Starting salary for the class of 2018: $50,390

[muwarrior69]

Lol. Yes, without public sector workers, my life would be literally nothing. Get real. Public sector is largely an inefficient, poor performer.

....or that my wallet has a never ending flow of cash. The median salary for a school teacher in New Jersey is around 75K and they still cry poverty as they hand my grand daughter a school fund raiser for paper and crayons for her first grade classroom..... and no the teacher should not have to fork that money out of her/his income to provide those supplies. On another note we just buried a teacher and 5th grader because a school bus driver decided to make a UTurn on the interstate. It was later determine that this guy had lost his driving privileges 14 times over the last 30 years. Don't they check that information before the hire?

[Pakuni]

....or that my wallet has a never ending flow of cash. The median salary for a school teacher in New Jersey is around 75K and they still cry poverty as they hand my grand daughter a school fund raiser for paper and crayons for her first grade classroom.

1. Actually, you're off on median salary by almost $10K. Do you find a $66K salary for a college-educated professional (often with an advanced degree) in a high cost-of-living state to be outrageous?
http://www.nj.com/education/2017/04/nj_teacher_pay_see_the_median_salary_in_every_dist.html

2. Shouldn't the better question be why your grandkids' school needs to conduct fundraisers for basic supplies?

[Galway Eagle]

1. Actually, you're off on median salary by almost $10K. Do you find a $66K salary for a college-educated professional (often with an advanced degree) in a high cost-of-living state to be outrageous?
http://www.nj.com/education/2017/04/nj_teacher_pay_see_the_median_salary_in_every_dist.html

2. Shouldn't the better question be why your grandkids' school needs to conduct fundraisers for basic supplies?

Something to also focus on is teachers work well over the subscribed hours. Having dated three teachers i know many times they don't get home till 7 or 8PM. And many of the supplies come out of pocket with little to no reimbursement. Finally, parents are doing less and less I. Raising their kids and expecting teachers to do it all, one such lady recieves calls on her personal phone during weekends and nights from parents asking where their kids are, asking why their kid was sent to the office, why their kids are not at school etc.

I used to think that it was the glamorous life but it's definitely not easy for new teachers before they've checked out and stop caring.

[Lennys Tap]

Something to also focus on is teachers work well over the subscribed hours. Having dated three teachers i know many times they don't get home till 7 or 8PM. And many of the supplies come out of pocket with little to no reimbursement. Finally, parents are doing less and less I. Raising their kids and expecting teachers to do it all, one such lady recieves calls on her personal phone during weekends and nights from parents asking where their kids are, asking why their kid was sent to the office, why their kids are not at school etc.

I used to think that it was the glamorous life but it's definitely not easy for new teachers before they've checked out and stop caring.

Some teachers sometimes work late. Some teachers often work late. Some teachers almost never do. There are plusses (180 days off a year) and minuses (dealing with difficult parents). Overall compensation is fair, but the way it is distributed isn't. As long as the unions are running things, young, energetic, dynamic (and underpaid) teachers will come up short (and probably leave) and mediocre to poor teachers will stay for the benefits (higher salaries, generous pensions, security) that come down the road with tenure.

[Galway Eagle]

Some teachers sometimes work late. Some teachers often work late. Some teachers almost never do. There are plusses (180 days off a year) and minuses (dealing with difficult parents). Overall compensation is fair, but the way it is distributed isn't. As long as the unions are running things, young, energetic, dynamic (and underpaid) teachers will come up short (and probably leave) and mediocre to poor teachers will stay for the benefits (higher salaries, generous pensions, security) that come down the road with tenure.

And how do you determine a mediocre poor teacher? I dated a girl who teaches at bayview, works till 8pm most nights, buys food for the children as half don't even have lunch, tutors during lunch etc. her classes still have major behavioral disruptions and issues. At some point it's on the parents and what you're suggesting punishes teachers for that.

[Coleman]

Lol. Yes, without public sector workers, my life would be literally nothing. Get real. Public sector is largely an inefficient, poor performer.

So you want a world with no cops, no firefighters, no teachers, no garbage collectors?

