20-7

[Goose]

News dreams

I have said Wojo does not develop talent in this thread or other threads? With all due respect, I think you know zero about basketball. Keep crossing your fingers, hoping and saying next year is the year.

[MU82]

By just about any measure, Trae Young is a "stud." He led the freakin' nation in scoring and assists and will be a 1-and-done lottery pick.

Lon Kruger has won at every college stop, with multiple conference championships, two Final Fours. Damn good coach.

And yet Oklahoma had an epic collapse this season and was 1-and-done in the tournament.

Winning is difficult. We're close.

[Galway Eagle]

By just about any measure, Trae Young is a "stud." He led the freakin' nation in scoring and assists and will be a 1-and-done lottery pick.

Lon Kruger has won at every college stop, with multiple conference championships, two Final Fours. Damn good coach.

And yet Oklahoma had an epic collapse this season and was 1-and-done in the tournament.

Winning is difficult. We're close.

I think Kruger is great but if we had a coach for 22years and he got us 2 sweet 16s, 1 E8, and 2 FF people would still complain that we aren't consistently making the second weekend and how he just got lucky a couple times

[tower912]

I think Kruger is great but if we had a coach for 22years and he got us 2 sweet 16s, 1 E8, and 2 FF people would still complain that we aren't consistently making the second weekend and how he just got lucky a couple times

Also known as a slightly better record than Crean.    And Pitt and UGA are fighting over him. 

[MU82]

Kruger has been something of a turnaround specialist.

K-State was 12-16, 14-15, 14-14 and 16-14 their last 4 years under Jack Hartman. Kruger took over and got them into 4 straight NCAAs before leaving for Florida.

Florida was a real dumpster fire before he got there, going 7-21 the previous season.  It took Kruger 4 years to get them into the NCAAs, and they got to the Final Four that season. After another NCAA bid season and then a bad one, he left for Illinois, which had gone 5 straight years without winning 20 under Lou Henson (there also were NCAA rules problems there).

Kruger immediately got Illinois into the NCAAs, and went to the tourney 3 times in 4 years, also winning a conference title.

Kruger surprisingly was courted by the NBA, where he flamed out spectacularly with the Hawks.

Returned to college at UNLV, where Rebels had gone 4 straight years with no NCAAs. It took Kruger 3 years to get them back into the tourney; they went 4 of his last 5 years there.

Finally, he went to Oklahoma, where the program had bottomed out under Jeff Capel. After a losing first season, he has taken the Sooners to the tourney 5 of 6 years, and reached the 2015 Final Four.

He doesn't get "extra points" for all that moving around, but he has succeeded everywhere. Some places took longer for him to turn around than others. He has recruited well everywhere.

But as BB said, maybe Scoopers wouldn't be happy with "only" 2 FF in that time. Some of us would have been all over Al at times, too - especially late in the 1976-77 season.

[Newsdreams]

News dreams

I have said Wojo does not develop talent in this thread or other threads? With all due respect, I think you know zero about basketball. Keep crossing your fingers, hoping and saying next year is the year.

Coming from you, thanks. I can't dunk I'll give you that.

[Newsdreams]

News dreams

I have said Wojo does not develop talent in this thread or other threads? With all due respect, I think you know zero about basketball. Keep crossing your fingers, hoping and saying next year is the year.

You said you can't see the talent and that basically Markus and Sam are at their ceiling. Both are inaccurate that is what I was getting at. And next year needs to be marked improvement from the team else Wojo will not have delivered on his plan.

[Marcus92]

I graduated from Marquette during the Kevin O'Neill era.

He was obviously a very different coach than Wojo. O'Neill, for example, would absolutely lose his mind to see defense like what we've witnessed the past two seasons. Yet the approach to team-building seems similar: establish a strong core of young talent and develop them for several years.

Results sure weren't easy to see at the beginning. In O'Neill's second second, his nationally ranked recruiting class of Jim McIlvaine, Damon Key and Robb Logterman struggled through an 11-18 season. A year later, the addition of Tony Miller and William Gates added leadership and depth in the backcourt. But they still finished just 16-13 with no postseason.

Big deal, right? Roney Eford was the only impact addition the following year. No reason to expect much improvement. But the team finished 20-8 and earned Marquette's first NCAA tournament bid in a decade. A year later, the same team beat Kentucky to advance to the Sweet 16.

