I place this all on the coaching staff.

[skianth16]

It's always fun reading through threads that are just bickering matches over who was more right or more wrong on Scoop. We should really have more of these. Talking about basketball is way overrated.

[Goose]

16

I can assure you that I have ZERO interest in being right or changing opinions. I am simply stating my opinion. It might differ from yours, some or everybody and I am fine with that. Any debate really comes down to ones perspective of what program should look like. To me, it is similar to debating wealth. Some people feel having a million dollars is being rich and to others it is not. Again, I could not care less if anyone agrees with me or not.

[Its DJOver]

TAMU

My issue last year, and currently, is make no fair assessments. Many post good things simply because they want them to be true. My gut says 90% on the Neenah Express were fingers crossed optimistic, but can across as on the Express. Last year’s team was better, but in big picture means nothing.
I think you know me well to enough to know is all that matters is the big picture. Regardless of last year talk, I am not nearly as jacked for next season as most. They should be better on paper, but a lot of things need to fall into place. I would prefer being position to only question how good are they going to be. IMO they are not at that point.

While I think that we will make the tourney next year with considerable room to spare, I agree that we have quite a few question marks to fill before we get there.  We still need a true PG, we still need both Greg and Jamal to put on 15 lbs while hopefully also working on their offensive weapons, we need to see some development from Harry, I think he has the tool set to get there but it has not shown up on the court yet, we need both Ed and Joey to be as good as advertised.  That's a lot of things that need to happen to have a great team, and while I think that they all could happen, writing them off as guarantees at this point is foolish, so there is considerable work to be done.

I think the reason that a lot of people are so bullish on next year is because while we haven't exceeded expectations this year, we have shown flashes of being a good team.  Another thing is that this is the deepest the Beast has been since the realignment, where 70% could still theoretically receive an at large bid, the conference could very easily get two #1 seeds, and I think the BEast is the only power conference where I could see any team winning the conference tourney, the bottom half would be a stretch, but the way upsets have happened this year nothing would surprise me.  Next year the conference overall will not be as good, or as deep.  Many teams will either lose multiple major contributors to graduation or the NBA, and we've seen first hand this year that while doable, it is not easy to replace 4 of your top 7-9.  We only lose one player next year, while everybody else, other than Nova, which could put 3 in the NBA, and Butler, who will be losing 2 of their top 3 players, is graduating at least 4 seniors.  IMO it would not take an incredibly large step forward for us to catch a lot of teams, since they will likely be taking a step back.

Make no mistakes, we still will have some question marks going into next year, but they will be about getting players to take the next step rather than finding new, and most likely younger players, to replace either Seniors or players that made the NBA.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

It's always fun reading through threads that are just bickering matches over who was more right or more wrong on Scoop. We should really have more of these. Talking about basketball is way overrated.

Yah..and the constant Wojo bashing agenda is so much more refreshing!

[skianth16]

Yah..and the constant Wojo bashing agenda is so much more refreshing!

Look dude, if you want to crown Wojo as a success before he accomplishes anything of note, go right ahead. I'm not impressed by Wojo because I haven't seen much from him outside of landing a few good recruits. That's not bashing. That's not saying he sucks. That's just saying he hasn't proven anything big yet. If you want to keep handing out participation trophies for Wojo and then whining every time someone disagrees with you, so be it.

At least talking about Wojo is about MU hoops. The constant back and forth when posters like you bring up people's posting history is petty and annoying. Try to stay on topic. If you want to gossip go to a Real Housewives forum. They'd love to have you.

[jesmu84]

Look dude, if you want to crown Wojo as a success before he accomplishes anything of note, go right ahead. I'm not impressed by Wojo because I haven't seen much from him outside of landing a few good recruits. That's not bashing. That's not saying he sucks. That's just saying he hasn't proven anything big yet. If you want to keep handing out participation trophies for Wojo and then whining every time someone disagrees with you, so be it.

At least talking about Wojo is about MU hoops. The constant back and forth when posters like you bring up people's posting history is petty and annoying. Try to stay on topic. If you want to gossip go to a Real Housewives forum. They'd love to have you.

Aw. The little snowflake got triggered.

