Poll: Which of our 3 frosh has the highest ceiling?

[Marcus92]

My vote goes to Cain. His athleticism, length, quickness and instincts helped him lead the team in Stl% as a freshman. I'm interested to see how his offense develops. Think he has all the tools to become a special player.

[MUfan12]

*Elliott.

I think Cain has better ball skills than the other two, but I love all of 'em. Those guys get after it.

[WayOfTheWarrior]

Just hope Greg/Jamal freaking eat some steak, potatoes, and drink a gallon of milk a day. I voted Jamal.

[Floorslapper]

Cain...and I don't think it is even close (and I am also high on Greg and Theo).  Cain can be a star.

[connie]

Do we have to choose?  All three have shown some real flashes.  Elliot has been most consistent, Cain seems like he may have more spots he can play, and Theo has the look of being a true force, but just seems so raw.  Very much looking forward to all three developing.

[Marcus92]

Sorry, don't know how or why I put "Greg Williams" in the poll instead of "Greg Elliott." Fixed now. Connie, you don't have to choose; voting in the poll isn't required. Just meant to be something fun for discussion, and to take everyone's minds off the fact that there is no MU basketball to watch for about 7 months.

[tower912]

A tough decision.    All showed enough glimpses to generate optimism.     

[TallTitan34]

Theo's behind the back into an attempted dunk last night.... Can't wait to see him as a senior.

I like the ceiling of all three though.

[OhioGoldenEagle]

Highest Ceiling or Best Pro Prospects?

I voted Theo because I see he has best path to the NBA, however Jamal probably has the highest ceiling. 

Jamal Cain = Jamil Wilson???

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Cain but still love the other two. Theo might have as much potential but he is limited by his position. Today's game just doesnt have a lot of room for superstar centers. Greg I think has the most potential as a lockdown defender

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

1. Cain

Best case: Mikal Bridges
More likely: Jamil Wilson

2. Elliott

Best case: Better shooting Vander Blue
More likely: Trent Lockett in Vander Blue's body

3. John

Best case: Faisal Abraham with bit more offense
More likely: Faisal Abraham

[GGGG]

1. Cain

Best case: Mikal Bridges
More likely: Jamil Wilson

2. Elliott

Best case: Better shooting Vander Blue
More likely: Trent Lockett in Vander Blue's body

3. John

Best case: Faisal Abraham with bit more offense
More likely: Faisal Abraham

This was well done.

[Lighthouse 84]

I said it during the EIU game and I've been saying it since.  Jamal is going to be good.  Real good.  He got better over the course of the year and with another summer with Todd in the weight room, the kid is going to be a beast.

[Goose]

Lazar

For Cain and Elliott those are pretty lofty expectations. I think the most likely predictions are lofty. Hope you are right.

[Marcus92]

The one I might disagree with is Faisal Abraham.

In his freshman year, Faisal averaged 1.4 ppg and 1.5 rpg in the Great Midwest Conference. Granted, that was on a team with seniors Damon Key and Jim McIlvane, plus sophomore Amal McCaskill. But Theo surpassed those numbers pretty easily, averaging 3.9 ppg and 2.3 rpg in a much tougher Big East conference.

For his career, Faisal averaged 4.4 ppg and 4.6 rpg. From what I saw this season, Theo's ceiling could be significantly higher.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Faisal was significantly more coordinated than theo

[HammerScreen]

Excited for all three for sure. I voted Theo - I thought his touch around the rim got a lot better towards the end of the year

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

My comparison to jamal cain would be chris crawford and not just for the travels and turnovers their freshman seasons.  They have/had very similar builds and games. Some will remember chris was extremely athletic too, but not to jamals level.  If jamal can grind n commit to the process i think he can folliw the same ascension in his game that Crawford did , which was exponential growth each n every year.  I think chris if it were not for the injuries woukd have had an even longer n more successful NBA career, every time he started killing it he gad a major injury.

Fyi i chose greg, love that kids potential.

[Pakuni]

1. Cain

Best case: Mikal Bridges
More likely: Jamil Wilson

2. Elliott

Best case: Better shooting Vander Blue
More likely: Trent Lockett in Vander Blue's body

3. John

Best case: Faisal Abraham with bit more offense
More likely: Faisal Abraham

Agree, though Theo might have a lot more offense than Faisal (who, let's face it, had almost no offensive beyond put-backs and two-footers). Theo has some semblance of a post-up game now, and should only get better over the next three years. Definitely has the potential of being a 10 ppg/8 rpg guy in a couple of years.

