Self-Driving Car Kills Pedestrian in AZ

[Benny B]

Would a human being have turned on the high beams?  I would have on a road like that.  Did the automated car?

High beams - or any focused concentration of light for that matter - can affect radar; light and sound.... they're all just waves of energy.   If it were up to the car, it wouldn't need to turn the lights on at all.


Fun fact: Headlights were originally installed on vehicles so that the other car could see you coming; the realization that they could be used to improve your own field of vision came along much later.  In a way, headlights can metaphorically sum up what MU lacked on the court this year... mostly defense and just a little vision.

[mu_hilltopper]

This article may change my mind ..

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/police-chief-said-uber-victim-came-from-the-shadows-dont-believe-it/#p3

Specifically .. the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRW0q8i3u6E

.. I suspected the Uber video was a bit dark due to low-quality dashcam.  The Youtube video shows, it's pretty well lit up, headlights or not.

[StillAWarrior]

This article may change my mind ..

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/police-chief-said-uber-victim-came-from-the-shadows-dont-believe-it/#p3

Specifically .. the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRW0q8i3u6E

.. I suspected the Uber video was a bit dark due to low-quality dashcam.  The Youtube video shows, it's pretty well lit up, headlights or not.

Yeah, I thought the original video seemed unnaturally black in the dark areas.  Not that it was doctored, or anything, just that it wasn't a really high quality video.  These new videos look more similar to what I'd expect to see driving at night.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Would a human being have turned on the high beams?  I would have on a road like that.  Did the automated car?

My first reaction when watching this video was "wow, crappy headlights." The conspiracy theorist in me wondered if the video was doctored to make the road appear darker than it was.

[WarriorDad]

My first reaction when watching this video was "wow, crappy headlights." The conspiracy theorist in me wondered if the video was doctored to make the road appear darker than it was.

Yes, either visibility was bad and a real person would turn on high beams, or the camera was poor in capturing the true lighting.  I'm not buying that she was dead no matter what argument.  This feels to me a technology failure by the car.  That doesn't mean there is no blame on this person who appears to be violating the law, crossing the street outside of a cross walk at night.  Not a smart move, but I believe the human driver sees this one.

[Eldon]

There's no doubt that "accidents will happen."  Completely unexpected and unavoidable events will occur, now and forever, where object A, travelling at 20-100 feet per second meet object B that appears suddenly.

Eldon and MU82 .. so how do (would you) respond when there's data (now or in the future) that robocars are safer per million miles than humans?

My point was that I think that we are a long ways off from even being able to get that kind of data.  AI has come a long way since Y2K fears.  Nonetheless, it still has a LONG way to go to match the human mind in as something as complex as driving a car.

I know that driving a car seems mundane.  But it only seems that way.  When driving on city roads in an urban area, humans are able to make extremely complex computations in milliseconds, or at least have the capability of doing so if needed, e.g., kid darts into street after a loose ball.

We could, of course, equip cars with infrared and whatnot, but then the car is stopping every time a squirrel is too close to the car.  Humans instinctively know when to slam on the breaks.  Good luck coding that instinct into an algorithm.

[Benny B]

Well that was fast.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uber-reaches-settlement-family-autonomous-023342063.html

[Golden Avalanche]

Well that was fast.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uber-reaches-settlement-family-autonomous-023342063.html

Do something illegal, get killed, surviving family members receive pay off from corporation. This is what makes America great.

[WarriorDad]

Well that was fast.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uber-reaches-settlement-family-autonomous-023342063.html

So much money on the line with this future industry, they must have backed up 10 Brinks trucks for this one.  Last thing they wanted was this going to court, all of the public to see and hear about the problems with the software, hardware, cameras, etc in these vehicles.

[Golden Avalanche]

So much money on the line with this future industry, they must have backed up 10 Brinks trucks for this one.  Last thing they wanted was this going to court, all of the public to see and hear about the problems with the software, hardware, cameras, etc in these vehicles.

The problem was a pedestrian, as usual, being brazen with her complete disregard for the laws of the road.

She put herself in that position and deserved what happened based on her arrogance. Nothing wrong with the vehicle.