Look, you made your bed. Sleep in it. You've been nothing but anti-wojo. You've proven it time after time.  Even using distorted, twisted logic to erase anything good he has done or might do in the future.

If you don't like getting called out, don't post.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Look dude, if you want to crown Wojo as a success before he accomplishes anything of note, go right ahead. I'm not impressed by Wojo because I haven't seen much from him outside of landing a few good recruits. That's not bashing. That's not saying he sucks. That's just saying he hasn't proven anything big yet. If you want to keep handing out participation trophies for Wojo and then whining every time someone disagrees with you, so be it.

At least talking about Wojo is about MU hoops. The constant back and forth when posters like you bring up people's posting history is petty and annoying. Try to stay on topic. If you want to gossip go to a Real Housewives forum. They'd love to have you.

I don’t talk about hoops? Look at my post history. You’re quite a bit off base here. Not sure how many posts you can categorize as “gossip”.

I don’t think Wojo is some hero either. I think I’ve made that pretty clear. But WTF did you expect this year? How complicated is it? This was a backend tournament team if the cards ran well. It was an NIT if not. That path is still followed. Gnash your teeth and flame your pitchforks over individual results if you so please, but it’s ridiculous. At least see the season out. Next season is the true test. IF next season is a disaster, my tune on Wojo changes significantly.

[GGGG]

Look dude, if you want to crown Wojo as a success before he accomplishes anything of note, go right ahead. I'm not impressed by Wojo because I haven't seen much from him outside of landing a few good recruits. That's not bashing. That's not saying he sucks. That's just saying he hasn't proven anything big yet. If you want to keep handing out participation trophies for Wojo and then whining every time someone disagrees with you, so be it.

At least talking about Wojo is about MU hoops. The constant back and forth when posters like you bring up people's posting history is petty and annoying. Try to stay on topic. If you want to gossip go to a Real Housewives forum. They'd love to have you.

Complains about bickering

<a few posts later>

Bickers.

[Dr. Blackheart]

For Lent, I gave up bickering about Wojo's defensive scheme.  Now, I am just praying the defense gets better. 

Eat Arby's (but not on Lenten Friday's)!

[skianth16]

Complains about bickering

<a few posts later>

Bickers.

Welp, I walked right into that one. Well played.

[hairy worthen]

For Lent, I gave up bickering about Wojo's defensive scheme.  Now, I am just praying the defense gets better. 

Eat Arby's (but not on Lenten Friday's)!

I gave up swearing for lent.

btw arby's  has a damn good fooking fish sandwich

[WarriorDad]

WarriorDAd

Forget upper end talent coaches, you are talking decades ago. Not really sure, with exception of VA, what your post has to do with today's game. From my perspective, a rebuild should not take half a decade. To boot, Wojo has every asset available at his finger tips. Who knows, maybe this type of program the BOT wanted all along. Good kids that might surprise the fan base from time to time.

You think it is wrong for the BOT to want a clean program that competes and strives for the NCAA, with occasional deep runs? That is what they want.   Rebuilds are not the same, some take longer than others.  Circumstances matter.  The schedule, how good the conference is, injuries, transfers, what players were already on the team, the surroundings  (e.g. it was much easier for Kevin O'Neill to get Wisconsin's best players then when Wisconsin was a terrible basketball program than it is today, conversely Kevin O'Neill had to recruit to a dump in the Gym vs current coaches recruiting to a nice practice facility).

What surprises me in your comments is you felt this year we would be where we are at (avg), despite losing 3 seniors that scored double digits and 1 academic senior (Duane), but this next season you think we will be worse despite only losing one senior and adding a very good power forward, a top 25 national recruit, and more size.  I find your basketball posts insightful, but that is a tough one for me to square on where you head is. 

[Goose]

WarriorDad

I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.

[TedBaxter]

WarriorDad

I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.

I disagree.

[Goose]

Ted

Hope you are right. So, what do you expect next season? Are they in better place because better team or down year in BE?

[TedBaxter]

Ted

Hope you are right. So, what do you expect next season? Are they in better place because better team or down year in BE?

Top 15-20.  Team will be more experienced, stronger, more athletic, better passing team and will have a better defense as they are more familiar with each other.  Helps that there are a ton of good seniors graduating from Big East schools.  Need another guard recruit who can help out at the point.