[GooooMarquette]

I like all their ceilings, and think this our most balanced freshman class in a while. IMHO, all will be very good but not superstars - if any of the three ever makes 1st team all Big East, I'd be pleasantly surprised, but not shocked.

I chose Jamal because of his combo of athletic ability, hustle and decent shooting. If he eats enough Beef 'n Cheddars and hits the weight room, he'll have an upset stomach and a very high upside....

[lohaus]

I picked Jamal for the simple fact he had that monster follow up dunk early in the season.   Then he had the game where he nailed a bunch of 3s.  Last he was on the top of the zone defense.  I like his steals, finishes, and set shooting.

Theo is going to be what he is. . . A true big man.  I also love watching Greg play and can't wait to see what he can do with two thumbs on the court.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Splitting hairs IMO but in order I'd go:

Jamal
Theo
Greg

Aside from the obvious measurables, Cain has a nice shooting touch and two of his KenPom statistical comps are Hollis Thompson & Caleb Martin.

Theo is next on my list for measurables, defensive instincts, intensity, and improved skill set. Also, interestingly one of his statistical comps is Harry Giles, a one & done big from Duke last year.

Greg's fram looks like the least likely to put on weight, and his shot needs the most work. Wild card is if his hand injury prevented his ball handling from being as tight as needed and that healing causes him to drastically improve in that area. That would givie us a long bouncy PG with a good feel for the game. He's a nice passer already and has good defensive instincts.

Lot of upside with these guys and they each made nice contributions right away. Jamal and Greg are young for thier class, so that gives them a higher ceiling too. Excited to see them develop over their careers.

[bilsu]

Cain easily. I think by the end of next season he will be better than Sam.

[tower912]

Only if Sam is slow to recover.

[SaveOD238]

1. Cain

Best case: Mikal Bridges
More likely: Jamil Wilson

2. Elliott

Best case: Better shooting Vander Blue
More likely: Trent Lockett in Vander Blue's body

3. John

Best case: Faisal Abraham with bit more offense
More likely: Faisal Abraham

Could I deal with a team that had a newer version of Jamil Wilson, Trent Lockett, and Faisal Abraham in their senior years? Yes.  Yes I could.

[Its DJOver]

Cain has the highest ceiling, but Theo will make the biggest jump from this year to next.

[GB Warrior]

1. Cain

Best case: Mikal Bridges
More likely: Jamil Wilson

2. Elliott

Best case: Better shooting Vander Blue
More likely: Trent Lockett in Vander Blue's body

3. John

Best case: Faisal Abraham with bit more offense
More likely: Faisal Abraham

I agree with this analysis.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Cain easily. I think by the end of next season he will be better than Sam.

Oh jesus 😂😂

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Theo, because if you disagree he will come kick your ass.

[MU82]

Splitting hairs IMO but in order I'd go:

Jamal
Theo
Greg

Aside from the obvious measurables, Cain has a nice shooting touch and two of his KenPom statistical comps are Hollis Thompson & Caleb Martin.

Theo is next on my list for measurables, defensive instincts, intensity, and improved skill set. Also, interestingly one of his statistical comps is Harry Giles, a one & done big from Duke last year.

Greg's fram looks like the least likely to put on weight, and his shot needs the most work. Wild card is if his hand injury prevented his ball handling from being as tight as needed and that healing causes him to drastically improve in that area. That would givie us a long bouncy PG with a good feel for the game. He's a nice passer already and has good defensive instincts.

Lot of upside with these guys and they each made nice contributions right away. Jamal and Greg are young for thier class, so that gives them a higher ceiling too. Excited to see them develop over their careers.

I really like this comment, EFR - the second time in about a half-hour I have said that about one of your comments. We agree ... so you must be really smart!

Seriously, I think a few posters are under-rating how much better Theo got over the course of the season. That little hook of his became very reliable, he made a baseline jumper a few games ago, and yesterday he was the only MU player really battling on the boards. He even made 70% of his FTs from Jan. 1 on. His hands aren't the greatest yet, nor is his decision-making, but those things can improve. At the very worst, he will be a super-solid backup big for 4 years - and every team needs one of them. But I think he'll be better than that. By the second half of the BE season, he was miles ahead of most of our other recent bigs as freshmen.