[StillAWarrior]

The problem was a pedestrian, as usual, being brazen with her complete disregard for the laws of the road.

She put herself in that position and deserved what happened based on her arrogance. Nothing wrong with the vehicle.

I’ll go with along with careless mistake, but I’m going to stop short of “jaywalkers deserve death.”

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I’ll go with along with careless mistake, but I’m going to stop short of “jaywalkers deserve death.”

Yeah... That was an odd statement. We also don't know that there were no problems with the car. I agree that the pedestrian was at fault,  but that doesn't mean that the car was perfect

[LAZER]

I’ll go with along with careless mistake, but I’m going to stop short of “jaywalkers deserve death.”

Arrogant jaywalkers once again holding back progress and innovation.

[WarriorDad]

The problem was a pedestrian, as usual, being brazen with her complete disregard for the laws of the road.

She put herself in that position and deserved what happened based on her arrogance. Nothing wrong with the vehicle.

In an earlier message I put most of the blame on her, but a person driving that car would either have the brights on or likely seen her. These cars are not infallible. There are enough videos on YouTube for people to see when they run red lights, don't yield properly, and other mishaps.   They will help in the long run with safety and prevent some accidents that humans commit, but the same is true that they will likely commit a few accidents that a human being would overcome.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/03ATgKkV0hc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/03ATgKkV0hc</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_CdJ4oae8f4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_CdJ4oae8f4</a>

[Golden Avalanche]

In an earlier message I put most of the blame on her, but a person driving that car would either have the brights on or likely seen her. These cars are not infallible. There are enough videos on YouTube for people to see when they run red lights, don't yield properly, and other mishaps.   They will help in the long run with safety and prevent some accidents that humans commit, but the same is true that they will likely commit a few accidents that a human being would overcome.

That's assuming quite a bit. It's the old parable of "everyone on the road is a terrible driver, except me". There is no proof that a person driving that car would have "likely" seen her or that they would have their bright lights activated.

I've watched people drive on residential streets in a rain storm without their headlights on. I've seen plenty of drivers on the freeway at dusk without their headlights on (especially this time of year). I've seen people buzz pedestrians in a crosswalk in the early afternoon on a flawlessly sunny day. I've watched people apply makeup to their face whilst set on cruise control at 76 MPH.

Long and short of it, humans are the fallible ones and the sooner we get tons and tons of weaponized machinery out of their distracted hands the sooner we can stem the tide of deaths on our increasingly dangerous roads.

[WarriorDad]

That's assuming quite a bit. It's the old parable of "everyone on the road is a terrible driver, except me". There is no proof that a person driving that car would have "likely" seen her or that they would have their bright lights activated.

I've watched people drive on residential streets in a rain storm without their headlights on. I've seen plenty of drivers on the freeway at dusk without their headlights on (especially this time of year). I've seen people buzz pedestrians in a crosswalk in the early afternoon on a flawlessly sunny day. I've watched people apply makeup to their face whilst set on cruise control at 76 MPH.

Long and short of it, humans are the fallible ones and the sooner we get tons and tons of weaponized machinery out of their distracted hands the sooner we can stem the tide of deaths on our increasingly dangerous roads.

Humans are fallible, but machines built by humans can be, too.  The videos I linked, of course humans run red lights also but that didn't stop that car from doing the same thing. 

Weaponized machinery?  Are you saying people use their cars as weapons?

[MU82]

Here's a serious question that I have never seen discussed about electric, self-driving cars being the future of transportation ...

Can our grid handle all the electricity it will take to keep all of those cars on the road?

I'm not saying it can't ... I'm saying I genuinely don't know.

But if in, say, 30 years there were only electric cars, that'll be a lot of effen electricity needed.

[Hards Alumni]

Here's a serious question that I have never seen discussed about electric, self-driving cars being the future of transportation ...

Can our grid handle all the electricity it will take to keep all of those cars on the road?

I'm not saying it can't ... I'm saying I genuinely don't know.

But if in, say, 30 years there were only electric cars, that'll be a lot of effen electricity needed.

