(debunked) Rumor: Froling Dismissed from Team

[skianth16]

I'm with Tugg on this one.   Never give up on a big.    I don't know Harry's future.   I do know that if he had come to MU during the Crean years or Buzz years he would have gotten a lot of playing time and would have been among the best bigs either of those two managed to land.    He has the odd fate to come to MU when it is awash in bigs.

Among the best bigs from the Crean and Buzz years? I'd take Otule, Gardner, Barro, Merritt all over Harry at this point, not to mention Crowder and Hayward who were 3/4 guys but still played big. Heck, at this point, even guys like Amoroso and Burke would be in that conversation.

And to say we're "awash" with bigs - right now we have Heldt, who is OK but not quite a power 6 caliber guy, and Theo, who is a physical specimen but very raw and still has a lot to learn - we're not exactly deep this year with high caliber bigs. Most guys with Harry's credentials probably would have expected to start this year and be a significant contributor. I don't want to rip the kid too much, but the argument you're making about him just doesn't make any sense.

[Tugg Speedman]

Among the best bigs from the Crean and Buzz years? I'd take Otule, Gardner, Barro, Merritt all over Harry at this point, not to mention Crowder and Hayward who were 3/4 guys but still played big. Heck, at this point, even guys like Amoroso and Burke would be in that conversation.

And to say we're "awash" with bigs - right now we have Heldt, who is OK but not quite a power 6 caliber guy, and Theo, who is a physical specimen but very raw and still has a lot to learn - we're not exactly deep this year with high caliber bigs. Most guys with Harry's credentials probably would have expected to start this year and be a significant contributor. I don't want to rip the kid too much, but the argument you're making about him just doesn't make any sense.

Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey.  All are 6'7" or taller.

Otherwise, how do you define "big"?

[Golden Avalanche]

Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey.  All are 6'7" or taller.

Otherwise, how do you define "big"?

Tall does not equal big. Big does not equal tall.

[skianth16]

Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey.  All are 6'7" or taller.

Otherwise, how do you define "big"?

I agree we'll be deep next year. Although I don't think Sam or Bailey will play at the 4 much. Maybe in some unique lineups. Also, don't forget Eke for next year.

What I said was that we're not deep this year (you even bolded those exact words  ), and we're still having a hard time finding a role for Harry. When we have even more competition for minutes, I'm not sure where he would fit in.

[tower912]

I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa.     Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner.   And Gardner was 6'7.   Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson.   I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land.    Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time.   But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.       

[Tugg Speedman]

I agree we'll be deep next year. Although I don't think Sam or Bailey will play at the 4 much. Maybe in some unique lineups. Also, don't forget Eke for next year.

What I said was that we're not deep this year (you even bolded those exact words  ), and we're still having a hard time finding a role for Harry. When we have even more competition for minutes, I'm not sure where he would fit in.

I think it all starts with his shot.  If he can knock down in 3PG, he gains confidence and there will be minutes for him.

[MU82]

I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa.     Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner.   And Gardner was 6'7.   Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson.   I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land.    Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time.   But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.       

Agree with this in general.

I will say that if Harry could get as adept at his role (whatever that turns out to be) as Otule and Barro were at theirs, I'd be quite content with him. And he'd get some PT.

[esotericmindguy]

Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey.  All are 6'7" or taller.

Otherwise, how do you define "big"?

And Ike Eke..

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Froling not dismissed from team.

Probably going back down under after the year.

[skianth16]

I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa.     Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner.   And Gardner was 6'7.   Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson.   I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land.    Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time.   But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.       

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree because we are on completely different pages. You must see some massive potential in Harry take him over guys who earned their minutes week in and week out. We haven't had any dominant big men, but we've had plenty of good role players who contributed to the teams they were on. Guys like Otule and Ousmanne and Merritt weren't out there single-handedly winning games for their teams, but they played solid minutes and did their jobs well enough. Sure, they could have been replaced by other big men pretty easily, but I'd still say they were better at the roles they played than Harry is now. Maybe Harry makes a big leap this summer, but I just don't see the minutes coming next year for us to ever find out.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Froling not dismissed from team.

Probably going back down under after the year.

Glad to hear it on the first part.

Hope that's not the case on the second part.

[tower912]

Because there was a lack of quality bigs, they played through their slumps.    Or the team went small.    When  Harry hit a slump, there was no way for him to play through it, as Heldt and Theo were doing creditable jobs.     Gardner and Otule knew their roles.   When they were both injured, Jamil Wilson played the 5 and extended minutes.     Ooze had two jobs on offense, to camp out in the little alley behind the backboard, catch dump offs,  and offensive rebound.    When he went out, he was replaced by.....Grimm?   Kinsella?   Lott?    The rest?   Please. 
    If Harry had come in in the exact situation that Luke did and was forced to play 30 minutes on a bad team, he would have been more successful than he has been on this team.   As good as Luke?   Probably not.    But good enough that we would be looking forward to next year instead of being blase' about him going back to Australia.   

[DCHoopster]

Glad to hear it on the first part.

Hope that's not the case on the second part.

Harry needs to work a summer and fall to get his game to the level of other college bigs.  It takes time for bigs to get going, plus Harry has a new body that he did not
have a year ago.  Just needs some confidence which at this time of year, will not get it.  If MU goes NIT, I would be giving him some real playing time.  He has a bigger
upside than Matt and even Theo.  He worked hard to change his body, now he has to work on playing ball.  I do not want to see him leave but I can see he will have an uphill battle for PT time next year.

