools playing in those games, most likely 12 or more are from leagues like the ACC, Big East, Big 12, and SEC. That would help the big leagues get more money from the Tournament.

5) Consider the Game Options

Scenario 1
16 - LIU-Brooklyn/Radford
16 - Texas Southern/NC-Central
16 - Penn/Iona
16 - UMBC/Georgia State
11 - Syracuse/St. Mary's
11 - Arizona State/Notre Dame
11 - St. Bonaventure/USC
11 - UCLA/Baylor

Scenario 2
10 - Kansas State/St. Mary's
10 - Florida State/USC
10 - Alabama/Notre Dame
10 - NC State/Baylor
11 - Texas/Syracuse
11 - Providence/Arizona State
11 - Butler/St. Bonaventure
11 - Oklahoma/UCLA

Which would interest people more? Which would draw more eyeballs? Which would make it so the NCAA Tournament opening weekend felt like a 6-day affair instead of 4?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That'd kill a lot of the best upsets in tournament history... Davidson, UMBC, Stephen F Austin etc. I get what you're saying but still there's some bright spots.

Agreed, that's why my definite cut list was just the MEAC, SWAC, and NEC. They are three conferences that don't have any programs that consistently rise to the top and put up good fights in the tournament. My hope for the likes of the Southland, America East, Southern, etc would be that the top teams would then transfer into some of the better conferences like Davidson did by going from the Southern to the A10.

Of course, this is probably never going to happen so what I hope is irrelevant!

[Galway Eagle]

Agreed, that's why my definite cut list was just the MEAC, SWAC, and NEC. They are three conferences that don't have any programs that consistently rise to the top and put up good fights in the tournament. My hope for the likes of the Southland, America East, Southern, etc would be that the top teams would then transfer into some of the better conferences like Davidson did by going from the Southern to the A10.

Of course, this is probably never going to happen so what I hope is irrelevant!

Maybe they could be a D1 B level that starts my relegation idea

[Trust The Process]

Should be 64 teams, but 68 is fine the way it is I guess. This is just the ACC being pissed that they didn't get more teams in. It's all about money: more games = more tv time = more money. The Power 5 conferences want to set up a west coast version of the Dayton First Four. Eventually I could see all the power conferences getting together and starting their own post-season tournament thereby taking the NCAA out of the picture. They have all the big name schools to do it and be able to promote viewership. It sucks because everyone loves seeing the underdogs get a chance but everything is so warped around money that it could be evident one day.

[Coleman]

Just to mix it up, then let in the top 2-3 D2 and/or D3 teams in.

I like this. Maybe have the D1 and D2 championships first, and then invite the winners of each to a play-in game against a 16 seed

An actual relegation/promotion would be dumb and infeasible. But why not invite the winners to the Big Dance that year?