Damon Key finished his MU career with more than 1,600 career points. McIlvaine smashed every record for blocked shots, earned national defensive player of the year honors and went on to play 7 years in the NBA. Tony Miller set a new standard for assists, before playing overseas for more than a dozen years. Logterman established a new mark for 3-pointers made. Eford totaled nearly 1,500 points by the time he graduated.

Clearly, some high-level talent. Nowhere near enough to compete for a national title, but easily a Top 25 program. Unfortunately, O'Neil left for Tennessee after just 5 seasons. And his successor Mike Deane wasn't able to attract the same level of talent.

I don't know how much more Sam, Markus or anyone else currently on the roster can develop. But they're already rewriting the school record books. You could even make an argument that Sam/Markus/Sacar/Greg/Jamal/Theo are further along than Mac/Damon/Robb/Tony/Gates were in 1991-92. (In a far tougher conference than the Great Midwest, no less.) If this team is on a similar trajectory, that would certainly be a step in the right direction.

Making the NIT is a means to an end. Not an end in itself. But as long as we're still playing in March, might as well enjoy the games we have to watch.

[Goose]

Newsdreams

Stat wise they have played at level no one aside from Wade has played at their first two years. How to do you figure there is much upside? If they play at the same level it would be historic careers. Like my posts or not, but I try and think things out and use logic vs. tooth fairy dreaming.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Newsdreams

Stat wise they have played at level no one aside from Wade has played at their first two years. How to do you figure there is much upside? If they play at the same level it would be historic careers. Like my posts or not, but I try and think things out and use logic vs. tooth fairy dreaming.

I guess I could see it a bit with Markus.  I happen to not think we've seen his ceiling, but that is at least an argument I could see.  He's a fantastic shooter, but didn't shoot it all that great this season from 3P, but his floater is lethal and I think we'll see him improve at finishing in traffic.  Defensively I don't think he'll ever be great, but he has the ability to be decent when his backcourt mate has more size.

But Sam? For starters, the guy has been hurt for at least a month.  I think we'll see him be much quicker and with a fresh step next season. He's never been overly aggressive offensively, which I think is something we'll see more of.  Next season I suspect we'll see him playing more on the wing and less in the post, which will give him nice mismatches on the offensively end, especially when he backs his player down into the paint.  We know the kid can really shoot it.  I think Sam could be All American good next couple seasons.  At the very least, we already have a 2nd team type performer. He is a really, really good ball player.

[Marcus92]

It's possible that Markus becomes more valuable to the team by scoring less. If he can become more of a distributor and improve on defense.

[Newsdreams]

I guess I could see it a bit with Markus.  I happen to not think we've seen his ceiling, but that is at least an argument I could see.  He's a fantastic shooter, but didn't shoot it all that great this season from 3P, but his floater is lethal and I think we'll see him improve at finishing in traffic.  Defensively I don't think he'll ever be great, but he has the ability to be decent when his backcourt mate has more size.

But Sam? For starters, the guy has been hurt for at least a month.  I think we'll see him be much quicker and with a fresh step next season. He's never been overly aggressive offensively, which I think is something we'll see more of.  Next season I suspect we'll see him playing more on the wing and less in the post, which will give him nice mismatches on the offensively end, especially when he backs his player down into the paint.  We know the kid can really shoot it.  I think Sam could be All American good next couple seasons.  At the very least, we already have a 2nd team type performer. He is a really, really good ball player.

Correct and Sam will be posting 3's and will kill them. Playing the 3 will take a lot of pressure away from him. And correct on Markus some people think improvement is only scoring........

[Newsdreams]

Newsdreams

Stat wise they have played at level no one aside from Wade has played at their first two years. How to do you figure there is much upside? If they play at the same level it would be historic careers. Like my posts or not, but I try and think things out and use logic vs. tooth fairy dreaming.

Logic? And thanks!

[Goose]

J5

Again, I am a big Sam guy. Please factor in how he benefited from two guys that could make shots from the parking lot. He is not going to have anywhere near the luxury next season. He has flat out outperformed expectations for this fan for two years. As a matter of fact, he might have outperformed at a level I have not seen in years. Tough to build off that, especially when limited athletically.

[NickelDimer]

Count me in on the "high on Theo's potential" club. He's got the goods. Hope we get four years from him

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

J5

Again, I am a big Sam guy. Please factor in how he benefited from two guys that could make shots from the parking lot. He is not going to have anywhere near the luxury next season. He has flat out outperformed expectations for this fan for two years. As a matter of fact, he might have outperformed at a level I have not seen in years. Tough to build off that, especially when limited athletically.

See, I see it as the opposite. I think Howard and Rowsey benefit more with Sam on the floor. We kind of saw that last night at the end of the Harvard game.