Cain can be a stud. Add a little bulk, let the game slow down a little, and wow. He already is a disruptive defender, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't even know what he's doing out there. He shot 3s way better than I expected. I doubt he'll be better than a healthy Sam next season (as one of our colleagues opined), but I think he really has a high ceiling.

And I like your use of the term "wild card" with Elliott, because that's exactly what he is. What if he gets fully healthy and has a great offseason of work with all of the PGs on our staff? Maybe he actually will be able to play some PG. That would be huge even if we sign a grad transfer. Even if he's only mostly a backup 2, as he was this season, he can be a very useful player for us.

Excited about all 3 of them.

[GooooMarquette]

Theo, because if you disagree he will come kick your ass.

Marquette's very own Chuck Norris...

[Coleman]

Theo John, if you have the right guards around him.

[Benny B]

Theo will make the most improvement, but I hope I'm proven wrong when I see his ceiling being just as high as Davante's... mind you, that can still be a pretty high ceiling, but he's really going to have to work on his defense and lateral motion (i.e. propensity to foul) before I see him as anything more than the next coming of Detlef Schrempf (i.e. the greatest 6th man ever).

Jamal made some clutch baskets you want to see in tournament play; that's always a good sign from a freshman.  I love that he stepped up when the team needed him, grabbed over 100 rebounds (3rd on the team).  But Greg bested him by 2x in assists and blocks.

I'd like to see Greg at 100% health in a clutch March situation before confirming my vote, but for now, it goes to him simply on basketball IQ alone - though he has to improve his A/TO ratio (even though he was 3rd on the team behind Sam and Rowsey).  Granted, he needs to be coached more on D-I defense (they all do), but I like his vision that - along with added strength and confidence - could easily turn him into a BE 1st teamer, possibly even a POY contender.

[brewcity77]

Jamal unquestionably has the highest ceiling. He is an above the rim player who can score inside and out, has an absolute nose for the ball in rebounding, and makes a ton of correctable mistakes. While the last one may not seem like a positive, once he stops traveling and throwing errant passes, gets his timing down, and adds muscle, he could be an all-conference player.

Greg was the most polished coming in and Theo could be a legit Big East starter at the 5, but in terms strictly of ceiling, it's Cain and I don't see any way it's even debatable.

[Herman Cain]

It was close, however, I voted for Greg Elliot. He has the most upside because he can improve in three ways versus two for Cain and one for Theo. I see that as follows
Greg Elliott
1. Injury Improvement
2. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement
3. Strength Improvement
Jamal Cain
1. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement
2. Strength Improvement
Theo John
1. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement

I was very impressed with Elliotts performance this season. If all goes well he could be another Micheal Wilson for MU.  All three freshman are going to be a positive factor for MU in the Big East for years to come. 

[Disco Hippie]

Like Herman and Benny B, I too have to go with Greg.  He's nowhere near as graceful or as good an outside shooter as Jamal and looks like a Jr. High school kid compared to Theo, but man is he fun to watch!  Easily the the most explosive player on the roster.  One of the things that frustrated me most about this past season (besides our complete lack of paint presence) was that we should have been a much better transition / fast break team than we were.   I think with a season down and a summer of prep, Greg will be THE big play guy next season.  Whether or not that translates to "highest ceiling" I can't say.

[MU82]

Theo will make the most improvement, but I hope I'm proven wrong when I see his ceiling being just as high as Davante's... mind you, that can still be a pretty high ceiling, but he's really going to have to work on his defense and lateral motion (i.e. propensity to foul) before I see him as anything more than the next coming of Detlef Schrempf (i.e. the greatest 6th man ever).

Jamal made some clutch baskets you want to see in tournament play; that's always a good sign from a freshman.  I love that he stepped up when the team needed him, grabbed over 100 rebounds (3rd on the team).  But Greg bested him by 2x in assists and blocks.

I'd like to see Greg at 100% health in a clutch March situation before confirming my vote, but for now, it goes to him simply on basketball IQ alone - though he has to improve his A/TO ratio (even though he was 3rd on the team behind Sam and Rowsey).  Granted, he needs to be coached more on D-I defense (they all do), but I like his vision that - along with added strength and confidence - could easily turn him into a BE 1st teamer, possibly even a POY contender.

