St. John's game thread

[Floorslapper]

Too bad we're not playing all zone, eh?

Well..baby steps with Wojo.  He's still clearly learning on the job in Year 4.  Thankfully he rolled with the zone for a majority of the game.  Clearly he made a major miscalculation thinking the Rowsey Howard lineup was the formula for success.

[chapman]

Dickie Simpkins may be the worst.

While I dread the call as much as anyone, very on point in the post game interview with Wojo.  Quite good.  An interesting angle from Dickie.

[jesmu84]

While I dread the call as much as anyone, very on point in the post game interview with Wojo.  Quite good.  An interesting angle from Dickie.

What was it?

[Spotcheck Billy]

What was it?

53°

[warriorchick]

Well..baby steps with Wojo.  He's still clearly learning on the job in Year 4.  Thankfully he rolled with the zone for a majority of the game.  Clearly he made a major miscalculation thinking the Rowsey Howard lineup was the formula for success.

Yeah, it's a shame he's not as smart as you guys when it comes to basketball strategy.

You know, there is a reason he was sitting on the bench last night and y'all were laying on your couch eating Funyuns.     

[Floorslapper]

Yeah, it's a shame he's not as smart as you guys when it comes to basketball strategy.

You know, there is a reason he was sitting on the bench last night and y'all were laying on your couch eating Funyuns.     

Have no doubt Wojo knows more than any of us about basketball strategy.  Yet, also pretty sure there are a number of posters here who see the game better than does Wojo.  Many have called for zone.  For minimizing the time together of Rowsey/Howard.  Wojo refused to do both until forced to due to the Markus injury.  It is what it is.  I'll leave this here for you from February 7th:

You greatly underestimate Rowsey's value.  You absolutely do NOT want to see Markus Howard run the Point.

Over the last 4 games here are Markus's numbers:

137 Minutes Played
88 points
21/44 on 2ptFG
10/32 on 3ptFG
*This is 76 shot attempts over 4 games to generate 88 points.
10 Assists
14 Turnovers

Rowsey:
108 minutes played
42 points
6/16 2ptFG
6/20 3ptFG
12 Assists
7 Turnovers

Markus has gone full on hero ball, and the team has suffered as a result.  Rowsey has not been playing well the last 4 games, yet taking him out and watching Markus run PG is NOT the solution.  Personally, I feel Markus needs to be sat down and serve as the 6th man for instant offense.  Clearly Markus has little interest in passing to his teammates.

[Its DJOver]

Its weird how people like to point out the Freshman's improvements, but think that someone, who could very well end up being the all time leading scorer in program history can't improve.  Is Markus as good of a true point as Rowsey right now? Absolutely not.  However, when Rowsey is playing to distribute, he is by far the best PG we've had since Dom.  Everyone expects the Freshman to continue to grow, but think that Markus can't.  Last offseason he developed the floater, why do people think that he can't improve his ball handling/vision?  There have certainly been times that Rowsey was a bad distributor, and clearly Wojo has gotten him to change his game. He is still a high volume shooter, but he has vastly improved his passing.  Why would we believe that Wojo can't get the same out of Markus.  There's a lot of talk about the improvements of Sacar, Matt, and Theo, so the ability to develop players is clearly there on Wojos part.  I realize that he hasn't shown it a ton yet as a PG, but does anyone really believe that Markus won't improve as an upperclassman?  Keep in mind that traditionally the biggest jump for players is from Sophomore to Junior year, or second year in the program to third year, see Sacar this year. 

[jsglow]

Its weird how people like to point out the Freshman's improvements, but think that someone, who could very well end up being the all time leading scorer in program history can't improve.  Is Markus as good of a true point as Rowsey right now? Absolutely not.  However, when Rowsey is playing to distribute, he is by far the best PG we've had since Dom.  Everyone expects the Freshman to continue to grow, but think that Markus can't.  Last offseason he developed the floater, why do people think that he can't improve his ball handling/vision?  There have certainly been times that Rowsey was a bad distributor, and clearly Wojo has gotten him to change his game. He is still a high volume shooter, but he has vastly improved his passing.  Why would we believe that Wojo can't get the same out of Markus.  There's a lot of talk about the improvements of Sacar, Matt, and Theo, so the ability to develop players is clearly there on Wojos part.  I realize that he hasn't shown it a ton yet as a PG, but does anyone really believe that Markus won't improve as an upperclassman?  Keep in mind that traditionally the biggest jump for players is from Sophomore to Junior year, or second year in the program to third year, see Sacar this year.

You make an excellent point.  And Markus HAS improved since his Frosh year when essentially every lane penetration resulted in a turnover.  He's a smart, hard working kid.  No doubt he'll work on his craft.

