Question JUCO

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

You guys have spoken well to the issue.  MU went to a 'policy' of only accepting players that could meet the academic requirements for graduation concurrent with the expiry of their athletic scholarship.  Now of course there's wiggle room.  Plenty of guys graduate in summer, for example.  And actual graduation wasn't even required.  The Jae situation is a perfect example of what wasn't allowed going forward.  There was a belief that the prior policy (really, there wasn't one) had the potential to 'use' student athletes.

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks we used Jae is looking at this through a procedural lens.  Jae used us and we benefitted. 

If you want to give people like Jae a safety net guarantee his tuition through completion of degree - don't say he can't come to college. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks we used Jae is looking at this through a procedural lens.  Jae used us and we benefitted. 

If you want to give people like Jae a safety net guarantee his tuition through completion of degree - don't say he can't come to college.

Truth

[GGGG]

You are missing the fact that Jucos like Jae negatively impact Marquette's APR score.  That being said, it's what Marquette's leaders want.  So there it is.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

You are missing the fact that Jucos like Jae negatively impact Marquette's APR score.  That being said, it's what Marquette's leaders want.  So there it is.

Many things impact the APR including things that grad transfers and 'four year' players do as well. So no I am not missing it and I trust the program to manage it (Which they did).

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with the second half of your point other than being antagonistic.  It is pretty obvious what is being chosen by the admin. 

[jsglow]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks we used Jae is looking at this through a procedural lens.  Jae used us and we benefitted. 

If you want to give people like Jae a safety net guarantee his tuition through completion of degree - don't say he can't come to college.

As Sultan said, I'm simply describing the way MU's administration sees it, especially as it pertains to the singular purpose for the university's existence.

[The Lens]

You are missing the fact that Jucos like Jae negatively impact Marquette's APR score.  That being said, it's what Marquette's leaders want.  So there it is.

How?  I thought all he had to do we was leave in good standing, ie, complete his final 12 or 15 credits. 

To the point of Henry, everyone knows he's going pro, save for an ACL tear.  And if we take a Juco who is far behind but still qualifies, I would propose that he is able to return to campus following his eligibility being exhausted to continue to work towards his degree.  Men's basketball players should have lifetime scholarships for undergraduate studies.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

As Sultan said, I'm simply describing the way MU's administration sees it, especially as it pertains to the singular purpose for the university's existence.

Agree to disagree.  I think pretending HE is more likely to have a diploma than Jae also violates the singular purpose for the university's existence. 

Also if we feel so bad about using him we should probably stop plastering his name on all our NBA advertisements for ex players.  Wouldn't want to use him, you know?

[jsglow]

You guys are all missing the point.  The administration simply thinks it's wrong and not in keeping with the mission.  It's really as simple as that.  Now someone can disagree but that's different.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

JS I know you are just explaining the universities position. I am just saying I disagree with it. 

[RJax55]

To the point of Henry, everyone knows he's going pro, save for an ACL tear.  And if we take a Juco who is far behind but still qualifies, I would propose that he is able to return to campus following his eligibility being exhausted to continue to work towards his degree.  Men's basketball players should have lifetime scholarships for undergraduate studies.

Is that something that is allowable per NCAA rules?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

JS I know you are just explaining the universities position. I am just saying I disagree with it.

It's fine you disagree with the universities position, but comparing Henry's situation to the situation of a JUCO who it is literally impossible for them to graduate before their scholarship runs out is an apples to oranges comparison. One is the student's choice, the other the student has no choice.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It's fine you disagree with the universities position, but comparing Henry's situation to the situation of a JUCO who it is literally impossible for them to graduate before their scholarship runs out is an apples to oranges comparison. One is the student's choice, the other the student has no choice.

Seems like a funny place for the university to take a stand against abusive NCAA regulations. 

Why offer one year renewable scholarships.  That takes away the students choice. Marquette should no longer do that either.

You don't need to respond.  I understand why some think it's a justifiable position - I just reject that taking a stand makes a positive difference in a players life or for the university. 

[Newsdreams]

Seems like a funny place for the university to take a stand against abusive NCAA regulations. 

Why offer one year renewable scholarships.  That takes away the students choice. Marquette should no longer do that either.

You don't need to respond.  I understand why some think it's a justifiable position - I just reject that taking a stand makes a positive difference in a players life or for the university.

You sure you understand Crowder's recruitment? And how it was going to be impossible for him to graduate, Buzz didn't sweep the corners and chose to sweep the dirt under the bed.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

You sure you understand Crowder's recruitment? And how it was going to be impossible for him to graduate, Buzz didn't sweep the corners and chose to sweep the dirt under the bed.

