Poll: Which of our 3 frosh has the highest ceiling?

[Its DJOver]

No one improved more than Theo this year.  He couldn't play 10 minutes without fouling out in the first half of the year.  He showed he could be a shot blocker and he showed a surprisingly soft jump hook.  Will need to work on FTs.  If he keeps up this improvement he'll be their best post player in a long time.

Cain could improve his lateral quickness.  Penn St was able to drive by him a few times.  3 point shooting and rebounding are already positives.  I imagine his FT shooting will improve along with his propensity to travel and make bad passes.  I'd agree that he could be somewhat like Jamail Wilson, but hopefully more aggressive.

I love Elliot's ability to block jump shots and the energy he brings.  He could be a bit like Blue, but with a better attitude and better jump shot.

Both Cain and Elliot will get stronger.  On defense they weren't able to stop the offense from backing them down for easy baskets. 

What's great is they all  seem to be hard workers.

Agree completely about Theo.  IMO the biggest improvement he can make on the defensive end is knowing when he can get a block, and when he should just box out, because a lot of times he altered the shot without getting the block, but then his man had an easy offensive rebound and put back.  This type of improvement only come from real game experience which is why any post season is extremely valuable for him, and other Freshman.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I heard someone called him "Smelliott" at Qdoba and Greg didn't even throw a punch.

This is very well done.

[skianth16]

Theo has shown some nice flashes of solid offensive moves this year, doing things a lot of bigs never do. That behind the back dribble to get to the rim against Oregon (I think?) was pretty impressive. If he is able to leverage that kind of natural athleticism and improve his fundamentals in the next 3 years, I think he's got the highest ceiling. I think he's the best pro prospect as well.

Greg and Jamal will be fun college players and will get bigger and better, but I don't think they'll be able to shine in a deep roster for the next few years. I think they'll fall into a 10-15 minute, 6-8 ppg kind of role along with Bailey and Sacar. Greg and Jamal will have some nice highlight reel material for sure, but I think they might have a hard time standing out both on our team and in our conference. Being a 6'4 - 6'8 athletic guy with some handles puts you in a class of guys that tend to dominate the college game. It's hard to work your way to the top of that group, especially without having some genetic advantage from the start.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

To those who voted Theo:

I really like his game but I can't see him being the focal point of an offense.  He'll still be a very valuable player but I don't think he'll ever match Davante Gardner or Robert Jackson on offense. 

Cain and Elliott have a better chance of becoming 2nd or 3rd options while also being good defenders and rebounders at their position.

To those who voted Greg:

I picked Cain as having the highest ceiling due to his combination of size, length, athleticism, and shooting. But it would not surprise me if Elliott ends up the better player.  I think Elliott is more likely to hit his ceiling than Cain.  I see Jamal having a wider variance in his development while Greg has a more predictable path.  At least that's what my gut tells me.

[jesmu84]

To those who voted Theo:

I really like his game but I can't see him being the focal point of an offense.  He'll still be a very valuable player but I don't think he'll ever match Davante Gardner or Robert Jackson on offense. 

Cain and Elliott have a better chance of becoming 2nd or 3rd options while also being good defenders and rebounders at their position.

To those who voted Greg:

I picked Cain as having the highest ceiling due to his combination of size, length, athleticism, and shooting. But it would not surprise me if Elliott ends up the better player.  I think Elliott is more likely to hit his ceiling than Cain.  I see Jamal having a wider variance in his development while Greg has a more predictable path.  At least that's what my gut tells me.

#CainNotAShooter

[WarriorFan]

It was close, however, I voted for Greg Elliot. He has the most upside because he can improve in three ways versus two for Cain and one for Theo. I see that as follows
Greg Elliott
1. Injury Improvement
2. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement
3. Strength Improvement
Jamal Cain
1. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement
2. Strength Improvement
Theo John

1. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement

I was very impressed with Elliotts performance this season. If all goes well he could be another Micheal Wilson for MU.  All three freshman are going to be a positive factor for MU in the Big East for years to come.

I think this is pretty accurate but there are some intangibles too.

Greg seems to have a natural confidence.  He drives and takes contact, is able to finish high, and never looked down after a mistake.  Just "my bad" and then hustled to the next play.  For this reason plus the above I think he has the highest ceiling.

Jamal showed signs of nerves and lack of confidence, even late in the season, and seemingly more as he got more minutes.  His "happy feet" travels, bad passes and loose handles for turnovers leave me questioning how long it will take for him to mature to the point that he can effectively use all of his physical gifts.  On pure athleticism and pureness of shot, he's ahead of Greg by a little - and the size helps - but he needs confidence.