Great stuff in here.

One quibble, though ...

<<Detlef Schrempf (i.e. the greatest 6th man ever)>>

Kevin McHale, Vinnie Johnson and Bobby Jones would like a word with you!

[Benny B]

Great stuff in here.

One quibble, though ...

<<Detlef Schrempf (i.e. the greatest 6th man ever)>>

Kevin McHale, Vinnie Johnson and Bobby Jones would like a word with you!

Don’t recall any of those three getting their very own holographic collector card in the ‘91-92 debut of Upper Deck’s NBA trading cards.

[D'Lo Brown]

Theo needs to improve on intimidating the referees. If he can smile at them more, maybe tell a joke or two, he will be much improved next year. I think he needs to work on his smiling.

Seriously though, I think Theo might be the player with the highest potential and probably the clearest path to minutes over his career (though as a C, his minutes will always be somewhat split). I love the other players and I think it's incredibly close, too close to call really at this point. Any one of them could be scouted/exploited better next season but I just have a hard time seeing anyone stopping such an incredible physical force like Theo once he develops some of the nuances and gains the confidence. I think he was a little in over his head this season, even though that was an ideal experience for him. He has the most to potentially gain. I think his alley-oop game as well as face-to-the-basket game can be substantially improved and that he will get better at blocking shots without fouling. Having watched a lot of Uconn games as a child, I know the value of a physical shot-blocking force down low - we will need it as our trajectory ascends and we have to deal with beating better teams.

Jamal had some incredibly flashy rebounds/dunks/3's and Greg showed an ability to grab steals/be a pesky defender/dish/play a solid all-around game. But I think that Theo really stands out as an MU player, now and in the future, he is an intimidating force and we really have not had a great record of acquiring those players in Wojo's tenure. We will need him.

But I absolutely could be wrong, so much still up in the air with these guys, and who knows what future recruits we will see.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Like Herman and Benny B, I too have to go with Greg.  He's nowhere near as graceful or as good an outside shooter as Jamal and looks like a Jr. High school kid compared to Theo, but man is he fun to watch!  Easily the the most explosive player on the roster.  One of the things that frustrated me most about this past season (besides our complete lack of paint presence) was that we should have been a much better transition / fast break team than we were.   I think with a season down and a summer of prep, Greg will be THE big play guy next season.  Whether or not that translates to "highest ceiling" I can't say.

It's hard to run a fast break when you can't stop the other team from scoring.

[KampusFoods]

Cain easily. I think by the end of next season he will be better than Sam.

[Jay Bee]

The one I might disagree with is Faisal Abraham.

In his freshman year, Faisal averaged 1.4 ppg and 1.5 rpg in the Great Midwest Conference. Granted, that was on a team with seniors Damon Key and Jim McIlvane, plus sophomore Amal McCaskill. But Theo surpassed those numbers pretty easily, averaging 3.9 ppg and 2.3 rpg in a much tougher Big East conference.

For his career, Faisal averaged 4.4 ppg and 4.6 rpg. From what I saw this season, Theo's ceiling could be significantly higher.

You’re looking at the wrong stats. Faisal is a great comp.

Hoping for #’s (not speaking on pervgsmw/Avgs) like oose barro

[TSmith34, Inc.]

You’re looking at the wrong stats. Faisal is a great comp.

Hoping for #’s (not speaking on pervgsmw/Avgs) like oose barro

You don't expect Theo to have a better offensive game than Faisal had?  I've already seen Theo do things that Faisal never developed.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I really like this comment, EFR - the second time in about a half-hour I have said that about one of your comments. We agree ... so you must be really smart!

Seriously, I think a few posters are under-rating how much better Theo got over the course of the season. That little hook of his became very reliable, he made a baseline jumper a few games ago, and yesterday he was the only MU player really battling on the boards. He even made 70% of his FTs from Jan. 1 on. His hands aren't the greatest yet, nor is his decision-making, but those things can improve. At the very worst, he will be a super-solid backup big for 4 years - and every team needs one of them. But I think he'll be better than that. By the second half of the BE season, he was miles ahead of most of our other recent bigs as freshmen.

Cain can be a stud. Add a little bulk, let the game slow down a little, and wow. He already is a disruptive defender, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't even know what he's doing out there. He shot 3s way better than I expected. I doubt he'll be better than a healthy Sam next season (as one of our colleagues opined), but I think he really has a high ceiling.

