2018-19 minutes per game

[GB Warrior]

I think other players bring a more similar skill set to Cain than players do to Elliott. That makes Elliott more valuable to the team and less likely to redshirt, in my mind. Not that I think that Cain either should or will redshirt.

If anyone redshirts, it'll be a wing, and I have to think that it's Bailey even though he'll be 30 years old before seeing the court.

[mug644]

If anyone redshirts, it'll be a wing, and I have to think that it's Bailey even though he'll be 30 years old before seeing the court.

That's another/better way of saying what I tried to say...and, since I don't see any way that Bailey will redshirt after being away for 2 years already, my thinking is that it would be more likely to be Cain (a wing) than Elliott (a 2 who can hopefully back up the point). Again, I'll still be surprised if Cain redshirts.

[Floorslapper]

I think other players bring a more similar skill set to Cain than players do to Elliott. That makes Elliott more valuable to the team and less likely to redshirt, in my mind. Not that I think that Cain either should or will redshirt.

I can't quite get a clear read on Elliott...as if he'll be a star, or a solid contributor as a senior.  Think he oozes potential.  Going to be really good wing defender.  Athletic in transition.  Decent shooter.  Yet not laterally very quick.  By senior year should be good finisher at rim.

Feel all of these sam qualities apply to Cain, yet feel Cain due to additional length, size, and in my opinion, a better shot - give Cain the upper hand on Greg.

Definitely two of my favorite recruits Wojo has brought into the program.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Who knows, Bailey may never see the floor for MU.

[MU82]

I think by conference play, in a normal game, we'll go 10/11 deep, with the bottom 2/3 getting ~5 mpg. In blowouts, with foul trouble, or if nothing seem to be working, minutes will be spread out more (duh). In big games and down the stretch near tourney time, the rotation will tighten to 8/9 players. Here's how I see those scenarios playing out.

Base/normal case

1: JC 28, Elliott 12
2: M2N 28, Elliott 6, Cain 6
3: Hauser the Elder 20, Cain 12, Anim 4, BB 4
4: Hauser the Younger 24, Hauser the Elder 8, Morrow 8
5: Morrow 20, Theo 10, Heldt 8 (may start for tip), Hauser the Younger 2

That's 28 for JC, M2N, Sam, Morrow, 26 for Joey, 18 for GE/Cain, 10 for Theo, 8 for Heldt, 8 combined for Anim/Bailey

With minutes spread due to foul trouble/blowout/nothing working

1: JC 24, Elliott 12, M2N 4
2: M2N 20, Elliott 6, Cain 6, Anim 4, Bailey 4
3: Hauser the Elder 20, Cain 12, Anim 4, Bailey 4
4: Hauser the Younger 22, Hauser the Elder 4, Morrow 8, Theo 3, Eke 3
5: Morrow 16, Theo 11, Heldt 8, Eke 5

That's 24 for JC, M2N, Sam, Morrow, 22 for Joey, 18 for GE/Cain, 14 for Theo, 8 for Heldt, 16 combined for Anim/Bailey, Eke 8

Tightened rotation in big games/March

1: JC 32, Elliott 8
2: M2N 32, Elliott 4, Cain 4
3: Hauser the Elder 26, , Cain 10, Hauser the Younger 4
4: Hauser the Younger 26, Hauser the Elder 6, Morrow 8
5: Morrow 24, Theo 10, Heldt 6

That's 32 for JC, M2N, Sam, Morrow, 30 for Joey, 14 for Cain, 12 for GE, 10 for Theo, 6 for Heldt

Lineup on floor in crunch time

JC, M2N, Sam, Joey, Ed (best 5 players)

Lineup to defend a large lead down the stretch

JC, Greg, Anim, Morrow, Theo (height, athleticism, strength, 5 best defenders)

I like how you have Heldt playing 6-8 minutes in every scenario because, if that happens, it will mean we are a better team than we have been.

I still don't see it happening, though. 1. Wojo likes Heldt. 2. Heldt did bring a calming effect sometimes last season that made the team play better.

I'd be happy with what it says about our team if Heldt is playing 10-15 mpg.

If Heldt is playing 25-30, that means either Theo hasn't progressed as much as we hoped, Wojo doesn't trust Theo enough or Heldt has become a heldt of a player. The last is the least-likely scenario IMHO.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Honest question, when is the last time a Marquette freshman who played less minutes than a sophomore/junior at the same position then came back as a sophomore and then took minutes from that older player and surpassed them in minutes?

I know we like to believe that freshmen like Cain and John are going to go through such big jumps that they will pass upperclassmen like Anim and Heldt, but I honestly don't think it happens that often.

[Pakuni]

Honest question, when is the last time a Marquette freshman who played less minutes than a sophomore/junior at the same position then came back as a sophomore and then took minutes from that older player and surpassed them in minutes?

