Al and MU in the 70s vs. Wright and Nova in the 2010s

[79Warrior]

We were definitely #2 for the decade in terms of winning percentage and AP polls.  Should have won two titles in my opinion, outside shot at three.  Chones leaving was an absolute killer. 

Are you sure about unlimited scholarships back then? In 1973 the NCAA limited football scholarships, which were further limited in later years.  Basketball was eventually limited to 13, but I cannot recall when the original limit of 15 was put in.

Where are you getting #2 for the decade? We were a perennial Top 10- 15 program but I think you are overstating the point. How many weeks was MU ranked #1 or 2 over that time period? You might be surprised by the result.

[Galway Eagle]

Where are you getting #2 for the decade? We were a perennial Top 10- 15 program but I think you are overstating the point. How many weeks was MU ranked #1 or 2 over that time period? You might be surprised by the result.

We had the second best winning percentage in the decade. There's a report that puts us at number 3 behind UNC as well due to strength of schedule but usually we're reffered to as the second best program of the decade.

[Galway Eagle]

Yes, no internet back then, just paper.  Bob Gibbons used to put out the best recruiting reports, you subscribed and it was mailed to you.  Was called the All Star Report if I recall.  Aguirre was probably a done deal, as were the McCray brothers.  Aguirre from Chicago up the road, McCray brothers from Mt. Vernon, NY high school, same as Earl Tatum.  Rodney was number 3 pick overall in draft and Scooter wasn't bad either.  Wish I had a publication reference, but take my word and others who know.

Interesting. Just strange he's never mentioned it. Like theres usually some random interview that'd be online where he'd mention how he ended up at Depaul.

[Goose]

79Warriors

We were a Top 10-15 program in the 70's? I hope you just posted that to stir up the old guys out here. Otherwise, what the hell are you thinking?

[mujivitz06]

If you scroll down here, this old SI article suggest Agguire was headed to MU.

https://www.si.com/vault/1980/01/21/824311/depaul-is-deone-as-in-no-1-the-team-is-unbeaten-thanks-to-its-wily-coach-his-son-the-recruiter-and-homegrown-chicago-talent-like-mark-aguirre-shooting-against-marquette

[Nukem2]

If you scroll down here, this old SI article suggest Agguire was headed to MU.

https://www.si.com/vault/1980/01/21/824311/depaul-is-deone-as-in-no-1-the-team-is-unbeaten-thanks-to-its-wily-coach-his-son-the-recruiter-and-homegrown-chicago-talent-like-mark-aguirre-shooting-against-marquette

That was well known at the time. Cummings would have been here as well.  Alas, Al returned early.....

[Galway Eagle]

If you scroll down here, this old SI article suggest Agguire was headed to MU.

https://www.si.com/vault/1980/01/21/824311/depaul-is-deone-as-in-no-1-the-team-is-unbeaten-thanks-to-its-wily-coach-his-son-the-recruiter-and-homegrown-chicago-talent-like-mark-aguirre-shooting-against-marquette

There it is. Not that I didn't believe the old timers but after 40 years things get twisted and such so I didn't know if he was ours to lose or was just seriously considering us

[willie warrior]

Al McGuire was the best thing that ever happened to MU basketball, bar none. Always will be. Second best is certainly up for grabs

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I've heard Isiah Thomas would've played for Al, too.

[GooooMarquette]

I've heard Isiah Thomas would've played for Al, too.

Yep, I remembered hearing all about guys like Aguirre, Cummings, the McCrays and Thomas. I know Hank was really close to landing Rod Foster too, but he ended up at UCLA.

DePaul went to the '79 Final Four with Aguirre and Cummings, and UL beat UCLA in the 1980 National Championship game that included the McCrays and Foster.

[Goose]

Piper

I will rest better knowing that you received confirmation on the program's history.

Lazar

I can speak with a very high level of confidence that the Mc Cray's were MU bound. Once Al left, Hank had little chance. I will even go as far as saying that I believe us losing Aguirre was all on Al and not just because he left. He was the one that made Ray Meyer's career.

[naginiF]

I wasn't around in the 1970s. Was Marquette's program as good during that run as Villanova is having now? Was it tougher to achieve that kind of success in the 70s as it is today?

As others have pointed out it's a bit of an apples vs. oranges comparison.  without putting too much thought into it I think comparing anyone pre 1985 and post 1985 is difficult. 

However, if forced to compare I don't think there is any rational argument that would say it was tougher to achieve that kind of success in the 70's - there is WAY more parity and competition today.  not taking anything away from Al but Jay is at least on par with Al when you look at his last 5 years against any of Al's 5 year stretches.  What Al had in addition to his coaching success was that he was basically the physical embodiment of the institution so his success on the court, and as an announcer, is magnified for us. 

I've heard Isiah Thomas would've played for Al, too.

I've heard Trevor Mbakwe would've insisted on being born earlier to play for Al

[4everwarriors]

In 74, we would  have had Lucas, Chones, and McNeil.

Wrong, #22 was class of '73, hey?

[nyg]

Wrong, #22 was class of '73, hey?