And I like your use of the term "wild card" with Elliott, because that's exactly what he is. What if he gets fully healthy and has a great offseason of work with all of the PGs on our staff? Maybe he actually will be able to play some PG. That would be huge even if we sign a grad transfer. Even if he's only mostly a backup 2, as he was this season, he can be a very useful player for us.

Excited about all 3 of them.

Ha I often find myself agreeing with you too. Saves me a lot of typing!

[jesmu84]

Unsure.

But it's not Cain. Since he's not a shooter.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Goose-

High ceilings aren't always reached.  Cain needs exponential improvement to become Mikal Bridges. But Mikal Bridges had his own meteoric rise.  He went from red shirt to probable NBA lottery pick in 4 years.

Odds are Cain lands short of that. That is why I also set a more realistic expectation. If Cain lands somewhere between Wilson and Bridges I will be very happy.

[Seashells]

No one improved more than Theo this year.  He couldn't play 10 minutes without fouling out in the first half of the year.  He showed he could be a shot blocker and he showed a surprisingly soft jump hook.  Will need to work on FTs.  If he keeps up this improvement he'll be their best post player in a long time.

Cain could improve his lateral quickness.  Penn St was able to drive by him a few times.  3 point shooting and rebounding are already positives.  I imagine his FT shooting will improve along with his propensity to travel and make bad passes.  I'd agree that he could be somewhat like Jamail Wilson, but hopefully more aggressive.

I love Elliot's ability to block jump shots and the energy he brings.  He could be a bit like Blue, but with a better attitude and better jump shot.

Both Cain and Elliot will get stronger.  On defense they weren't able to stop the offense from backing them down for easy baskets. 

What's great is they all  seem to be hard workers.

[MU82]

Don’t recall any of those three getting their very own holographic collector card in the ‘91-92 debut of Upper Deck’s NBA trading cards.

Damn! Why didn't you say that in the first place?

Case closed!!!!

[MU82]

I love Elliot's ability to block jump shots and the energy he brings.  He could be a bit like Blue, but with a better attitude

Greg is already flawlessly executing the slap of five!

#betterthanvander

[Bocephys]

Greg is already flawlessly executing the slap of five!

#betterthanvander

I heard someone called him "Smelliott" at Qdoba and Greg didn't even throw a punch.

[Its DJOver]

No one improved more than Theo this year.  He couldn't play 10 minutes without fouling out in the first half of the year.  He showed he could be a shot blocker and he showed a surprisingly soft jump hook.  Will need to work on FTs.  If he keeps up this improvement he'll be their best post player in a long time.

Cain could improve his lateral quickness.  Penn St was able to drive by him a few times.  3 point shooting and rebounding are already positives.  I imagine his FT shooting will improve along with his propensity to travel and make bad passes.  I'd agree that he could be somewhat like Jamail Wilson, but hopefully more aggressive.

I love Elliot's ability to block jump shots and the energy he brings.  He could be a bit like Blue, but with a better attitude and better jump shot.

Both Cain and Elliot will get stronger.  On defense they weren't able to stop the offense from backing them down for easy baskets. 

What's great is they all  seem to be hard workers.

Agree completely about Theo.  IMO the biggest improvement he can make on the defensive end is knowing when he can get a block, and when he should just box out, because a lot of times he altered the shot without getting the block, but then his man had an easy offensive rebound and put back.  This type of improvement only come from real game experience which is why any post season is extremely valuable for him, and other Freshman.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I heard someone called him "Smelliott" at Qdoba and Greg didn't even throw a punch.

This is very well done.

[skianth16]

Theo has shown some nice flashes of solid offensive moves this year, doing things a lot of bigs never do. That behind the back dribble to get to the rim against Oregon (I think?) was pretty impressive. If he is able to leverage that kind of natural athleticism and improve his fundamentals in the next 3 years, I think he's got the highest ceiling. I think he's the best pro prospect as well.