I know we like to believe that freshmen like Cain and John are going to go through such big jumps that they will pass upperclassmen like Anim and Heldt, but I honestly don't think it happens that often.

Off the top of my head ... Lazar played 16.3 mpg as a frosh, mostly behind Dan Fitzgerald, who played 21.7. The next year, he played 25.4 mpg to Fitz's 14.3.

[muwarrior69]

Off the top of my head ... Lazar played 16.3 mpg as a frosh, mostly behind Dan Fitzgerald, who played 21.7. The next year, he played 25.4 mpg to Fitz's 14.3.

That's pretty good for "off the top of my head"!

[Silkk the Shaka]

Honest question, when is the last time a Marquette freshman who played less minutes than a sophomore/junior at the same position then came back as a sophomore and then took minutes from that older player and surpassed them in minutes?

I know we like to believe that freshmen like Cain and John are going to go through such big jumps that they will pass upperclassmen like Anim and Heldt, but I honestly don't think it happens that often.

Agreed, but the complexion of the team & its overall needs will change drastically with the addition of Chartouny/Morrow/Hauser/Bailey

Anim/Heldt become less necessary, Elliott/Cain/Theo improve

However, the minutes I'm projecting for those 3 aren't drastically different from what they got this year.

Joey & Morrow are what's doing it. And they're significantly better players than those 2. Wojo has shown he'll plays the linueps necessary to get his best players the most time.

[Pakuni]

That's pretty good for "off the top of my head"!

The players were off the top of my head. The minutes, I had to look up.
That help?

[mug644]

Honest question, when is the last time a Marquette freshman who played less minutes than a sophomore/junior at the same position then came back as a sophomore and then took minutes from that older player and surpassed them in minutes?

I know we like to believe that freshmen like Cain and John are going to go through such big jumps that they will pass upperclassmen like Anim and Heldt, but I honestly don't think it happens that often.

Steve Novak? Played behind Todd Townsend as a freshman, then started nearly every game as a sophomore.

[Its DJOver]

Honest question, when is the last time a Marquette freshman who played less minutes than a sophomore/junior at the same position then came back as a sophomore and then took minutes from that older player and surpassed them in minutes?

I know we like to believe that freshmen like Cain and John are going to go through such big jumps that they will pass upperclassmen like Anim and Heldt, but I honestly don't think it happens that often.

10-11 Otule averaged 17.6 to just 9 for Davante.  Otule then stayed at 17 for the next three years, while Davante jumped to 19, 21 and 26.   They technically graduated together, even though Chris was on the team for 6 years, compared to the normal 4 for Davante.  Doesn't exactly fit, but it's close.

I see Jamal, Sacar, and Greg all getting about the same number of minutes overall, with Wojo riding whoever's hot.  Same with Matt and Theo. 

[Jockey]

On the one hand, I think it is silly for us to guess minutes next year considering we have no say in the matter, nor do we know what guys are doing in the off-season to try to get more minutes on the floor.


On the other hand, this is an excellent topic here. It is the perfect topic for off-season speculation. We have an abundance of riches (finally) next year and it's fun to speculate and try to fit the pieces in place.

Of interest to me are the minutes at guard. Howard is very prone to foul trouble when attempting to play 'D', so I don't see him reaching 30 minutes per game even though his talent warrants it. Elliott and JC won't cover all other minutes at guard, so who gets them? Does Sacar or Sam get some time there? I think Sam could be a solid option at '2' against certain teams.

Wonder what others think about spare minutes at SG'.

[Nukem2]

On the one hand, I think it is silly for us to guess minutes next year considering we have no say in the matter, nor do we know what guys are doing in the off-season to try to get more minutes on the floor.


On the other hand, this is an excellent topic here. It is the perfect topic for off-season speculation. We have an abundance of riches (finally) next year and it's fun to speculate and try to fit the pieces in place.

Of interest to me are the minutes at guard. Howard is very prone to foul trouble when attempting to play 'D', so I don't see him reaching 30 minutes per game even though his talent warrants it. Elliott and JC won't cover all other minutes at guard, so who gets them? Does Sacar or Sam get some time there? I think Sam could be a solid option at '2' against certain teams.

Wonder what others think about spare minutes at SG'.

. Howard averaged 31.5 mpg this past season.......

[MU82]

On the one hand, I think it is silly for us to guess minutes next year considering we have no say in the matter, nor do we know what guys are doing in the off-season to try to get more minutes on the floor.


On the other hand, this is an excellent topic here. It is the perfect topic for off-season speculation. We have an abundance of riches (finally) next year and it's fun to speculate and try to fit the pieces in place.