[Floorslapper]

You make an excellent point.  And Markus HAS improved since his Frosh year when essentially every lane penetration resulted in a turnover.  He's a smart, hard working kid.  No doubt he'll work on his craft.

Agree with all of this.  Markus is a stud on every level - as a player and a person.  However, things got carried away with Wojo saying and giving him the "ultimate green light."  Believe this time on the bench will be helpful to Markus's growth as a PG/teammate and seeing he doesn't need to do it all on his own.

Great news is Wojo now has a formula for next year even if we don't land a PG:  You can roll with what I expect to be an improved Markus at PG, surround him with length in a zone, find situational rest for Markus - and the team can be stellar next year.

Yes, we will miss Rowsey a lot, but I see no reason why Markus can't step into the role Andrew has RIGHT now (with Markus out), and not perform comparably (after another summer of ball handling work.)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Have no doubt Wojo knows more than any of us about basketball strategy.

Yes, totally. I'm on board.

Yet, also pretty sure there are a number of posters here who see the game better than does Wojo.

Hoo boy.

"Wojo knows more about basketball than any of us.....except for me."

I wasn't sure if our new Floor Slapping friend was Ners or not. Now I am convinced.

[willie warrior]

Agree with all of this.  Markus is a stud on every level - as a player and a person.  However, things got carried away with Wojo saying and giving him the "ultimate green light."  Believe this time on the bench will be helpful to Markus's growth as a PG/teammate and seeing he doesn't need to do it all on his own.

Great news is Wojo now has a formula for next year even if we don't land a PG:  You can roll with what I expect to be an improved Markus at PG, surround him with length in a zone, find situational rest for Markus - and the team can be stellar next year.

Yes, we will miss Rowsey a lot, but I see no reason why Markus can't step into the role Andrew has RIGHT now (with Markus out), and not perform comparably (after another summer of ball handling work.)

While I agree that Markus is a very good player, "a stud at every level" is over the top. His defense clearly is not studly, nor is his ball distribution. Hopefully those areas will continue to improve.

[MU82]

Its weird how people like to point out the Freshman's improvements, but think that someone, who could very well end up being the all time leading scorer in program history can't improve.  Is Markus as good of a true point as Rowsey right now? Absolutely not.  However, when Rowsey is playing to distribute, he is by far the best PG we've had since Dom.  Everyone expects the Freshman to continue to grow, but think that Markus can't.  Last offseason he developed the floater, why do people think that he can't improve his ball handling/vision?  There have certainly been times that Rowsey was a bad distributor, and clearly Wojo has gotten him to change his game. He is still a high volume shooter, but he has vastly improved his passing.  Why would we believe that Wojo can't get the same out of Markus.  There's a lot of talk about the improvements of Sacar, Matt, and Theo, so the ability to develop players is clearly there on Wojos part.  I realize that he hasn't shown it a ton yet as a PG, but does anyone really believe that Markus won't improve as an upperclassman?  Keep in mind that traditionally the biggest jump for players is from Sophomore to Junior year, or second year in the program to third year, see Sacar this year.

Totally agree. Markus can improve, and hopefully he will. By all accounts, he's a smart, hard-working kid. He certainly is intelligent enough to know that his only road to the NBA is as a PG.

If Markus can become at least as good a distributor as Rowsey has been the past couple of games, it will benefit both him and the 2018-19 Warriors tremendously.

[muwarrior69]

While I agree that Markus is a very good player, "a stud at every level" is over the top. His defense clearly is not studly, nor is his ball distribution. Hopefully those areas will continue to improve.

....or his ability to protect the ball at times.

[Floorslapper]

Yes, totally. I'm on board.

Hoo boy.

"Wojo knows more about basketball than any of us.....except for me."

I wasn't sure if our new Floor Slapping friend was Ners or not. Now I am convinced.

So in your view head coaches by virtue of their position alone, never make bad coaching decisions?  It is beyond the realm of possibility that die hard fans who study the sport closely cannot observe a better way of doing things? 

Can you please breakdown our PPP in conference play prior to Creighton game?  Very curious what those numbers look like.  Also, how did our PPP break down in St. John's game zone/versus man - and how many trips to FT line were result of zone vs man?

You do provide great research here TAMU, thus why I ask you to perform the above.  Research expert in chief here. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So in your view head coaches by virtue of their position alone, never make bad coaching decisions?  It is beyond the realm of possibility that die hard fans who study the sport closely cannot observe a better way of doing things? 

I didn't say that. If you had said that you thought Wojo had got this one decision wrong or you disagreed with something he did, I wouldn't have said anything. I've disagreed with a lot of individual decisions Wojo has made.

