MLB 2018 Season

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Glad the Saint weighed in on it.

I'm here for you.

Looking forward to more of your stupidity this week!

[brewcity77]

Are people really surprised a subject would get more traction here when it refers to the player for a Milwaukee-based team considering that pretty much everyone here either does or at one point did live in the vicinity of Milwaukee?

[wadesworld]

Are people really surprised a subject would get more traction here when it refers to the player for a Milwaukee-based team considering that pretty much everyone here either does or at one point did live in the vicinity of Milwaukee?

I would hope if you are outraged by what a teenager Tweeted 7 years ago as a high schooler and think they’re an awful racist homophobe today because of them and find the story so compelling that you need to give live Scoop updated you’d be outraged regardless of where the player plays.

[MerrittsMustache]

Are people really surprised a subject would get more traction here when it refers to the player for a Milwaukee-based team considering that pretty much everyone here either does or at one point did live in the vicinity of Milwaukee?

There are some on here who just like to have something to complain about...and when they can link that complaint to the Cubs and their fans, even better!

Turner's posts were dumb but pretty tame, all things considered. Newcomb called a lot of people f--s on twitter but neither posted anything about white power, the KKK or hating homosexuals. That said, they made stupid comments on social media and MLB should consider sending them to sensitivity training as well. I just hope their teams' fans learned from Milwaukee's mistake and don't give them standing O's next time out.

[MUBurrow]

Turner's posts were dumb but pretty tame, all things considered. Newcomb called a lot of people f--s on twitter but neither posted anything about white power, the KKK or hating homosexuals. That said, they made stupid comments on social media and MLB should consider sending them to sensitivity training as well. I just hope their teams' fans learned from Milwaukee's mistake and don't give them standing O's next time out.

All in all, MLB has done a pretty nice job with this. Valid arguments can certainly be made as to whether the punishments are severe enough, but the combination of its swift decision in the Hader case and having Billy Bean at the ready to work with players has really helped baseball avoid a PR cluster here.  If this were the NFL, the Commissioner would be handing out random, disjointed punishments, and every new tweet that is unearthed would cause the whole thing to start over from the beginning again.

[Babybluejeans]

There are some on here who just like to have something to complain about...and when they can link that complaint to the Cubs and their fans, even better!

Turner's posts were dumb but pretty tame, all things considered. Newcomb called a lot of people f--s on twitter but neither posted anything about white power, the KKK or hating homosexuals. That said, they made stupid comments on social media and MLB should consider sending them to sensitivity training as well. I just hope their teams' fans learned from Milwaukee's mistake and don't give them standing O's next time out.

What was that standing O about? I didn’t really follow it because I couldn’t care less about the Brewers (or the National League). But I saw the headline and it seemed weird.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What was that standing O about? I didn’t really follow it because I couldn’t care less about the Brewers (or the National League). But I saw the headline and it seemed weird.

Hader got a standing O from the fans at the beginning of his first appearance at Miller Park after the tweets came to light. Many have rightly pointed out that this sends a poor message. The reality is, no matter what team Hader played for, every fan base would have reacted in the exact same way.

[wadesworld]

I'm here for you.

Looking forward to more of your stupidity this week!

Ahh yes.  We figured out Mr. Perfect's teenage mistakes.  Choosing a school where stupid idiots like me can get the same degree he can.  Sad!

[wadesworld]

What was that standing O about? I didn’t really follow it because I couldn’t care less about the Brewers (or the National League). But I saw the headline and it seemed weird.

If you ask Cubs fans it was a bunch of racist white drunks applauding their own racist white drunk.

The reality is it was a fanbase supporting a star player who made a stupid mistake for something he did 7 years prior as a dumb high schooler that owned up to his stupidness and faced it head on.  Cubs fans will tell you there would be a chorus of boos if this was a Cubs player.  Any other sports fan in the world will tell you that maybe it shouldn't be this way, but the reaction would be the exact same from any other fanbase no matter where he plays.

[MerrittsMustache]

If you ask Cubs fans it was a bunch of racist white drunks applauding their own racist white drunk.

Where did any Cubs fan say anything close to this?

It was actually a national story and Brewers fans were largely ridiculed and rightly so. It was a bad look...but Brewers fans aren't the first or last fanbase to make themselves look foolish.

[TallTitan34]

Where's Tall Titan when you need him?

Sad that only when it's a Brewer do we hear about it on MUScoop.

 

Sorry, I didn't realize we had a huge Braves and Nats following here to make Newcomb and Turner relevant to this forum.

[TallTitan34]

Sean Newcomb in starts after a Braves loss this season: 12 GS, 8-1, 1.84 ERA

[TallTitan34]

So Braves fans, how do you think Kolby Allard is going to do in his debut tomorrow?  Sounds like his velocity has been dropping over the past few seasons, however, in that happening he has learned how to pitch.

[TallTitan34]

Freddie Freeman vs Chipper Jones after 1,400 plate appearances.