The jobs in the public sector allow the rest of us to worry about pursuing our passions and making money. We don't have to worry about getting robbed, how to get to work, or educating our kids. By having the basics of the common good provided to all, the rest of us are given the freedom to pursue wealth and happiness. In return, they deserve a decent income and secure retirement. Why is this so hard for some people to grasp?

[Coleman]

1. Actually, you're off on median salary by almost $10K. Do you find a $66K salary for a college-educated professional (often with an advanced degree) in a high cost-of-living state to be outrageous?
http://www.nj.com/education/2017/04/nj_teacher_pay_see_the_median_salary_in_every_dist.html

2. Shouldn't the better question be why your grandkids' school needs to conduct fundraisers for basic supplies?

Thank you.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My wife is an art teacher an routinely spends well over the $250 IRS deduction (which was attempted to be cut in last year's stupid tax bill.).  Art supplies are more expensive than the regular class supplies and she usually gets a smaller budget than they do on top it.  Heck, she went to work last Saturday because something had be finished.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Some teachers sometimes work late. Some teachers often work late. Some teachers almost never do. There are plusses (180 days off a year) and minuses (dealing with difficult parents). Overall compensation is fair, but the way it is distributed isn't. As long as the unions are running things, young, energetic, dynamic (and underpaid) teachers will come up short (and probably leave) and mediocre to poor teachers will stay for the benefits (higher salaries, generous pensions, security) that come down the road with tenure.

So many teachers think they have a monopoly on working late or more than their 40 per week.  Most professionals work more than 40 hours per week.  We just don't expect everyone else to celebrate us for doing so or hold self-pity parties about it.

(FTR, my brother, his wife, and numerous cousins and other relatives are all teachers.  I have great deal of respect for those that can teach and are good teachers.)

[Lennys Tap]

And how do you determine a mediocre poor teacher? I dated a girl who teaches at bayview, works till 8pm most nights, buys food for the children as half don't even have lunch, tutors during lunch etc. her classes still have major behavioral disruptions and issues. At some point it's on the parents and what you're suggesting punishes teachers for that.

Bags - I think you misunderstood my point. I'm in 100% agreement that the job of our teachers is made much more difficult by neglectful or difficult parents and clearly state that as a minus (i.e., a difficulty) for people who choose teaching as a profession - but I never blamed the teachers for it.

I judge good, bad or mediocre teachers pretty much like everyone else - I've had enough of each type to recognize them when I see them.

[Galway Eagle]

So many teachers think they have a monopoly on working late or more than their 40 per week.  Most professionals work more than 40 hours per week.  We just don't expect everyone else to celebrate us for doing so or hold self-pity parties about it.

(FTR, my brother, his wife, and numerous cousins and other relatives are all teachers.  I have great deal of respect for those that can teach and are good teachers.)

You're missing the point, teachers don't think they have a monopoly on those hours. It's that their peers (especially early on) that work similar hours are lawyers and in IT making a whole lot more.

[Galway Eagle]

Bags - I think you misunderstood my point. I'm in 100% agreement that the job of our teachers is made much more difficult by neglectful or difficult parents and clearly state that as a minus (i.e., a difficulty) for people who choose teaching as a profession - but I never blamed the teachers for it.

I judge good, bad or mediocre teachers pretty much like everyone else - I've had enough of each type to recognize them when I see them.

I agree it's recognizable, and of course if we had an objective party observe them it'd be easier to figure out who is and who isn't a good teacher but realistically the standard would be set by standardized tests, grades, and a non objective principle/superintendent that would factor in age and length of time they've been there when deciding who gets the good pay and who doesn't.

[mu_hilltopper]

As long as the unions are running things, young, energetic, dynamic (and underpaid) teachers will come up short (and probably leave) and mediocre to poor teachers will stay for the benefits (higher salaries, generous pensions, security) that come down the road with tenure.

Just an FYI Lenny, in Wisconsin, the teachers' unions are roughly powerless.  School Boards create their own employee handbook and hire and fire as they see fit.

[jesmu84]

You're missing the point, teachers don't think they have a monopoly on those hours. It's that their peers (especially early on) that work similar hours are lawyers and in IT making a whole lot more.