Greg and Jamal will be fun college players and will get bigger and better, but I don't think they'll be able to shine in a deep roster for the next few years. I think they'll fall into a 10-15 minute, 6-8 ppg kind of role along with Bailey and Sacar. Greg and Jamal will have some nice highlight reel material for sure, but I think they might have a hard time standing out both on our team and in our conference. Being a 6'4 - 6'8 athletic guy with some handles puts you in a class of guys that tend to dominate the college game. It's hard to work your way to the top of that group, especially without having some genetic advantage from the start.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

To those who voted Theo:

I really like his game but I can't see him being the focal point of an offense.  He'll still be a very valuable player but I don't think he'll ever match Davante Gardner or Robert Jackson on offense. 

Cain and Elliott have a better chance of becoming 2nd or 3rd options while also being good defenders and rebounders at their position.

To those who voted Greg:

I picked Cain as having the highest ceiling due to his combination of size, length, athleticism, and shooting. But it would not surprise me if Elliott ends up the better player.  I think Elliott is more likely to hit his ceiling than Cain.  I see Jamal having a wider variance in his development while Greg has a more predictable path.  At least that's what my gut tells me.

[jesmu84]

To those who voted Theo:

I really like his game but I can't see him being the focal point of an offense.  He'll still be a very valuable player but I don't think he'll ever match Davante Gardner or Robert Jackson on offense. 

Cain and Elliott have a better chance of becoming 2nd or 3rd options while also being good defenders and rebounders at their position.

To those who voted Greg:

I picked Cain as having the highest ceiling due to his combination of size, length, athleticism, and shooting. But it would not surprise me if Elliott ends up the better player.  I think Elliott is more likely to hit his ceiling than Cain.  I see Jamal having a wider variance in his development while Greg has a more predictable path.  At least that's what my gut tells me.

#CainNotAShooter

[WarriorFan]

It was close, however, I voted for Greg Elliot. He has the most upside because he can improve in three ways versus two for Cain and one for Theo. I see that as follows
Greg Elliott
1. Injury Improvement
2. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement
3. Strength Improvement
Jamal Cain
1. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement
2. Strength Improvement
Theo John

1. Normal Freshman to Sophomore Improvement

I was very impressed with Elliotts performance this season. If all goes well he could be another Micheal Wilson for MU.  All three freshman are going to be a positive factor for MU in the Big East for years to come.

I think this is pretty accurate but there are some intangibles too.

Greg seems to have a natural confidence.  He drives and takes contact, is able to finish high, and never looked down after a mistake.  Just "my bad" and then hustled to the next play.  For this reason plus the above I think he has the highest ceiling.

Jamal showed signs of nerves and lack of confidence, even late in the season, and seemingly more as he got more minutes.  His "happy feet" travels, bad passes and loose handles for turnovers leave me questioning how long it will take for him to mature to the point that he can effectively use all of his physical gifts.  On pure athleticism and pureness of shot, he's ahead of Greg by a little - and the size helps - but he needs confidence.

Theo is the highest level of the 3 now - a serviceable backup center and good defender - but I worry that he's at his peak.  Plus I think we'll find out in a few years that he's already like 32 years old or something. 

[GooooMarquette]

#CainNotAShooter

Another candidate for Scoop Memefest 2018.

[Its DJOver]

I think this is pretty accurate but there are some intangibles too.

Greg seems to have a natural confidence.  He drives and takes contact, is able to finish high, and never looked down after a mistake.  Just "my bad" and then hustled to the next play.  For this reason plus the above I think he has the highest ceiling.

Jamal showed signs of nerves and lack of confidence, even late in the season, and seemingly more as he got more minutes.  His "happy feet" travels, bad passes and loose handles for turnovers leave me questioning how long it will take for him to mature to the point that he can effectively use all of his physical gifts.  On pure athleticism and pureness of shot, he's ahead of Greg by a little - and the size helps - but he needs confidence.

Theo is the highest level of the 3 now - a serviceable backup center and good defender - but I worry that he's at his peak.  Plus I think we'll find out in a few years that he's already like 32 years old or something.

Greg has the right attitude to have, always seemingly wanting to learn more and I think he will have the most consistent year to year growth.

Most of Jamal's mistake were just Freshman mistakes that are easily fixed with more experience.  I remember asking myself two years ago if Matt had ever set a screen before because he would get called for one or two moving screens per game.  This year, I would bet that his season total was in the single digits.  Jamal has the highest ceiling, but will likely have the most sporadic year to year jumps.

Theo's body put him ahead of the other two to start the year.  But I would certainly hope that he's not at his peak.  I don't know if I've ever seen as much growth from the start of a year to the end as I have in Theo.  If he can get that much better during the season, I doubt that he won't get any better for the next three years. 