[wadesworld]

 

Sorry, I didn't realize we had a huge Braves and Nats following here to make Newcomb and Turner relevant to this forum.

Racism is only worth discussing if it is in Milwaukee.  Got it.

[TallTitan34]

In regards to Turner and Newcomb, they are just as stupid as Hader and being young shouldn't excuse their behavior either.   How did they not wipe their accounts after the Hader stuff came out?

I fully expect Atlanta to give Newcomb a standing O.

[wadesworld]

So, at age 17, it's fine for him to post racial slurs online but at age 22, it's not. Going back to my original question, how do we decide when a person reaches the point where the "young and dumb" excuse no longer flies? For you, it's apparently sometime between age 18 and 22. For me, I think that a 17yo should know better than to post wildly offensive comments online.


Ah, the old "it could have been worse" defense. So if you had a 17yo, you'd be OK with him/her posting those same things online? After all, it's just "juvenile ramblings." It's not like your kid killed someone, right?

Hader's team has absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact, this incident is part of a larger issue that's not specific to Hader. Kids do stupid things but simply being a kid doesn't make it acceptable to do those things. The kid in tower's story should absolutely be labeled for the rest of his life because he did something incredibly stupid to warrant that label. That's how it works. One awful mistake, whether you're 16 or 60, can have a hugely negative effect on the rest of your life. People need to recognize that.

I just have a hard time getting on-board with "young and dumb" being an out for awful behavior. Now...get off my lawn!


EDIT: Just to clarify. I don't think Hader should be punished by MLB or the Brewers. Sending him to Sensitivity Training is the right move and I truly hope he learns from it and that he has already changed and grown as a person. I just have a problem with people shrugging it off as if he did nothing wrong simply because he was 17.

There are some on here who just like to have something to complain about...and when they can link that complaint to the Cubs and their fans, even better!

Turner's posts were dumb but pretty tame, all things considered. Newcomb called a lot of people f--s on twitter but neither posted anything about white power, the KKK or hating homosexuals. That said, they made stupid comments on social media and MLB should consider sending them to sensitivity training as well. I just hope their teams' fans learned from Milwaukee's mistake and don't give them standing O's next time out.

Hmm. So the “it could’ve been worse” defense doesn’t work...unless it does work?

Differentiating between which racists Tweets were worse, a couple weeks after claiming that we shouldn’t differentiate between a teen Tweeting stupid stuff 6 years ago and an adult being a participating member of the KKK.

“Hader’s team has nothing to do with it.” Well, until it’s a Brave and a National and then we don’t discuss it because nobody cares about those teams, hey?

Classic.

[Babybluejeans]

Hader got a standing O from the fans at the beginning of his first appearance at Miller Park after the tweets came to light. Many have rightly pointed out that this sends a poor message. The reality is, no matter what team Hader played for, every fan base would have reacted in the exact same way.

Yea, I figured it was a statement of support after owning up and apologizing, and not some white supremacist stuff.

However, I don't agree that every fan base would have reacted the same way. A fan base whose demographic trends more toward the object of Hader's vitriol, while not likely to boo him, would also probably not be standing up and cheering the guy.

[JWags85]

Freddie Freeman vs Chipper Jones after 1,400 plate appearances.

I think Freddie Freeman is suffering from some Mike Trout effect, given how mediocre the Braves have been in his time.  Cause he's been fantastic, put up great numbers, as you show has been in lockstep with a Braves legend who came up at about the same age, but casual fans don't know him.

[🏀]

I think Freddie Freeman is suffering from some Mike Trout effect, given how mediocre the Braves have been in his time.  Cause he's been fantastic, put up great numbers, as you show has been in lockstep with a Braves legend who came up at about the same age, but casual fans don't know him.

Those Ks though... Crazy how their OBP still is very close despite that difference.

[MerrittsMustache]

Hmm. So the “it could’ve been worse” defense doesn’t work...unless it does work?

Differentiating between which racists Tweets were worse, a couple weeks after claiming that we shouldn’t differentiate between a teen Tweeting stupid stuff 6 years ago and an adult being a participating member of the KKK.

“Hader’s team has nothing to do with it.” Well, until it’s a Brave and a National and then we don’t discuss it because nobody cares about those teams, hey?

Classic.

Unlike many on here regarding Hader, I didn't use the "it could have been worse" defense to excuse Turner and Newcomb for their tweets. As I stated, both guys did something stupid and MLB should probably give them the same "punishment" as Hader. Just because Hader's tweets were more offensive, that doesn't make Turner and Newcomb's tweets acceptable.

Let's simplify this for you since you aren't getting it (or maybe since you refuse to acknowledge it). This board is more likely to discuss the Cubs and Brewers because most of us are either Cubs or Brewers fans. If a White Sox player was involved, that'd probably come up on here too. Tower is a Tigers fan (I believe) so I'm sure he'd be open for discussing an issue like this involving a Tigers player. If Hader was on the Orioles or Padres, I bet this topic either wouldn't have come up on here at all or it'd be a blip on the radar. You see how that works? There's also no one immediately coming to the defense of Turner or Newcomb stating that they were just "young and dumb" and prolonging the discussion. Additionally, most of us have already said our piece on the topic. It's not a complex concept for most people. Then again...you're not most people.