My prediction next season is Sam is on the All Big East second team.

[Floorslapper]

J5

Again, I am a big Sam guy. Please factor in how he benefited from two guys that could make shots from the parking lot. He is not going to have anywhere near the luxury next season. He has flat out outperformed expectations for this fan for two years. As a matter of fact, he might have outperformed at a level I have not seen in years. Tough to build off that, especially when limited athletically.

There is merit to this point.  My only concern on Sam is the athletic part.  He will be an absolute focal point of defenses next year, and it is true that he benefitted from playing alongside both Markus and Rowsey.  The floor spacing was great, AND it made it difficult for opposition to double down on Sam when he posted up.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Your wrong dim knit.  Did you watch this team at all when Rowsey wasn't on the floor this year?  Leads the SOTG tally with 8.  Put up the best value add season at MU this century, 2nd only to D-Wade.

Yes, a physical, strong, solid PG that can score some and defend at a high level (like a Traci Carter), will help next year - but - to dismiss the loss of Rowsey is silly.

We all know you hated Luke.  You love Heldt.  Hate Rowsey.  Largely hate on Markus.  What other MU players do you actually like?

Your problem n many others is u only focus on offense  Yes he got 8 sotg but because u n others tend to vote for the high scorer.  BE coaches left him off the BE teams despite being 5th? In the conference in scoring.  Dont hate on Markus as a 2, just calling out the obvious that he isnt a PG.  I like Andrew, he seems like a great kid.  I think he is the 8th best PG in the BE tho, id take him over Mintz n the Georgetown kid.  Its not all about scoring, put down the xbox contoller. 

[Goose]

News dreams

Instead of trying to one up me, which will not happen, try and think things out. How is Sam going to move upward in a significant way? Shoot higher % of threes? Become a PG? Increase rebounding with sacrificing scoring?

Thank God for Sam exceeding expectations and put legit expectations for him moving forward. Unless they add 15 minutes to the game, his stats might be a career highs.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Also known as a slightly better record than Crean.    And Pitt and UGA are fighting over him.

Slighty better than Crean?? Lol in what metric?? Additionally kruger has multiple rebuilds scewing his record.  Crean cannot hold krugers jock

[tower912]

Goose, I realize that statistically it will be difficult for Sam to improve.   How will he improve from having other skilled, mobile forwards on the floor?  What if his presence prevents the double team of Theo or Morrow in the post?  How much better will his defense be when he isn't spending 37 minutes wrestling  with a Big East PF?  What will his offense look like if Marquette gets a graduate transfer PG who can penetrate and pass?   Will he be better if he doesn't have to carry the front court scoring load?

[Goose]

Tower

Back to stud point, do you build a team around Sam or have Sam be part of the pieces around a stud?

[brewcity77]

News dreams

Instead of trying to one up me, which will not happen, try and think things out. How is Sam going to move upward in a significant way? Shoot higher % of threes? Become a PG? Increase rebounding with sacrificing scoring?

Thank God for Sam exceeding expectations and put legit expectations for him moving forward. Unless they add 15 minutes to the game, his stats might be a career highs.

Increase his usage. I don't expect him to reach Rowsey levels of usage, but if Sam can maintain a 60+ eFG% while getting from 10 shots per game up to 14-15, his PPG could easily get close to 20.

The shots will be there with Rowsey gone. Sam did increase his usage and minutes this year while also improving his ORtg and eFG%.

And while it's easy to say he will be more the focal point of defenses without Rowsey, I'd argue that offensive options is the last thing Marquette should be worried about based on Wojo's history. The defense has always stepped back, but Carlino, Reinhardt, JJ, and Rowsey all stepped up to career best seasons as upperclassmen here. Getting offensive production out of his players is something Wojo has excelled at.

[Goose]

Brew

60% FG at 14-15 shots a game. Forget retiring his number, put him college HOF tonight. I obviously have bumped my fxxkin head too many times. I never thought just increasing a guys shots per game and expecting 60% success. Actually, what if he shots it  a hundred Fxxkin times a game? Even better, right?

[Marcus92]

Think you missed the "e" in Brew's "60+ eFG%." As in "effective field goal percentage," not pure field goal percentage.

Sam has actually improved his eFG% this season to 64.3% (compared to 62.7% a year ago) while increasing his usage by 33%. The kid hardly ever takes a bad shot, has great mechanics, and doesn't turn the ball over. Yes, his efficiency is incredible already. But it's possible he could get even better.