Getting players to take the next step has really been hit or miss with Wojo (like many coaches), Sandy, Traci and Haanif couldn't take the next step and have any year to year improvement.  Sam and Markus could.  If Wojo can get all three Freshman to improve every year, then we will have a few successful years ahead of us. 

[Loose Cannon]

I'm looking for a Dead Heat at the Finish Line.

[Jay Bee]

You don't expect Theo to have a better offensive game than Faisal had?  I've already seen Theo do things that Faisal never developed.

I think Faisal was around a 6-7ppg guy, 58% shooter as a Sr... that's a pretty good guess for Theo. The potential for more is there, but a lot of the 'good things' that people point out he's been doing for years... in other words, the idea of "oooh, look at that!!... he develops his offense a little bit more and he could be amazing" isn't a new, 2017-18 thing.. wouldn't be opposed to him becoming a 22% shots guy who avg's 10 or 11 ppg, but not betting on it. Certainly could happen, but wouldn't be my projection.

Nonetheless, I love his physicality and having him on the court defensively.

[DCHoopster]

I think Faisal was around a 6-7ppg guy, 58% shooter as a Sr... that's a pretty good guess for Theo. The potential for more is there, but a lot of the 'good things' that people point out he's been doing for years... in other words, the idea of "oooh, look at that!!... he develops his offense a little bit more and he could be amazing" isn't a new, 2017-18 thing.. wouldn't be opposed to him becoming a 22% shots guy who avg's 10 or 11 ppg, but not betting on it. Certainly could happen, but wouldn't be my projection.

Nonetheless, I love his physicality and having him on the court defensively.

I would like to see the centers expand there basic back to the basket playing to some face up game!

[Goose]

jesmu

I do not think Cain is an upper level shooter, or even close at this point. That said, I hope he proves me wrong and shoots at the % next season. I have zero interest in being right on an opinion and gladly admit I was wrong. For the record, I have watched a lot of basketball in my lifetime and never have seen a "shooter" be way off on a shot and think it is going in. Every great shooter I have ever seen probably has 75% or higher idea if the ball is going in or not before it hits the apex of the shot. Just a little something I learned from a former great shooter and Marquette Warrior.

[GGGG]

jesmu

I do not think Cain is an upper level shooter, or even close at this point. That said, I hope he proves me wrong and shoots at the % next season. I have zero interest in being right on an opinion and gladly admit I was wrong. For the record, I have watched a lot of basketball in my lifetime and never have seen a "shooter" be way off on a shot and think it is going in. Every great shooter I have ever seen probably has 75% or higher idea if the ball is going in or not before it hits the apex of the shot. Just a little something I learned from a former great shooter and Marquette Warrior.

I think most great shooters know the instant it leaves their hands.

[Milkshakes]

Interesting that at the end of the year we pretty overwhelmingly thought Cain was our best freshman last year (had the most upside). Now he is a nonentity.  I don’t think we can say that the new additions to the team just leapfrogged him with the exception of Joey but that alone doesn’t explain it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I still think he has the most upside. He just needs longer to reach it

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Plz leave me out of the “we”.
Jamal is a really really good athlete but he is really porrly skilled.  Forsnt handle the ball well at all and his passing and strength with the ball are very poor.  Hard to play the wing at this level with those deficiencies.  Baileys skill level is vastly superior.  This lack of skill causes mustakes which is affecting his confidence.  Needs hours a day in the gym working on his ball handling. 
Decent defender, good rebounder, but offensively is a spot up shooter only and a turnover waiting to happen otherwise.  Tuff gig when ur fighting sacar, joey, n bailey for minutes

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Cain's game fit better with last year's roster.  Like Sand-knit said, Cain is a weak ball handler.  Last year, he could play with Rowsey and Howard.  Two ball handlers mitigated this weakness. Cain is not good enough to be a secondary ball handler. 

Competition at the forward spots is a lot tougher this year, too. Last year, it was Sam and Sacar with Cain off the bench.
This year, Joey is playing the 4, Sam is playing the 3 and 4, Anim plays some 3, and Bailey is in the mix as well.  Hard to find minutes for everybody.