Solar panels on your roof, and a battery in your garage.  Additionally, cars will likely not be owned by individuals.  There will probably be a ride service that you pay a subscription for.  Car picks you up, takes you to work, goes and gets the next person, goes to charge if it has to.  It is truly insane that we own cars.  They're expensive and you drive it to work and it just sits there all day.

[MU82]

Solar panels on your roof, and a battery in your garage.  Additionally, cars will likely not be owned by individuals.  There will probably be a ride service that you pay a subscription for.  Car picks you up, takes you to work, goes and gets the next person, goes to charge if it has to.  It is truly insane that we own cars.  They're expensive and you drive it to work and it just sits there all day.

I would love that! I hate driving, especially in cities.

If we ever move back to Chicago - an unlikely "if," because my wife hates the weather there (and I'm no big fan of it) - we will live in the city, very close to public transportation, and we will not own a car. We'd be able to afford a lot nicer apartment without having to pay the ridiculous costs/taxes/fees associated with car ownership.

Our last 8 years, we owned only 1 car, and we often left that parked for weeks at a time. And we only lived near a bus line, not the el.

[WarriorDad]

Solar panels on your roof, and a battery in your garage.  Additionally, cars will likely not be owned by individuals.  There will probably be a ride service that you pay a subscription for.  Car picks you up, takes you to work, goes and gets the next person, goes to charge if it has to.  It is truly insane that we own cars.  They're expensive and you drive it to work and it just sits there all day.

Why is it insane when that is truly the only way to get from A to B the last 100 years? 

I like having my own vehicle that my wife uses to drive to various volunteering sessions, shopping, leisure, medical, etc.  My music, my sun glasses, my cup holders, my garage door opener all where I want them. I keep my cars clean, in great condition, I do not have to rely on anyone else or another company.  I see how rental car companies keep their cars and it isn't great.

What happens in those situations when a hurricane is coming and everyone needs to evacuate, will there be enough vehicles?  How about when the power grid goes offline for a week, any cars available to do anything? 

[🏀]

I watched the video, I would've killed the lady dead if I was driving.

[Hards Alumni]

Why is it insane when that is truly the only way to get from A to B the last 100 years? 

I like having my own vehicle that my wife uses to drive to various volunteering sessions, shopping, leisure, medical, etc.  My music, my sun glasses, my cup holders, my garage door opener all where I want them. I keep my cars clean, in great condition, I do not have to rely on anyone else or another company.  I see how rental car companies keep their cars and it isn't great.

What happens in those situations when a hurricane is coming and everyone needs to evacuate, will there be enough vehicles?  How about when the power grid goes offline for a week, any cars available to do anything?

Same old Chicos

[MU82]

What happens in those situations when a hurricane is coming and everyone needs to evacuate, will there be enough vehicles?  How about when the power grid goes offline for a week, any cars available to do anything?

I think you forgot to turn right at the Doom thread.

[Benny B]

So much money on the line with this future industry, they must have backed up 10 Brinks trucks for this one.  Last thing they wanted was this going to court, all of the public to see and hear about the problems with the software, hardware, cameras, etc in these vehicles.

Or.....

The family was (most likely rightfully) advised that the pedestrian was completely in the wrong and got what little they could by settling for a mere $25,000 to cover funeral expenses and attorneys fees.  Family got more than they deserved, and Uber got this to go away quickly and quietly. 

I call that a win-win for the surviving parties.  And if Uber can improve their algorithm and save future lives as a result of this tragedy, society wins too.

The autonomous cars are coming, and hoping for perfection is a fools errand... people will die, inevitably.  The real barometer is how many more people will live as a result of these tragedies?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Why is it insane when that is truly the only way to get from A to B the last 100 years? 

I like having my own vehicle that my wife uses to drive to various volunteering sessions, shopping, leisure, medical, etc.  My music, my sun glasses, my cup holders, my garage door opener all where I want them. I keep my cars clean, in great condition, I do not have to rely on anyone else or another company.  I see how rental car companies keep their cars and it isn't great.

What happens in those situations when a hurricane is coming and everyone needs to evacuate, will there be enough vehicles?  How about when the power grid goes offline for a week, any cars available to do anything?

Did ya take da pick up wich you to Idaho, a'ina?