Theo is the highest level of the 3 now - a serviceable backup center and good defender - but I worry that he's at his peak.  Plus I think we'll find out in a few years that he's already like 32 years old or something. 

[GooooMarquette]

#CainNotAShooter

Another candidate for Scoop Memefest 2018.

[Its DJOver]

I think this is pretty accurate but there are some intangibles too.

Greg seems to have a natural confidence.  He drives and takes contact, is able to finish high, and never looked down after a mistake.  Just "my bad" and then hustled to the next play.  For this reason plus the above I think he has the highest ceiling.

Jamal showed signs of nerves and lack of confidence, even late in the season, and seemingly more as he got more minutes.  His "happy feet" travels, bad passes and loose handles for turnovers leave me questioning how long it will take for him to mature to the point that he can effectively use all of his physical gifts.  On pure athleticism and pureness of shot, he's ahead of Greg by a little - and the size helps - but he needs confidence.

Theo is the highest level of the 3 now - a serviceable backup center and good defender - but I worry that he's at his peak.  Plus I think we'll find out in a few years that he's already like 32 years old or something.

Greg has the right attitude to have, always seemingly wanting to learn more and I think he will have the most consistent year to year growth.

Most of Jamal's mistake were just Freshman mistakes that are easily fixed with more experience.  I remember asking myself two years ago if Matt had ever set a screen before because he would get called for one or two moving screens per game.  This year, I would bet that his season total was in the single digits.  Jamal has the highest ceiling, but will likely have the most sporadic year to year jumps.

Theo's body put him ahead of the other two to start the year.  But I would certainly hope that he's not at his peak.  I don't know if I've ever seen as much growth from the start of a year to the end as I have in Theo.  If he can get that much better during the season, I doubt that he won't get any better for the next three years. 

Getting players to take the next step has really been hit or miss with Wojo (like many coaches), Sandy, Traci and Haanif couldn't take the next step and have any year to year improvement.  Sam and Markus could.  If Wojo can get all three Freshman to improve every year, then we will have a few successful years ahead of us. 

[Loose Cannon]

I'm looking for a Dead Heat at the Finish Line.

[Jay Bee]

You don't expect Theo to have a better offensive game than Faisal had?  I've already seen Theo do things that Faisal never developed.

I think Faisal was around a 6-7ppg guy, 58% shooter as a Sr... that's a pretty good guess for Theo. The potential for more is there, but a lot of the 'good things' that people point out he's been doing for years... in other words, the idea of "oooh, look at that!!... he develops his offense a little bit more and he could be amazing" isn't a new, 2017-18 thing.. wouldn't be opposed to him becoming a 22% shots guy who avg's 10 or 11 ppg, but not betting on it. Certainly could happen, but wouldn't be my projection.

Nonetheless, I love his physicality and having him on the court defensively.

[DCHoopster]

I think Faisal was around a 6-7ppg guy, 58% shooter as a Sr... that's a pretty good guess for Theo. The potential for more is there, but a lot of the 'good things' that people point out he's been doing for years... in other words, the idea of "oooh, look at that!!... he develops his offense a little bit more and he could be amazing" isn't a new, 2017-18 thing.. wouldn't be opposed to him becoming a 22% shots guy who avg's 10 or 11 ppg, but not betting on it. Certainly could happen, but wouldn't be my projection.

Nonetheless, I love his physicality and having him on the court defensively.

I would like to see the centers expand there basic back to the basket playing to some face up game!

[Goose]

jesmu

I do not think Cain is an upper level shooter, or even close at this point. That said, I hope he proves me wrong and shoots at the % next season. I have zero interest in being right on an opinion and gladly admit I was wrong. For the record, I have watched a lot of basketball in my lifetime and never have seen a "shooter" be way off on a shot and think it is going in. Every great shooter I have ever seen probably has 75% or higher idea if the ball is going in or not before it hits the apex of the shot. Just a little something I learned from a former great shooter and Marquette Warrior.

[GGGG]

jesmu

I do not think Cain is an upper level shooter, or even close at this point. That said, I hope he proves me wrong and shoots at the % next season. I have zero interest in being right on an opinion and gladly admit I was wrong. For the record, I have watched a lot of basketball in my lifetime and never have seen a "shooter" be way off on a shot and think it is going in. Every great shooter I have ever seen probably has 75% or higher idea if the ball is going in or not before it hits the apex of the shot. Just a little something I learned from a former great shooter and Marquette Warrior.

I think most great shooters know the instant it leaves their hands.