[MUDPT]

WarriorDad

I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.

Put me bearish on next season.  Even if we have the players to play defense, our coaching staff (so far) has shown no ability to coach a top 25 defense.  Right now, we are 162nd ind DE.  You have to go to SD State at 83 to find a team lower than that on Pomeroy.  Last year, many said our defense would be better because we had "more fouls to give" by our big guys.  Didn't happen, not optimistic it will happen next year.

[brewcity77]

WarriorDad

I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.

I don't know where they'll be next year. The added length and experience does give reasons for hope, and I don't think people projecting a top-20 finish are overreaching. However, if we don't figure it out on defense, if we can't replace Rowsey as an offensive option when Markus isn't on his game, and if we end up on the bubble again (9-seed or worse) then I do think there are serious questions about the capability of the staff.

I understand the optimism, but if it proves to be unfounded, it may well be time for a change. My thoughts are cautious optimism, with the understanding that it should be somewhat a make-or-break year.

[Floorslapper]

Everything you said makes sense.  And I expected a slight step back too.  What gives me concern is now I'm worried we'll lose out.  This season could go from disappointing to really bad. 

Also, it appears we are the type of program where the coach isn't going to engineer a few wins here and there.  We're going to need the horses.  The good news, I think he is good at getting those horses.

I think this perfectly sums up our reality with Wojo at the helm.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out.  Mentioned previously that we play an entertaining style of basketball, and by no means is it an awful product Wojo is putting on the floor.

We have a lot of talent on this year's team, more arriving next year - yet, feel Wojo's coaching chops 4 years in, have not shown that he can engineer some wins strategically through outwitting opposing coaches.  If our guys aren't hitting at a high clip from 3, we lose.  Simple as that.

[1SE]

There seems to be an emerging plurality that, barring a miraculous turnaround starting tonight, next year is going to be make or break for Wojo.

That sounds like a seat that's getting warm.

[Its DJOver]

There seems to be an emerging plurality that, barring a miraculous turnaround starting tonight, next year is going to be make or break for Wojo.

That sounds like a seat that's getting warm.

Us declaring his seat warm, is a lot different from his seat actually being warm in the eyes of the BOT.  I'm sure that Wojo knows that if he doesn't deliver this year or next year he might have to start keeping an eye open for new employment.

[Eldon]

That's why I bumped this thread

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54588.0

(from September, it mentions this season's expectations)

[Class71]

Us declaring his seat warm, is a lot different from his seat actually being warm in the eyes of the BOT.  I'm sure that Wojo knows that if he doesn't deliver this year or next year he might have to start keeping an eye open for new employment.

After reading the recent Yahoo article concerning the ongoing basketball investigation there may be many hot seats next year. Assuming we have a clean program the BOT may be a little concerned about changing anyone until the dust settles. How long that takes will likely depend on how long the investigation continues. 

[bilsu]

Top 15-20.  Team will be more experienced, stronger, more athletic, better passing team and will have a better defense as they are more familiar with each other.  Helps that there are a ton of good seniors graduating from Big East schools.  Need another guard recruit who can help out at the point.

We could be good next year, but I am starting to have my doubts. We do not know what effect Joey's ankle surgery will have on him. We do not know what effect Bailey's two year mission will have on him. Eke also had surgery. So we are adding three question marks. Morrow should be ready to contribute. I do not think Heldt and Froling are not going to improve much. Right now we are looking at either Howard or Elliott playing point and the only backup being Cain. That alone could be a potential disaster. There is no guarantee that we can add another quality guard for next season. In spite of Wojo's history everyone seems to be assuming that we will have no transfers out, but we will not be safe from having a transfer out until every player shows up for the second semester.

I am not in the fire Wojo camp, but this probably is the best time to do it. We only have two incoming freshmen and Joey is already enrolled in school. We only risk losing Bailey, if Wojo is fired now. Now is uch better timing then risking a large recruiting class.

[tower912]

If MU gets a transfer PG, normal progression from the returnees,  Morrow is who we think he is, and we get nothing from Bailey, Joey, and Ike, next year's team is still a tourney team.