[The Thing]

Tall does not equal big. Big does not equal tall.

"Judge me by my size, do you?"...
"Do. Or do not. There is no try." Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

[GGGG]

Because there was a lack of quality bigs, they played through their slumps.    Or the team went small.    When  Harry hit a slump, there was no way for him to play through it, as Heldt and Theo were doing creditable jobs.     Gardner and Otule knew their roles.   When they were both injured, Jamil Wilson played the 5 and extended minutes.     Ooze had two jobs on offense, to camp out in the little alley behind the backboard, catch dump offs,  and offensive rebound.    When he went out, he was replaced by.....Grimm?   Kinsella?   Lott?    The rest?   Please. 
    If Harry had come in in the exact situation that Luke did and was forced to play 30 minutes on a bad team, he would have been more successful than he has been on this team.   As good as Luke?   Probably not.    But good enough that we would be looking forward to next year instead of being blase' about him going back to Australia.   

Sorry but I just don't agree with this at all.  You are seeing something in him that I simply do not see.

[DCHoopster]

Sorry but I just don't agree with this at all.  You are seeing something in him that I simply do not see.

Lets see if he plays against DePaul, as he could play against Maric, slow white guy like him.  Take him out of the middle to open the lanes for the guards to
drive.

[tower912]

Fair enough.   I see a 6'11 guy with good hands, who looks to pass, who has nice form on his jump shot and has shown signs of being strong around the rim.... before his confidence disintegrated.    Defensively, I see a guy who is struggling to play defense against Big East bigs.    Who should never ever ever switch onto a guard.  (an aside:  this is one of the weaknesses of MU's pick and roll defense.  When the big either switches or lingers out high instead of hustling back to the lane after turning the PG.)    But who at least competes in post defense.   
    But right now, I see a guy with zero confidence on a team that has two other post players who are playing with confidence. 

But we can agree to disagree. 

I see him as having Bill Laimbeer skills, but lacking the confidence and attitude right now.    Also, I think he handles the ball better and can drive better than Laimbeer did.

[We R Final Four]

Froling not dismissed from team.

Probably going back down under after the year.

So, the source from the OP not that reliable after all. Oh well, great to throw it out there anyways.

[skianth16]

I think it all starts with his shot.  If he can knock down in 3PG, he gains confidence and there will be minutes for him.

That could be true about how he'll gain confidence, but is that what we need right now? We're one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the country already. Do we need anyone else hanging out 20 feet away from the hoop? We need help on the boards and on defense, two things Harry could really help us with. He's shown himself to be a good rebounder, and having an extra big body in the paint should help out on D, at least in certain situations. Maybe his skillset works better with next year's roster than this year's and the minutes will come easier. Only time will tell (hopefully).

[Tugg Speedman]

That could be true about how he'll gain confidence, but is that what we need right now? We're one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the country already. Do we need anyone else hanging out 20 feet away from the hoop? We need help on the boards and on defense, two things Harry could really help us with. He's shown himself to be a good rebounder, and having an extra big body in the paint should help out on D, at least in certain situations. Maybe his skillset works better with next year's roster than this year's and the minutes will come easier. Only time will tell (hopefully).

I agree with this.  Next year we will have plenty of muscle under the basket.  He can then compete to be Sam's backup at the stretch 4 position.

[connie]

I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa.     Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner.   And Gardner was 6'7.   Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson.   I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land.    Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time.   But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.       

I think you under rate Otule and Ooze, but can see your point.

[MU82]

If he stays, fine. Maybe he still can find a role.

If he goes, fine. We have plenty of others at his position and can use the scholly on somebody else.

This is one I'm definitely not gonna lose sleep on.

Either Wojo and staff didn't do a very good job preparing him for the rigors of the Big East (I'm bullish on Wojo, but nobody is perfect) ... or Bilas and other yakkers vastly overstated Harry's potential (I'm a big Bilas fan, but the guy kept saying Gasser would get drafted and play in the NBA).

[skianth16]

Froling not dismissed from team.

Probably going back down under after the year.

Did you hear something about this, or are you just assuming he's still with the team since there hasn't been any news about it?

[DCHoopster]

I agree with this.  Next year we will have plenty of muscle under the basket.  He can then compete to be Sam's backup at the stretch 4 position.

Next year MU will have 3 Power forwards.  Add Morrow and Joey.  Sam is a stretch forward, and I am pretty sure he will have a hard time guarding players like
Mikal Bridges or anyone like him.  The question that has to be answered is can Morrow guard a 3.  If he can then, you can play them together.  I still see Cain,
Anim and maybe Bailey playing the small forward.  There will be more interchangeable parts next year, that is for sure.  Like to have one of the three bigs make a
big jump.  It would be Theo or Harry, I think you have seen the best from Matt.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Next year MU will have 3 Power forwards.  Add Morrow and Joey.  Sam is a stretch forward, and I am pretty sure he will have a hard time guarding players like
Mikal Bridges or anyone like him.  The question that has to be answered is can Morrow guard a 3.  If he can then, you can play them together.  I still see Cain,
Anim and maybe Bailey playing the small forward.  There will be more interchangeable parts next year, that is for sure.  Like to have one of the three bigs make a
big jump.  It would be Theo or Harry, I think you have seen the best from Matt.

Good thing Bridges will be in the NBA!

I think Sam will primarily play the 3 next year.