[Milkshakes]

Interesting that at the end of the year we pretty overwhelmingly thought Cain was our best freshman last year (had the most upside). Now he is a nonentity.  I don’t think we can say that the new additions to the team just leapfrogged him with the exception of Joey but that alone doesn’t explain it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I still think he has the most upside. He just needs longer to reach it

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Plz leave me out of the “we”.
Jamal is a really really good athlete but he is really porrly skilled.  Forsnt handle the ball well at all and his passing and strength with the ball are very poor.  Hard to play the wing at this level with those deficiencies.  Baileys skill level is vastly superior.  This lack of skill causes mustakes which is affecting his confidence.  Needs hours a day in the gym working on his ball handling. 
Decent defender, good rebounder, but offensively is a spot up shooter only and a turnover waiting to happen otherwise.  Tuff gig when ur fighting sacar, joey, n bailey for minutes

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Cain's game fit better with last year's roster.  Like Sand-knit said, Cain is a weak ball handler.  Last year, he could play with Rowsey and Howard.  Two ball handlers mitigated this weakness. Cain is not good enough to be a secondary ball handler. 

Competition at the forward spots is a lot tougher this year, too. Last year, it was Sam and Sacar with Cain off the bench.
This year, Joey is playing the 4, Sam is playing the 3 and 4, Anim plays some 3, and Bailey is in the mix as well.  Hard to find minutes for everybody.

[Marquette4life]

Interesting that at the end of the year we pretty overwhelmingly thought Cain was our best freshman last year (had the most upside). Now he is a nonentity.  I don’t think we can say that the new additions to the team just leapfrogged him with the exception of Joey but that alone doesn’t explain it.

I think the only reason we thought cain had the most potential was because of how crazy athletic he is. Still think he has a lot of potential but greg is probably the most promising

[tower912]

No, I pretty much think it is because the newcomers leapfrogged him and Sacar also improved.

[MU82]

Cain's game fit better with last year's roster.  Like Sand-knit said, Cain is a weak ball handler.  Last year, he could play with Rowsey and Howard.  Two ball handlers mitigated this weakness. Cain is not good enough to be a secondary ball handler. 

Competition at the forward spots is a lot tougher this year, too. Last year, it was Sam and Sacar with Cain off the bench.
This year, Joey is playing the 4, Sam is playing the 3 and 4, Anim plays some 3, and Bailey is in the mix as well.  Hard to find minutes for everybody.

Yessir, on all of the above.

[Loose Cannon]

I still think he has the most upside. He just needs longer to reach it

I think there is Truth in this.

[Tha Hound]

Interesting that at the end of the year we pretty overwhelmingly thought Cain was our best freshman last year (had the most upside). Now he is a nonentity.  I don’t think we can say that the new additions to the team just leapfrogged him with the exception of Joey but that alone doesn’t explain it.

Best freshman /= Most upside

[skianth16]

I think the only reason we thought cain had the most potential was because of how crazy athletic he is. Still think he has a lot of potential but greg is probably the most promising

Is Jamal crazy athletic, or does he just look better by comparison on MU because our roster is more skill-based than athletic?

I've thought about this a number of times the last year and half because posters here rave about his athleticism, but I've never been wow-ed. He's a good athlete for sure, but I think we may just be used to guys like Sam, Katin, Heldt, Fischer even Rowsey and Cheatham to an extent. I think most of these guys were better basketball players than athletes.

Jamal is more athletic - quicker, better jumper, etc - than the typical MU player in recent years, but I think we've just had guys that were less than average for P6 basketball lately. If we compare Jamal to other guards or wings in major conferences, I don't think he stands out quite the way he does here at MU.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Is Jamal crazy athletic, or does he just look better by comparison on MU because our roster is more skill-based than athletic?

I've thought about this a number of times the last year and half because posters here rave about his athleticism, but I've never been wow-ed. He's a good athlete for sure, but I think we may just be used to guys like Sam, Katin, Heldt, Fischer even Rowsey and Cheatham to an extent. I think most of these guys were better basketball players than athletes.

Jamal is more athletic - quicker, better jumper, etc - than the typical MU player in recent years, but I think we've just had guys that were less than average for P6 basketball lately. If we compare Jamal to other guards or wings in major conferences, I don't think he stands out quite the way he does here at MU.

I think Cain's poor ball handling makes him look less athletic.  Other times, he's thinking so much that his reaction time isn't quick. Watch him sky for a rebound sometime.  He's a top athlete but it hasn't translated 100% to the court.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I think Cain's poor ball handling makes him look less athletic.  Other times, he's thinking so much that his reaction time isn't quick. Watch him sky for a rebound sometime.  He's a top athlete but it hasn't translated 100% to the court.

Agreed, and his skinny frame gets him bumped around a bit so that affects perception too.

He's also not as fast-twitch as some other explosive athletes people traditionally think of (I'm thinking like a Dominic James / Kemba Walker-type first step), but his ability to get up in the air for a board is very impressive.