But you said "you see the game better than he does." Maybe I'm misinterpreting but to me that sounds a lot like "I know more than the coach does."

Can you please breakdown our PPP in conference play prior to Creighton game?  Very curious what those numbers look like.  Also, how did our PPP break down in St. John's game zone/versus man - and how many trips to FT line were result of zone vs man?

You do provide great research here TAMU, thus why I ask you to perform the above.  Research expert in chief here. 

Synergy doesn't have a setting just for conference games so I honestly don't have that data. I can look total season results, individual game results, and postseason results. For individual games, it gives the breakdown of possessions in zones, possessions of man, possessions scored against zone, and possessions scored against man, but not how many points were scored against the zone. If there's a way to get that data, I haven't found a way to manipulate synergy to do that yet.

What I can tell you is what I said this morning, we played 41 possessions of zone and 20 possessions of man. They scored 15 times against the zone (36.7%) and 6 times against the man (30%). This includes when they scored free throws from getting fouled. Given that we played more man in the first half and Saint John's only shot 3 FTs in the first half (compared to 11 in the second), my assumption is that more of the fouls (or at least more of the shooting fouls) came against the zone. Also, St. John's made 7 of their 11 three pointers in the second half so my assumption is that more of those came against the zone. This likely means that the man was significantly better from a ppp standpoint.

However, I will say that the offense seemed to flow better when we played zone on defense. As previously mentioned, we played mostly zone in the second half. We shot and scored much better in the second. It seemed to me that the zone was better at leading to transition offense....but it didn't force more turnovers. SJU had 7 turns in the first half and 5 in the second. We were doing a better job pushing the offense after a missed shot during the second half than the first half. I don't know if that is the result of an adjustment on offense....or if the zone caused SJU to take more jumpers, which leads to long rebounds, which can lead to transition.

[Floorslapper]

I didn't say that. If you had said that you thought Wojo had got this one decision wrong or you disagreed with something he did, I wouldn't have said anything. I've disagreed with a lot of individual decisions Wojo has made.

But you said "you see the game better than he does." Maybe I'm misinterpreting but to me that sounds a lot like "I know more than the coach does."

Synergy doesn't have a setting just for conference games so I honestly don't have that data. I can look total season results, individual game results, and postseason results. For individual games, it gives the breakdown of possessions in zones, possessions of man, possessions scored against zone, and possessions scored against man, but not how many points were scored against the zone. If there's a way to get that data, I haven't found a way to manipulate synergy to do that yet.

What I can tell you is what I said this morning, we played 41 possessions of zone and 20 possessions of man. They scored 15 times against the zone (36.7%) and 6 times against the man (30%). This includes when they scored free throws from getting fouled. Given that we played more man in the first half and Saint John's only shot 3 FTs in the first half (compared to 11 in the second), my assumption is that more of the fouls (or at least more of the shooting fouls) came against the zone. Also, St. John's made 7 of their 11 three pointers in the second half so my assumption is that more of those came against the zone. This likely means that the man was significantly better from a ppp standpoint.

However, I will say that the offense seemed to flow better when we played zone on defense. As previously mentioned, we played mostly zone in the second half. We shot and scored much better in the second. It seemed to me that the zone was better at leading to transition offense....but it didn't force more turnovers. SJU had 7 turns in the first half and 5 in the second. We were doing a better job pushing the offense after a missed shot during the second half than the first half. I don't know if that is the result of an adjustment on offense....or if the zone caused SJU to take more jumpers, which leads to long rebounds, which can lead to transition.

To clarify, re-read what I posted - I said there are a NUMBER of posters here who see the game better than does Wojo.  Not myself.   Generally Wojo has really struggled with in-game adjustments.  That is the ultimate barometer of seeing the game.  "Everybody has a plan until they get hit."  Mike Tyson.  Wojo's plan/strategy may be fine, but once it fails it historically has seemed like there is little counter-punch ability.

Thanks for the additional info on Synergy.  I've never used the tool/had access.  If not too much trouble could you go back game by game in conference and share our PPP numbers?  Would be really interesting to see.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Agree with all of this.  Markus is a stud on every level - as a player and a person.  However, things got carried away with Wojo saying and giving him the "ultimate green light."  Believe this time on the bench will be helpful to Markus's growth as a PG/teammate and seeing he doesn't need to do it all on his own.

Great news is Wojo now has a formula for next year even if we don't land a PG:  You can roll with what I expect to be an improved Markus at PG, surround him with length in a zone, find situational rest for Markus - and the team can be stellar next year.

Yes, we will miss Rowsey a lot, but I see no reason why Markus can't step into the role Andrew has RIGHT now (with Markus out), and not perform comparably (after another summer of ball handling work.)