Of interest to me are the minutes at guard. Howard is very prone to foul trouble when attempting to play 'D', so I don't see him reaching 30 minutes per game even though his talent warrants it. Elliott and JC won't cover all other minutes at guard, so who gets them? Does Sacar or Sam get some time there? I think Sam could be a solid option at '2' against certain teams.

Wonder what others think about spare minutes at SG'.

As a couple other Scoopers said, 2 and 3 are largely interchangeable positions. Wojo will have the luxury to mix and match depending upon the opponent. He can choose to match what they're putting out there, or he can create mismatches and make the opponent react. And he can do both of those things numerous times in any game.

[Goose]

TAMU

Great call on Cain. I was thinking the same thing. He would benefit a great deal.

[Jockey]

. Howard averaged 31.5 mpg this past season.......

True, but we had few other options - very shallow team, especially at guard. He had to play a lot of minutes with 3 or 4 fouls for us to have a chance.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Honest question, when is the last time a Marquette freshman who played less minutes than a sophomore/junior at the same position then came back as a sophomore and then took minutes from that older player and surpassed them in minutes?

I know we like to believe that freshmen like Cain and John are going to go through such big jumps that they will pass upperclassmen like Anim and Heldt, but I honestly don't think it happens that often.

As a sophomore, Heldt started and played 20+ mpg down the stretch after racking up DNPs behind junior Fischer as a frosh. That wasn't an obvious decision to make that switch but it worked. Making time for Morrow & Joey will likely be an obvious decision.

[Lennys Tap]

I think by conference play, in a normal game, we'll go 10/11 deep, with the bottom 2/3 getting ~5 mpg. In blowouts, with foul trouble, or if nothing seem to be working, minutes will be spread out more (duh). In big games and down the stretch near tourney time, the rotation will tighten to 8/9 players. Here's how I see those scenarios playing out.

Base/normal case

1: JC 28, Elliott 12
2: M2N 28, Elliott 6, Cain 6
3: Hauser the Elder 20, Cain 12, Anim 4, BB 4
4: Hauser the Younger 24, Hauser the Elder 8, Morrow 8
5: Morrow 20, Theo 10, Heldt 8 (may start for tip), Hauser the Younger 2

That's 28 for JC, M2N, Sam, Morrow, 26 for Joey, 18 for GE/Cain, 10 for Theo, 8 for Heldt, 8 combined for Anim/Bailey

With minutes spread due to foul trouble/blowout/nothing working

1: JC 24, Elliott 12, M2N 4
2: M2N 20, Elliott 6, Cain 6, Anim 4, Bailey 4
3: Hauser the Elder 20, Cain 12, Anim 4, Bailey 4
4: Hauser the Younger 22, Hauser the Elder 4, Morrow 8, Theo 3, Eke 3
5: Morrow 16, Theo 11, Heldt 8, Eke 5

That's 24 for JC, M2N, Sam, Morrow, 22 for Joey, 18 for GE/Cain, 14 for Theo, 8 for Heldt, 16 combined for Anim/Bailey, Eke 8

Tightened rotation in big games/March

1: JC 32, Elliott 8
2: M2N 32, Elliott 4, Cain 4
3: Hauser the Elder 26, , Cain 10, Hauser the Younger 4
4: Hauser the Younger 26, Hauser the Elder 6, Morrow 8
5: Morrow 24, Theo 10, Heldt 6

That's 32 for JC, M2N, Sam, Morrow, 30 for Joey, 14 for Cain, 12 for GE, 10 for Theo, 6 for Heldt

Lineup on floor in crunch time

JC, M2N, Sam, Joey, Ed (best 5 players)

Lineup to defend a large lead down the stretch

JC, Greg, Anim, Morrow, Theo (height, athleticism, strength, 5 best defenders)

Lots of interesting takes in this thread, but this one nails it.

[brewcity77]

Howard averaged 31.5 mpg this past season.......

2015-16 Minutes
Haanif Cheatham: 29.5
Duane Wilson: 28.5
Luke Fischer: 28.2

2016-17 Minutes
Haanif Cheatham: 25.4
Duane Wilson: 16.4
Luke Fischer: 24.0

Those were our top three players in terms of returning minutes. All three lost minutes as the team got deeper with the addition of Rowsey, Howard, Hauser, and Reinhardt. Significant minutes. Last year we went 8 deep if you include Theo as part of the rotation. Next year we likely go 10 deep. Established players will play fewer minutes, and it will be for the good of the team.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

2015-16 Minutes
Haanif Cheatham: 29.5
Duane Wilson: 28.5
Luke Fischer: 28.2

2016-17 Minutes
Haanif Cheatham: 25.4
Duane Wilson: 16.4
Luke Fischer: 24.0

Those were our top three players in terms of returning minutes. All three lost minutes as the team got deeper with the addition of Rowsey, Howard, Hauser, and Reinhardt. Significant minutes. Last year we went 8 deep if you include Theo as part of the rotation. Next year we likely go 10 deep. Established players will play fewer minutes, and it will be for the good of the team.

