Expectations

[jesmu84]

I have, Jamal Cain. I don't know what his hang up with free throws is but he was the second most accurate three point shooter we had this season. He also was a 3 point specialist in high school. If his shooting had hurt us, I would agree with you. If it starts to hurt us, I'll agree with you. It hasn't yet.

Same argument as home wins, 3 straight big east wins, following a shot, etc etc

Old school is the only school that matters to these guys.

Probably hate that Kevin Durant shoots so much from the outside since he looks like a slasher

Oh. And they're better fans because they've been alive longer than us.

[4everwarriors]

Musta bin a bad dey in da bagina biz, hey?

[GooooMarquette]

TAMU

I’ll ask the question again, have you ever seen a real three point shooter not be able to hit a free throw? He is not a shooter, period.

Career numbers from some pretty solid players:

Antoine Wright - TAMU - 37.6 3pt%; 64.8 FT%
Obi Muonelo - OkSt - 38.6 3pt%; 65.4 FT%
Malik Hairston - Ore - 39.5 3pt%; 64.3 FT%
DeMarcus Nelson - Duke - 37.3 3pt%; 58.6 FT%
Lee Humphrey - Florida - 44.4 3pt%; 63 FT%

These are all 3 and 4 year guys who averaged over 20 mpg.

So yeah.....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Career numbers from some pretty solid players:

Antoine Wright - TAMU - 37.6 3pt%; 64.8 FT%
Obi Muonelo - OkSt - 38.6 3pt%; 65.4 FT%
Malik Hairston - Ore - 39.5 3pt%; 64.3 FT%
DeMarcus Nelson - Duke - 37.3 3pt%; 58.6 FT%
Lee Humphrey - Florida - 44.4 3pt%; 63 FT%

These are all 3 and 4 year guys who averaged over 20 mpg.

So yeah.....

To be fair, none of them have the disparity Jamal does but yeah, good three point shooters sometimes aren't good free throw shooters. I'm not sure what Jamal's hang up is at the charity stripe.

[skianth16]

Freshman.  I want him to keep shooting  3's, not driving to the basket and getting fouled.

Why would you not want him taking a higher percentage shot? His FT jitters will pass. He won't be a career 50% guy. A decent FT shooter at 70% gets more points at the line than a decent 3 point shooter hitting 40% from 3 if we play the probabilities. Shooting more and driving less doesn't seem like sound coaching advice.

I think Jamal's 3P% is probably a tad inflated this year from getting some wide, wide open looks, and I assume his FT% is going to be an outlier in his college career. I doubt you'll ever find a player whose 3P% is even within 10 percentage points of his FT% over his career for any guy shooting more than 30 3's per year and at least as many FT's. If anyone can find that guy, I'll happily buy him a beer.

[GooooMarquette]

To be fair, none of them have the disparity Jamal does but yeah, good three point shooters sometimes aren't good free throw shooters. I'm not sure what Jamal's hang up is at the charity stripe.

Might be that he only took 21 FTs all season, but we'll see....

[Floorslapper]

I guess we’re just going to pretend yesterday didn’t happen....

LOL.  Silly AF.  We ran a full court zone trap last night...which was DUMB.  We played the zone with both midgets in the game.  WE didn't play it exclusively.  Nova is Number 1 Offensive Efficiency team in the country...and they were en fuego.  M2M was shredded just as badly.

Based on all of the above, by no means would I pass judgement on zone NOT being a better option for a team that is undersized, outathleticed, and outstrengthed.

Wojo got the blueprint at Creighton, and he was too stubborn and wouldn't roll with the zone exclusively - UNLIKE HIS MENTOR COACH K WHO MADE EXCLUSIVE CHANGE TO ZONE 8 GAMES AGO AND HAVEN'T LOST SINCE.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

LOL.  Silly AF.  We ran a full court zone trap last night...which was DUMB.  We played the zone with both midgets in the game.  WE didn't play it exclusively.  Nova is Number 1 Offensive Efficiency team in the country...and they were en fuego.  M2M was shredded just as badly.

Based on all of the above, by no means would I pass judgement on zone NOT being a better option for a team that is undersized, outathleticed, and outstrengthed.

Wojo got the blueprint at Creighton, and he was too stubborn and wouldn't roll with the zone exclusively - UNLIKE HIS MENTOR COACH K WHO MADE EXCLUSIVE CHANGE TO ZONE 8 GAMES AGO AND HAVEN'T LOST SINCE.

The zone without the trap was also shredded. But yes, nothing was going to go right last night. There is no magic defense.

And again, stats show that Duke has been better at zone all season. And the zone has been better during this 8 game run then the M2M. Coach K tried something, it worked and has continued to work, so he stuck with it. The stats don't support that for MU.

[jesmu84]

LOL.  Silly AF.  We ran a full court zone trap last night...which was DUMB.  We played the zone with both midgets in the game.  WE didn't play it exclusively.  Nova is Number 1 Offensive Efficiency team in the country...and they were en fuego.  M2M was shredded just as badly.