Yes, I already mentioned that to him in this thread. 

[MU82]

Effen Al!

We lionize him, memorialize him, name stuff after him, retire his "number," etc, etc, etc ... and the man cost us a bunch of national titles!!!

The jerk!!!!

[WarriorDad]

Where are you getting #2 for the decade? We were a perennial Top 10- 15 program but I think you are overstating the point. How many weeks was MU ranked #1 or 2 over that time period? You might be surprised by the result.

Two sources.

1) NCAA record book, page 82.   Marquette had the second highest winning percentage of the decade behind only UCLA.  http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2018/D1.pdf


2)  AP Polls.  From 1970 to 1979, Marquette appeared in the AP poll the second most times with 99.4% appearances in the polls in that decade and an average ranking of 6.6 (also second best).  UCLA had 100% appearances with an average ranking of 2.9.

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/app_total.cfm?sort=totapp&from=1970&to=1979#.WrCUGejwaM8

[79Warrior]

79Warriors

We were a Top 10-15 program in the 70's? I hope you just posted that to stir up the old guys out here. Otherwise, what the hell are you thinking?

Having some fun!!

[Goose]

79Warrior

You had me worried.

[Galway Eagle]

Here's the list saying number 3 in the 70s

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf

[MU82]

As others have pointed out it's a bit of an apples vs. oranges comparison.  without putting too much thought into it I think comparing anyone pre 1985 and post 1985 is difficult. 

However, if forced to compare I don't think there is any rational argument that would say it was tougher to achieve that kind of success in the 70's - there is WAY more parity and competition today.  not taking anything away from Al but Jay is at least on par with Al when you look at his last 5 years against any of Al's 5 year stretches.  What Al had in addition to his coaching success was that he was basically the physical embodiment of the institution so his success on the court, and as an announcer, is magnified for us. 

Agree with all of this ... and I was old enough to have watched and remembered those '70s Warriors.

It's hard to believe, but even only 40-45 years ago, there were many programs that were reluctant to have "too many" black players. Al, as we all know, didn't give a chit. He loved going  into the cities and meeting them on their turf, loved convincing their mothers he would take care of them better than any of the other whiteys out there. He had the whole "I'm a city kid, too" schtick working - because it was true.

The few coaches like Al who could work the inner cities back then had a tremendous advantage. There is no such advantage possible today - not for Jay Wright or anybody else.

Not to take anything away from Al. He had to establish his cred and build on it, but it's a fact that it's one of the major differences between the hoops landscape then and now.

[Goose]

MU82


It is apples and oranges to some degree. That said, being the second best program in the country for a decade was not an easy task. Many other blueblood programs that had major advantages over MU did not match Al's teams  success. Challenges in today's game are different, but putting together a program like Al did was not easy. I guess to me, being the second best program for decade is impressive then and now. It looks different today, but make no mistake, what Al did was off the charts.

[oldwarrior81]

Here's the list saying number 3 in the 70s

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf

I've seen Sagarin's list and I guess it must be based on a tougher schedule.

Through the decade, MU won 17 NCAA games plus the NIT title in 1970.
MU finished ranked in the top ten 9 of 10 seasons.  #11 in 1975 was the only finish outside the top ten.

UNC won 9 NCAA games plus a NIT title in 1971.
The TarHeels finished ranked top 10 in 5 seasons.  9 top 20 rankings plus being unranked in 1970.

[Galway Eagle]

I've seen Sagarin's list and I guess it must be based on a tougher schedule.

Through the decade, MU won 17 NCAA games plus the NIT title in 1970.
MU finished ranked in the top ten 9 of 10 seasons.  #11 in 1975 was the only finish outside the top ten.

UNC won 9 NCAA games plus a NIT title in 1971.
The TarHeels finished ranked top 10 in 5 seasons.  9 top 20 rankings plus being unranked in 1970.

Then the strength of schedule must be it

[MU82]

MU82


It is apples and oranges to some degree. That said, being the second best program in the country for a decade was not an easy task. Many other blueblood programs that had major advantages over MU did not match Al's teams  success. Challenges in today's game are different, but putting together a program like Al did was not easy. I guess to me, being the second best program for decade is impressive then and now. It looks different today, but make no mistake, what Al did was off the charts.

Agree with all of that, Goose, especially the bolded part. I absolutely do not want to take anything away from what Al accomplished.

Although I don't wish I was older - 106 is plenty old enough!! - it sure would have been cool to have started college 2 years earlier than I did and to have been a student when we won it all!

[GGGG]

I've seen Sagarin's list and I guess it must be based on a tougher schedule.

Through the decade, MU won 17 NCAA games plus the NIT title in 1970.
MU finished ranked in the top ten 9 of 10 seasons.  #11 in 1975 was the only finish outside the top ten.

UNC won 9 NCAA games plus a NIT title in 1971.
The TarHeels finished ranked top 10 in 5 seasons.  9 top 20 rankings plus being unranked in 1970.

I'm pretty sure those are weighted by schedule.  There are three ACC teams in the top 10 which helped them.