[mu03eng]

Bit of a long post warning.

I think Katie Nolan's take from her podcast last week was the right one. Long story short there are two key take aways:

When you compare what Hader has gone through to date with what the people who were the target of his vitrol have...Hader hasn't gone through anything yet so on it's surface a standing O doesn't make sense. I get the "he's on my team and he's had a tough week plus he did all the right things for 72 hours" viewpoint but it's a moment in time, let's all wait and see what he actually does going forward to help resolve some of this. Like it or not, he has an obligation now to raise awareness/find a way to improve this issue within his community, let's see how he follows through on this. If he spends the next 5 years trying to raise awareness in the community so some other arbitrary metric, we can give him a standing O.

The more important take away is how the standing O represents how much distance we still have to cover in getting people to understand those that are "different" than them. I assume there were at least one actual racist at the more joining the standing O because they support what Hader said, probably more, that's just reality. The vast majority of fans though are not overtly or actively racist, which is true of society as well. We can hang the mission accomplished banner because we've ended overt racism for the most part (before someone says "Charalottesville" that is an isolated incident and exceedingly rare) the majority assume we're done. Further, it is easier for the majority of that crowd to empathize with what Hader has gone through (both demographically and culturally) than it is for the majority to empathize with the target of Hader's tweets or recognize how their actions will be received by the communities he insulted. That lack of empathy is the next thing we have to go solve if we really want to make our communities a better place, we can't rest on "well I don't say or think racist things"

[MerrittsMustache]

I think Freddie Freeman is suffering from some Mike Trout effect, given how mediocre the Braves have been in his time.  Cause he's been fantastic, put up great numbers, as you show has been in lockstep with a Braves legend who came up at about the same age, but casual fans don't know him.

Freeman's Similarity Scores are littered with the name Eddie Murray. He was another stud 1B who never really reached that household name status*. He had a couple postseason appearances early in his career (winning the WS in 1983) but played on some bad/mediocre teams until his late 30's.

* - Admittedly, Eddie's surly demeanor and relationship with the media played a role in that as well.

[wadesworld]

Yea, I figured it was a statement of support after owning up and apologizing, and not some white supremacist stuff.

However, I don't agree that every fan base would have reacted the same way. A fan base whose demographic trends more toward the object of Hader's vitriol, while not likely to boo him, would also probably not be standing up and cheering the guy.

Any baseball team's fanbase is going to be fairly similar to that of Milwaukee's.  Baseball is not basketball or football.  Fanbases aren't a melting pot of diversity.

If it was a basketball arena you might have a point, but you don't see a ton of diversity walking around a baseball stadium no matter where you are.

[wadesworld]

Unlike many on here regarding Hader, I didn't use the "it could have been worse" defense to excuse Turner and Newcomb for their tweets. As I stated, both guys did something stupid and MLB should probably give them the same "punishment" as Hader. Just because Hader's tweets were more offensive, that doesn't make Turner and Newcomb's tweets acceptable.

Let's simplify this for you since you aren't getting it (or maybe since you refuse to acknowledge it). This board is more likely to discuss the Cubs and Brewers because most of us are either Cubs or Brewers fans. If a White Sox player was involved, that'd probably come up on here too. Tower is a Tigers fan (I believe) so I'm sure he'd be open for discussing an issue like this involving a Tigers player. If Hader was on the Orioles or Padres, I bet this topic either wouldn't have come up on here at all or it'd be a blip on the radar. You see how that works? There's also no one immediately coming to the defense of Turner or Newcomb stating that they were just "young and dumb" and prolonging the discussion. Additionally, most of us have already said our piece on the topic. It's not a complex concept for most people. Then again...you're not most people.

You literally said, "Hader's team has absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact, this incident is part of a larger issue that's not specific to Hader. Kids do stupid things but simply being a kid doesn't make it acceptable to do those things. The kid in tower's story should absolutely be labeled for the rest of his life because he did something incredibly stupid to warrant that label. That's how it works. One awful mistake, whether you're 16 or 60, can have a hugely negative effect on the rest of your life. People need to recognize that."

Now you're saying that Hader's team does have something to do with it, after saying, quite literally, "Hader's team has absolutely nothing to do with it."

So yeah, it does make it more complex when in one post you say one thing, and then in the next you say the complete opposite.  Literally nobody had said a word about "this subject" until I had brought it up.  Nobody immediately came to their defense for being "young and dumb" because the Cubs fans who were so distraught over Hader's 7 year old Tweets weren't screaming bloody murder over every new article that came out about it.  So I have no clue what you're talking about.  But hey, I'm not most people.  And thank God for that.