[Marquette4life]

Interesting that at the end of the year we pretty overwhelmingly thought Cain was our best freshman last year (had the most upside). Now he is a nonentity.  I don’t think we can say that the new additions to the team just leapfrogged him with the exception of Joey but that alone doesn’t explain it.

I think the only reason we thought cain had the most potential was because of how crazy athletic he is. Still think he has a lot of potential but greg is probably the most promising

[tower912]

No, I pretty much think it is because the newcomers leapfrogged him and Sacar also improved.

[MU82]

Cain's game fit better with last year's roster.  Like Sand-knit said, Cain is a weak ball handler.  Last year, he could play with Rowsey and Howard.  Two ball handlers mitigated this weakness. Cain is not good enough to be a secondary ball handler. 

Competition at the forward spots is a lot tougher this year, too. Last year, it was Sam and Sacar with Cain off the bench.
This year, Joey is playing the 4, Sam is playing the 3 and 4, Anim plays some 3, and Bailey is in the mix as well.  Hard to find minutes for everybody.

Yessir, on all of the above.

[Loose Cannon]

I still think he has the most upside. He just needs longer to reach it

I think there is Truth in this.

[Tha Hound]

Interesting that at the end of the year we pretty overwhelmingly thought Cain was our best freshman last year (had the most upside). Now he is a nonentity.  I don’t think we can say that the new additions to the team just leapfrogged him with the exception of Joey but that alone doesn’t explain it.

Best freshman /= Most upside

[skianth16]

I think the only reason we thought cain had the most potential was because of how crazy athletic he is. Still think he has a lot of potential but greg is probably the most promising

Is Jamal crazy athletic, or does he just look better by comparison on MU because our roster is more skill-based than athletic?

I've thought about this a number of times the last year and half because posters here rave about his athleticism, but I've never been wow-ed. He's a good athlete for sure, but I think we may just be used to guys like Sam, Katin, Heldt, Fischer even Rowsey and Cheatham to an extent. I think most of these guys were better basketball players than athletes.

Jamal is more athletic - quicker, better jumper, etc - than the typical MU player in recent years, but I think we've just had guys that were less than average for P6 basketball lately. If we compare Jamal to other guards or wings in major conferences, I don't think he stands out quite the way he does here at MU.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Is Jamal crazy athletic, or does he just look better by comparison on MU because our roster is more skill-based than athletic?

I've thought about this a number of times the last year and half because posters here rave about his athleticism, but I've never been wow-ed. He's a good athlete for sure, but I think we may just be used to guys like Sam, Katin, Heldt, Fischer even Rowsey and Cheatham to an extent. I think most of these guys were better basketball players than athletes.

Jamal is more athletic - quicker, better jumper, etc - than the typical MU player in recent years, but I think we've just had guys that were less than average for P6 basketball lately. If we compare Jamal to other guards or wings in major conferences, I don't think he stands out quite the way he does here at MU.

I think Cain's poor ball handling makes him look less athletic.  Other times, he's thinking so much that his reaction time isn't quick. Watch him sky for a rebound sometime.  He's a top athlete but it hasn't translated 100% to the court.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I think Cain's poor ball handling makes him look less athletic.  Other times, he's thinking so much that his reaction time isn't quick. Watch him sky for a rebound sometime.  He's a top athlete but it hasn't translated 100% to the court.

Agreed, and his skinny frame gets him bumped around a bit so that affects perception too.

He's also not as fast-twitch as some other explosive athletes people traditionally think of (I'm thinking like a Dominic James / Kemba Walker-type first step), but his ability to get up in the air for a board is very impressive.

[skianth16]

I think Cain's poor ball handling makes him look less athletic.  Other times, he's thinking so much that his reaction time isn't quick. Watch him sky for a rebound sometime.  He's a top athlete but it hasn't translated 100% to the court.

Agreed, and his skinny frame gets him bumped around a bit so that affects perception too.

He's also not as fast-twitch as some other explosive athletes people traditionally think of (I'm thinking like a Dominic James / Kemba Walker-type first step), but his ability to get up in the air for a board is very impressive.

Maybe he's just a tall guy with long arms that has a good vertical then?

I would agree that at times clumsy ball handling or getting pushed around down low could make him seem less athletic than he really is. But like EFR mentioned, I think of guys like the 3 amigos when talking about good athletes in college basketball. When I compare Jamal to those guys, he seems more like an average athlete than an exceptional one.