It does not bother me at all if he could not graduate in 2 years.  I don't care if it took him four years even though he could only play ball for two.  Doesn't bother me as long as he meets the NCAA regulations.

Wally got offered a track scholly when he got cut.  I'm sure they could find something for 'hypothetical' Jae that didn't go pro.   

[Newsdreams]

It does not bother me at all if he could not graduate in 2 years.  I don't care if it took him four years even though he could only play ball for two.  Doesn't bother me as long as he meets the NCAA regulations.

Wally got offered a track scholly when he got cut.  I'm sure they could find something for 'hypothetical' Jae that didn't go pro.

From what I understand that is not allowed because Crowder had exceeded eligibility, Wally had not. I mean I love Crowder and I'm glad he went to MU, but Buzz went against what MU wanted / wants.

[Lennys Tap]

It does not bother me at all if he could not graduate in 2 years.  I don't care if it took him four years even though he could only play ball for two.  Doesn't bother me as long as he meets the NCAA regulations.

Agree 100%. Marquette's policy on this reeks of hypocrisy.

A one and done (and EVERYBODY at MU knew that was Ellenson's plan well before he was offered the opportunity to be a "student" athlete here) has to do just enough in his first semester (1.0, 12 hours?) to be eligible for semester #2. In semester #2 he doesn't even have to pretend to be a student and leaves school as soon as the season ends - 85-90% short of a degree. How this is more in line with our mission than helping a juco transfer get 90% of the way to the finish line on the school's dime totally escapes me. They can hide behind that "When we accepted him he had the "potential" to graduate in 4 years, but 'cmon. It's BS, and the administrative elites who push this stuff are full of it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Agree 100%. Marquette's policy on this reeks of hypocrisy.

A one and done (and EVERYBODY at MU knew that was Ellenson's plan well before he was offered the opportunity to be a "student" athlete here) has to do just enough in his first semester (1.0, 12 hours?) to be eligible for semester #2. In semester #2 he doesn't even have to pretend to be a student and leaves school as soon as the season ends - 85-90% short of a degree. How this is more in line with our mission than helping a juco transfer get 90% of the way to the finish line on the school's dime totally escapes me. They can hide behind that "When we accepted him he had the "potential" to graduate in 4 years, but 'cmon. It's BS, and the administrative elites who push this stuff are full of it.

Or Katin who completed one semester of grad school and high tailed it back to Cali to prep for his pro career.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Not even, only need 10 credits to be a full time student.

[Lennys Tap]

Or Katin who completed one semester of grad school and high tailed it back to Cali to prep for his pro career.

Yep, Doc - some "grad student", ai na?

[Lennys Tap]

Not even, only need 10 credits to be a full time student.

Wow - back in the day going under 12 hours bought you a ticket to Viet Nam.

[brewcity77]

I think the gripe should be as much, if not more, with the NCAA. Ellenson being "on track" even without intent to graduate doesn't hurt our APR and thus our ability to get into the NCAA Tournament to earn credits. Crowder, even if applying himself fully, was always going to negatively affect the APR.

Yes, it's a Marquette rule but it's also needed to remain compliant. Marquette will still take JUCO students, but JUCO basketball players need to be held to a different standard because of the additional scrutiny from the NCAA.

Get the NCAA to require players to simply maintain a GPA and take X number of credits and I'm sure that standard would relax. But as long as APR can jeopardize bids, this will likely be in place.

[GGGG]

Well said Brew.  Nothing hypocritical about it. You may not like the policy, and that's fine, but it isn't "hypocritical" when applied to the Henry v Jae recruitments. There is logic behind it.

[jsglow]

Not even, only need 10 credits to be a full time student.

Sure?  I really think it's 12 but I could be wrong.

[Lennys Tap]

I'll readily concede that the NCAA is hypocritical, too - thought that was a given. But in spite of hypocritical NCAA rules, did we ever miss the tournament because of our APR? Or was this just an excuse to change policy by our administration?

[brewcity77]

I'll readily concede that the NCAA is hypocritical, too - thought that was a given. But in spite of hypocritical NCAA rules, did we ever miss the tournament because of our APR? Or was this just an excuse to change policy by our administration?

We didn't, but the postseason APR bans were a new thing. We saw Connecticut, a team in our league for years, get an APR ban and we were trending in the wrong direction.

I know there were some donors that didn't like Buzz's JUCO recruiting from the start and didn't like the perceived stigma attached, but I think the decision made by administration was correct and based not only on stigma but on the good of the program.