Yea, but Howard, Rowsey, Hauser, Markus and Reinhardt were significantly better players than Haanif and Duane (Excluding Luke because of position). I'd be pretty surprised if a healthy Sam and Markus play less than 30 minutes come conference play.

[brewcity77]

Yea, but Howard, Rowsey, Hauser, Markus and Reinhardt were significantly better players than Haanif and Duane (Excluding Luke because of position). I'd be pretty surprised if a healthy Sam and Markus play less than 30 minutes come conference play.

Haani still played starter minutes. I think it will be situational, but if we have games well in hand, I think the starters minutes get trimmed a bit. And I don't think it's just about quality of player, but the advantage of having guys be fresh.

My projected starters right now and the guys I would expect to get the most minutes at each position are Chartouny, Howard, Sam, Morrow, and Heldt. But situationally, I think Elliott, Anim, Cain, Joey, and John could get 25-30 minutes on any given night. I think any of those guys could have a SOTG type performance.

This year's roster should be Wojo's best, top to bottom, but there are legit players coming off the bench. On a fairly regular basis, Wojo will have some tough decisions when it comes to minutes, and I think after that starting five, there are a number of guys that will make it really tough to not play them.

[MUMountin]

My projected starters right now and the guys I would expect to get the most minutes at each position are Chartouny, Howard, Sam, Morrow, and Heldt. But situationally, I think Elliott, Anim, Cain, Joey, and John could get 25-30 minutes on any given night. I think any of those guys could have a SOTG type performance.

I agree with this.  I expect the first three guys to average around 30mpg, the second two 25mpg.  But, based on fouls, game situations, hot hands, injuries, etc, I think you’ll see games where any of the second group can grab more than 20 mpg. 

I do agree that it seems a redshirt would be beneficial, and I’d say either Bailey, Elliott, or Cain make the most sense now.  Tough to imagine Bailey doing it, so I’d think it would be one of the two Michiganders.  Hope they pay attention to what Nova has done (five of their top six guys this year having used a RS year of some form or other), and realize what it can mean for them personally and the team.  We’d certainly miss some aspects each brings this year, but I think Elliott’s impact could largely be absorbed by Sacar while Bailey could do a lot of what Cain offers.  They both played admirably this year pressed into service at times against much stronger and more mature and polished players, but both could benefit from a year of development without as much pressure.  Hope they consider it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The Scoop Special.  One one hand, we celebrate a full and balanced roster for the first time in six seasons. On the other, we can't help but speculate on redshirts and transfers.

Do people remember just a few short weeks ago when we had three starters playing out of position, all active players running on fumes, Scoopers melting down on every foul fearing bench time, and six roster members physically banged up or already under the knife (both Hausers, Ike, Markus, Greg, Jamal)?

How about this?  Wojo keeps running a full roster out there that actually amps up the pressure on defense, can defend the PAR, locks up the paint, gives starters a rest while providing quality minutes, exploits match-ups rather than gets exploited, and doesn't Vichy the rim? And if some one is playing with one hand or on one hip, can fully rest or redshirt?

"Celebrate the temporary"

[MU82]

The Scoop Special.  One one hand, we celebrate a full and balanced roster for the first time in six seasons. On the other, we can't help but speculate on redshirts and transfers.

Do people remember just a few short weeks ago when we had three starters playing out of position, all active players running on fumes, Scoopers melting down on every foul fearing bench time, and six roster members physically banged up or already under the knife (both Hausers, Ike, Markus, Greg, Jamal)?

How about this?  Wojo keeps running a full roster out there that actually amps up the pressure on defense, can defend the PAR, locks up the paint, gives starters a rest while providing quality minutes, exploits match-ups rather than gets exploited, and doesn't Vichy the rim? And if some is playing with one hand or n one hip, can fully rest or redshirt?

"Celebrate the temporary"

I generally agree with this. Well stated.

I will be very impressed in Wojo's debating skills if he can convince Cain to redshirt, because I'm guessing Cain sees himself as a top-7 or top-8 player on our roster.

Comparing his potential redshirt situation to those of Sacar and Eke is laughable - one was coming off a freshman season in which he didn't contribute a lick because he wasn't good enough, the other was injured.

And even most of the Nova players ... they were redshirted before they became valuable contributors. Were any of them asked to redshirt after they just averaged 18 mpg over the final 12 games, 20 mpg over the final 7 games, and shot nearly 50% from distance on the season?

TAMU and I agree on 96% of stuff. Although I certainly understand some of the potential benefits of Cain redshirting, we disagree on this.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when Wojo says, "I know you were pretty valuable for us last season, especially down the stretch, but we want you to sit out this season."