Based on all of the above, by no means would I pass judgement on zone NOT being a better option for a team that is undersized, outathleticed, and outstrengthed.

Wojo got the blueprint at Creighton, and he was too stubborn and wouldn't roll with the zone exclusively - UNLIKE HIS MENTOR COACH K WHO MADE EXCLUSIVE CHANGE TO ZONE 8 GAMES AGO AND HAVEN'T LOST SINCE.

Whether it be a team strategy/scheme (for example, zone D), or a player's ability (playing Cain more per game) or a coach's ability (Wojo leading MU)...

What is your opinion on how long something should be consistently tried before making a decision on its success/failure?

[Floorslapper]

The zone without the trap was also shredded. But yes, nothing was going to go right last night. There is no magic defense.

And again, stats show that Duke has been better at zone all season. And the zone has been better during this 8 game run then the M2M. Coach K tried something, it worked and has continued to work, so he stuck with it. The stats don't support that for MU.

You don't get relevant stats when you simply throw a zone in for a few possessions a game.  I'm sorry.  The one half we went exclusively zone at CU we were .94ppp. 

Your stats are great TAMU, but they are only so relevant.  As we saw yesterday with Synergy D-Ratings saying Markus Howard and Harry Froling are the 3rd and 4th best defenders on the team.  That's pure nonsense.

Honest question:  If you were coach, why would you try to match up M2M when EVERY ONE of your players (sans Theo and Sacar) is at a size, athletic and strength disadvantage?  Furthermore, WHY would you force your team to defend 94 feet when it struggles to defend in the half court?

[Floorslapper]

Whether it be a team strategy/scheme (for example, zone D), or a player's ability (playing Cain more per game) or a coach's ability (Wojo leading MU)...

What is your opinion on how long something should be consistently tried before making a decision on its success/failure?

I think the KenPom stats you linked about our D-Rating each year under Wojo illustrate he hasn't been making the right call defensively.

Best coaches have to look at their roster and figure out what gives them the best chance to win.  Buzz was brilliant in this regard.  The midget team shortened the game by limiting possessions.  Beneficial as that team was outsized and wasn't deep, and therefore you try to conserve energy as best you can - takes a lot more energy to play D than it does O, and much more energy to play M2M than zone.

To answer your questions:

I'd give a coach 5 years max, yet I think you can tell pretty early if a guy has "it" or not.

I'd give a defensive philosophy 5 games (roughly 16% of a college season), if it isn't showing well (as in 175th in the country, you have to go to an alternative.)

As for PT, it is eye test related, but you NEVER are going to get a good indicator of what a player can be if you yank him in and out ever mistake, or every 3 minutes.  This is an area I feel Wojo has improved - he's far less manic and "angry" in his substitutions.  Keep going to that hot yoga Woj!

[MarquetteDano]

The zone without the trap was also shredded. But yes, nothing was going to go right last night. There is no magic defense.

And again, stats show that Duke has been better at zone all season. And the zone has been better during this 8 game run then the M2M. Coach K tried something, it worked and has continued to work, so he stuck with it. The stats don't support that for MU.

I personally believe another coach could have this team playing better defense.  Per Pomeroy here are teams that play better defense than Marquette:

- UC Riverside
- UWM
- Tennessee Tech
- Cal State Bakersfield
- Florida International


I am sorry but we have much better athletes and, in some cases, just as much length as some of these teams.

There is a defensive scheme issue.  Either the players we have recruited do not match the scheme or the players can't perform the scheme so it needs to change.

[GGGG]

LOL.  Silly AF.  We ran a full court zone trap last night...which was DUMB.  We played the zone with both midgets in the game.  WE didn't play it exclusively.  Nova is Number 1 Offensive Efficiency team in the country...and they were en fuego.  M2M was shredded just as badly.

Based on all of the above, by no means would I pass judgement on zone NOT being a better option for a team that is undersized, outathleticed, and outstrengthed.

Wojo got the blueprint at Creighton, and he was too stubborn and wouldn't roll with the zone exclusively - UNLIKE HIS MENTOR COACH K WHO MADE EXCLUSIVE CHANGE TO ZONE 8 GAMES AGO AND HAVEN'T LOST SINCE.

Yeah I’m sure that has nothing to do with the talent that Duke has.

Seriously Wojo knows a lot more about basketball than any one of us. Your constant criticisms over strategy make you sound ridiculous.

[GGGG]

You don't get relevant stats when you simply throw a zone in for a few possessions a game.  I'm sorry.  The one half we went exclusively zone at CU we were .94ppp. 

This is the same stuff you pulled when Wojo didn’t play some player you liked. But when he did, and they looked poor, your next excuse was “they didn’t get enough run.”

Your goalpost shifting is pathetic. When the numbers prove you wrong, you blame the stats themselves. Somethings never change.

[Floorslapper]

Yeah I’m sure that has nothing to do with the talent that Duke has.