I agree with this.  When ur coach tells the media he is one of the best players in America.  When he says u have the ultimate green light, when he says ur bad shots are better than most guys good shots .... what do u expect from an 18 yo??  A straight up chucker that kills offensive flow.
Other coaches would publicly give him props but also publicly call him out for his deficiencies.  Seems like a Henry all over again, that despite Henry chucking 3s at a 27% rate he encouraged him to keep chucking them.  While anyone could see his 3 point chucking was hurting the team.
Seems wojo is afraid to be honest with his star players

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Yes, totally. I'm on board.

Hoo boy.

"Wojo knows more about basketball than any of us.....except for me."

I wasn't sure if our new Floor Slapping friend was Ners or not. Now I am convinced.

Ners gonna Ners. 

I mean, can Wojo even dunk?

[Its DJOver]

I agree with this.  When ur coach tells the media he is one of the best players in America.  When he says u have the ultimate green light, when he says ur bad shots are better than most guys good shots .... what do u expect from an 18 yo??  A straight up chucker that kills offensive flow.
Other coaches would publicly give him props but also publicly call him out for his deficiencies.  Seems like a Henry all over again, that despite Henry chucking 3s at a 27% rate he encouraged him to keep chucking them.  While anyone could see his 3 point chucking was hurting the team.
Seems wojo is afraid to be honest with his star players

Please explain Rowseys transition into a solid passing PG then.  Henry knew he was gone at the end of the season and did whatever he thought was best for his draft stock.  Wojo got AR to adjust his game, and I'm confident that he can do the same with MH.  Just because he isn't calling Markus our publicly does not mean that they aren't having conversations about his shots selection.  Markus is a smart kid, I expect him to be able to adjust to a more pass focused role next year.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Im quite sure n hope that wojo is addressing Markus deficiencies.  However his shot selection and his pkaying time would not suggest that they are an issue. 

[Its DJOver]

Im quite sure n hope that wojo is addressing Markus deficiencies.  However his shot selection and his pkaying time would not suggest that they are an issue. 

As Brew pointed out in the STJ thoughts thread, as recently as three games ago, the Freshman were putting up goose eggs in the scoring column.  If no one else will shoot, I have no problem with Markus and Rowsey chucking the way they were.  Markus launching 5 feet behind the line at 30% is better than 3-5 shoot clock violations per game.

[Newsdreams]

I agree with this.  When ur coach tells the media he is one of the best players in America.  When he says u have the ultimate green light, when he says ur bad shots are better than most guys good shots .... what do u expect from an 18 yo??  A straight up chucker that kills offensive flow.
Other coaches would publicly give him props but also publicly call him out for his deficiencies.  Seems like a Henry all over again, that despite Henry chucking 3s at a 27% rate he encouraged him to keep chucking them.  While anyone could see his 3 point chucking was hurting the team.
Seems wojo is afraid to be honest with his star players

HS / college - Usually not

[Floorslapper]

As Brew pointed out in the STJ thoughts thread, as recently as three games ago, the Freshman were putting up goose eggs in the scoring column.  If no one else will shoot, I have no problem with Markus and Rowsey chucking the way they were.  Markus launching 5 feet behind the line at 30% is better than 3-5 shoot clock violations per game.

Hard to shoot when no shots are available due to one player taking 34% of your shots in conference play.  Of course Cain, Elliott, Sacar, et al would like to get some shots up, yet, what can you do when you have two guys who are eating nearly 64% of all shots?

[Floorslapper]

Ners gonna Ners. 

I mean, can Wojo even dunk?

Don't think so.  But, he can definitely get down and slap the floor. 

[Its DJOver]

Hard to shoot when no shots are available due to one player taking 34% of your shots in conference play.  Of course Cain, Elliott, Sacar, et al would like to get some shots up, yet, what can you do when you have two guys who are eating nearly 64% of all shots?

In the loss at St. John's the freshman, (Theo gets a pass, but Greg, Jamal, Harry, and Sacar) shot a combined 3-11.  That shows a willingness to shoot, but not to make shots.  All of them, other than Harry, have had times when they get hot and put up some points, Sacar vs CU, Jamal had 11 the second time round vs STJ, and Greg had 13 against PC, but if they're not hitting shots, they don't have the confidence to continue to shoot. 
Markus only shot slights better vs STJ (6-19) but he also got to the free throw line, and had many of the shot clock three's that no one other than AR is taking.  Bottom line, when young players are missing shots, they're not going to keep shooting.  Markus may be young, but in terms of experience he only trails AR, and Sam, so I'd rather take my chances of him getting hot, than Jamal or Greg.