I actually see it slightly differently. Teachers are likely representative of every other career out there. Some put in long/extra hours. Some put it as little as possible. From personal experience - to do the job, and do it well, they do likely need to be working >40 hours/week.

The problem is that those trying to belittle teachers tend to paint them as working weekdays 8-3 with summers off. That's not even remotely fair. Neither is the over-exaggeration of saying they all work 60+ hours/week.

[🏀]

So you want a world with no cops, no firefighters, no teachers, no garbage collectors?

The jobs in the public sector allow the rest of us to worry about pursuing our passions and making money. We don't have to worry about getting robbed, how to get to work, or educating our kids. By having the basics of the common good provided to all, the rest of us are given the freedom to pursue wealth and happiness. In return, they deserve a decent income and secure retirement. Why is this so hard for some people to grasp?

Small nitpick, but garbage collection is vastly cheaper with privatization.

[Lennys Tap]

I actually see it slightly differently. Teachers are likely representative of every other career out there. Some put in long/extra hours. Some put it as little as possible. From personal experience - to do the job, and do it well, they do likely need to be working >40 hours/week.

The problem is that those trying to belittle teachers tend to paint them as working weekdays 8-3 with summers off. That's not even remotely fair. Neither is the over-exaggeration of saying they all work 60+ hours/week.

Agree with paragraph #1.

Re paragraph #2, I don't think many consider them overpaid slackers. Most fall into the fairly compensated or grossly underpaid camps.

[jesmu84]

Agree with paragraph #1.

Re paragraph #2, I don't think many consider them overpaid slackers. Most fall into the fairly compensated or grossly underpaid camps.

Correct. Bad wording by me.

Those who believe teachers are paid enough/fairly compensated - portray them as working 8-3 and summers off, justifying their (low) pay.

[Jay Bee]

So you want a world with no cops, no firefighters, no teachers, no garbage collectors?

The jobs in the public sector allow the rest of us to worry about pursuing our passions and making money. We don't have to worry about getting robbed, how to get to work, or educating our kids. By having the basics of the common good provided to all, the rest of us are given the freedom to pursue wealth and happiness. In return, they deserve a decent income and secure retirement. Why is this so hard for some people to grasp?

You on drugs, bruh? I don’t live in your fantasy world and disagree with nearly everything you typed

[Coleman]

You on drugs, bruh? I don’t live in your fantasy world and disagree with nearly everything you typed

Good argument. Nothing substantive, just "you on drugs?"....nice

[Coleman]

Small nitpick, but garbage collection is vastly cheaper with privatization.

Its a fair nitpick. Some services may be more efficient if privatized. But you will always need some public sector workers too, especially when the profit motive conflicts with the common good.

[Jay Bee]

Disturbing....

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/05/30/why-the-dentist-with-1-million-in-student-debt-spells-trouble-for-federal-loan-programs/

There’s old, simple and reasonable saying... it goes, “pay your effin bills”

[Dr. Blackheart]

Disturbing....

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/05/30/why-the-dentist-with-1-million-in-student-debt-spells-trouble-for-federal-loan-programs/

There’s old, simple and reasonable saying... it goes, “pay your effin bills”

Friggin' dentists.  When are the bots coming to replace these mouth breathers, aina?

[MomofMUltiples]

Disturbing....

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/05/30/why-the-dentist-with-1-million-in-student-debt-spells-trouble-for-federal-loan-programs/

There’s old, simple and reasonable saying... it goes, “pay your effin bills”

Actual question here is which idiots allowed this guy to borrow over $1 million?

[buckchuckler]

Its a fair nitpick. Some services may be more efficient if privatized. But you will always need some public sector workers too, especially when the profit motive conflicts with the common good.

Does the public sector always operate without this mindset?  I may not be a good judge living in the Chicago area...

[Coleman]

Does the public sector always operate without this mindset?  I may not be a good judge living in the Chicago area...

I also live in Chicago. To be sure... corruption, graft, patronage, etc. all undermine the common good and are a cancer upon the public sector. They should be eliminated at all cost. But do note that most of this originates with politicians, not public sector workers/civil servants.