Seriously Wojo knows a lot more about basketball than any one of us. Your constant criticisms over strategy make you sound ridiculous.

Yea - Duke a team far more athletic than our team couldn't get the job done in M2M, so K went zone, and stuck with it.  Exclusively.  Meanwhile our physically disadvantaged team was forced to play M2M for ~95% of our D possession this year.

As for Wojo:  His decision-making has resulted in the team regressing EVERY year defensively.  4 years running now.  At what point, despite him knowing a lot more about basketball than any one of us, does he not course correct?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You don't get relevant stats when you simply throw a zone in for a few possessions a game.  I'm sorry.  The one half we went exclusively zone at CU we were .94ppp. 

John Dawson at Georgetown.

Your stats are great TAMU, but they are only so relevant.  As we saw yesterday with Synergy D-Ratings saying Markus Howard and Harry Froling are the 3rd and 4th best defenders on the team.  That's pure nonsense.

Again, it wasn't d-rating, it was ppp allowed.

Also again, it didn't say Howard and Froling are the 3rd and 4th best defenders on the time. It said they are 3rd and 4th in ppp allowed, which is a fact.

Denying the stats when they don't suit you is not a good look.

Honest question:  If you were coach, why would you try to match up M2M when EVERY ONE of your players (sans Theo and Sacar) is at a size, athletic and strength disadvantage?  Furthermore, WHY would you force your team to defend 94 feet when it struggles to defend in the half court?

I would go with what my personnel are best at. MU's is M2M. I would also adjust based on the matchup which is what Wojo did against Creighton.

I would also throw out the occasional press. It can be a good way to catch opponents off guard and with long guards like Elliott and Cain it can be very effective. It has been effective multiple times this year though that zone trap was a look I don't remember from this season.

[WarriorDad]

Maybe it's because I came of age in the Crean/Buzz era where it felt like we were the team that always punched above its weight.

But did we always do that, or are you remembering the times that we did and forgetting the times we didn't? 

[1SE]

But did we always do that, or are you remembering the times that we did and forgetting the times we didn't?

Yeah, my fuzzy memory seems to recall lots of first round exits too, but even those years, and even when we were upset in the NCAA, it seems like the pre-season expectation had been NIT or worse.

In any event, Wojo is 0/4 in punching above the team's weight. Again, if next year is the start of a string of heavy-weight teams, that's fine.

[muguru]

I simply can't understand why Wojo doesn't hire a defensive guru to help him?? That's EXACTLY what John Beilien did this year, and it was someone he had ZERO ties to previously...well, lo and behold Michigan became a top 50 kenpom defensive team, just like that, when they had never been close to that high under Belien before.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I simply can't understand why Wojo doesn't hire a defensive guru to help him??

Cuz Ners wants too much money.

[DCHoopster]

I simply can't understand why Wojo doesn't hire a defensive guru to help him?? That's EXACTLY what John Beilien did this year, and it was someone he had ZERO ties to previously...well, lo and behold Michigan became a top 50 kenpom defensive team, just like that, when they had never been close to that high under Belien before.

You can hire anybody you want but you can see that 2 slow under the rim bigs, Heldt and Hauser, add two midget guards you are not really that strong or interested
in playing D, then 2 skinny freshman off the bench, adds up to a roster that is not capable of playing D.  Have to change the type of recruit he is recruiting.  Every team
MU plays, MU never has size advantage as well.

[Floorslapper]

John Dawson at Georgetown.

Again, it wasn't d-rating, it was ppp allowed.

Also again, it didn't say Howard and Froling are the 3rd and 4th best defenders on the time. It said they are 3rd and 4th in ppp allowed, which is a fact.

Denying the stats when they don't suit you is not a good look.

I would go with what my personnel are best at. MU's is M2M. I would also adjust based on the matchup which is what Wojo did against Creighton.

I would also throw out the occasional press. It can be a good way to catch opponents off guard and with long guards like Elliott and Cain it can be very effective. It has been effective multiple times this year though that zone trap was a look I don't remember from this season.

Championing stats when they spit out data such as Markus and Froling being the 3rd and 4th best defenders on ppp is not a good look.

Suggesting M2M was the best defense for this MU team that ranked 173 in D is absurd.  Just as it is to suggest Wojo adjusted based on the matchup at Creighton - he was forced into it by early foul trouble, and losing Howard.  If it was matchup based, why didn't Wojo go back to the zone exclusively against CU the second time they played?

Trying to support Wojo's defensive decision-making is where you lose people.  It's fine that you are a huge Wojo fan and supporter, but to suggest M2M was the best defense for this team is hogwash.

[🏀]

I expect to win more games at home while wearing gold uniforms during national broadcasts.

[ceh]

This is one of the best threads I have read on Scoop in quite some time. Thanks all for the quality posts.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In any event, Wojo is 0/4 in punching above the team's weight. Again, if next year is the start of a string of heavy-weight teams, that's fine.

Is he? No one had us making the tournament last year and we did. No one had us making the tournament this year and we're in the conversation.