MLB 2018 Season

[🏀]

Mookie is the most exciting player in baseball.

[JWags85]

No, he is faster.  This is Mike Trout ignorance.  He is fairly routinely stat-casted over 20 MPH and has completely elite speed.  Basically since he was drafted he has had 70-80 grade speed. 

I dropped a word or two mid-thought.  Trout isn't as fast as he used to be, is what I'm saying.  And he hasn't been graded as a very good fielder in quite some time.  He's solid, but not exceptional.  His bat is unreal and he's a great baserunner, but he's not an elite defender anymore, objectively or by sabermetrics.

Everything you wrote about Baez, directly applies to Tim Anderson, should he be in the conversation?  No clearly not.  Moncada has elite tools all the way around, but he isn't nearly as exciting as some of the other guys right now because his game isn't complete.  It is insane that people are bored with Trout because he is too good.  He isn't exciting because we expect him to be amazing.  That says it all right there.  I also do wonder, as I did earlier, how much Mike Trout do most baseball fans see?  My guess is not much, and if you consider yourself a fan of the game, you should seek out watching him.  Your opinion of him being not exciting would change.  He does things on the baseball field that no one else does, and he does them every week.

Baez is the best in baseball at two things, applying tags and sliding.  Both are critical components of bang bang plays, often in decisive moments, and are exciting components of games.  I think thats where much of it comes from.  And the difference between Baez and Tim Anderson is that Baez is a much better player across the board. Same with Moncada.  Its one thing to be the same type of player, its another to be the best 1-2 of that type of player.

Nobody has ever said Mike Trout is boring.  But again, mentioning exciting vs best, part of the exciting is being in big moments where plays matter and Trout is again on a team thats 9 games out of the playoff race.  And thats not his fault, but some of the insane hitting he does doesn't feel as exhilarating when its to bring his team to within 3 runs in a game they still lose.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

That is a key word that has not been used in this conversation previously.

Mookie Betts, Jose Altuve, Francisco Lindor, Trea Turner, Ozzie Albies, Paul Goldschmidt, Juan Soto are all guys that belong in there, and heck, how everyone is setting up Baez as the most exciting, he doesn't hold a candle to Yasiel Puig in those categories.   

Baez doesn't hold a candle to Puig?  Please...

Tonight was another prime example of why Baez is one of the most exciting players in the game.

[TallTitan34]

From Jesse Rogers?  Javy may as well have written it himself.  Have you watched any exciting non Cub players this season?  Angels games?  Rockie games?  Indians games?  Just curious.  You may enjoy watching Trout, Arenado, Ramirez among others.

Sorry. Since that one was too biased for your liking, about this one from USA Today on how Javy is exactly what baseball needs? 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/07/12/javier-baez-flair-all-star-game/780599002/

Trout and Arenado are much better players than Javy. Hell, Trout is on his way to be the greatest of all time. But they aren’t nearly as exciting as Javy.

Mike Trout is generally considered a pretty boring guy, which is a shame because a lot of people don’t realize how great he actually is.

[TallTitan34]

Mookie is the most exciting player in baseball.

This is a good call.  Mookie is damn exciting and a great player.

[#UnleashSean]

Jesus this is a hell of a conversation about who is exciting to watch and who isn't.

[buckchuckler]

Baez doesn't hold a candle to Puig?  Please...

Tonight was another prime example of why Baez is one of the most exciting players in the game.

Maybe not quite the wrong wording, but when you aren't sure if the guy is gonna play like an All Star or not show up to the park or maybe even be escorted by a cartel, well, that's pretty exciting. 

https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/bryce-harper-yasiel-puig-los-angeles-dodgers-most-exciting-player-baseball-mike-trout-051116

https://www.mlb.com/news/dodgers-yasiel-puig-shows-fun-side-in-game-1/c-257765932

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-mlb-exciting-players-20140715-story.html

And here is a result from about 10 seconds of google that make the same arguments for Puig that have been made for Baez. 

[buckchuckler]

This is a good call.  Mookie is damn exciting and a great player.

Yet, the previous 2 times I mentioned him in this conversation, it was just standard shade throwing. 

[buckchuckler]

Baez is the best in baseball at two things, applying tags and sliding.  Both are critical components of bang bang plays, often in decisive moments, and are exciting components of games.  I think thats where much of it comes from.  And the difference between Baez and Tim Anderson is that Baez is a much better player across the board. Same with Moncada.  Its one thing to be the same type of player, its another to be the best 1-2 of that type of player.

Nobody has ever said Mike Trout is boring.  But again, mentioning exciting vs best, part of the exciting is being in big moments where plays matter and Trout is again on a team thats 9 games out of the playoff race.  And thats not his fault, but some of the insane hitting he does doesn't feel as exhilarating when its to bring his team to within 3 runs in a game they still lose.

First, especially the sliding part, but really both, on what is this based?  One slide a couple weeks ago?  Dee Gordon did that same slide to the Sox twice in a game.   It isn't a magic trick.  A bunch of guys can, and do execute that style of slide. 
But even if that point is granted, I think a guy hitting HRs, 2Bs, swiping bags, playing defense are all more exciting.  I think watching a great hitter or defender is more exciting that watching a great tagger. 

But that isn't even my main issue.  As I said earlier, Baez is certainly an exciting player.  But to make the blanket statement that he is the most exciting player is ridiculous.  Maybe for you he is, that doesn't mean he is for everyone.  I'd prefer Trout.  Others here clearly don't.  I'd prefer Mookie, Lindor, Ramirez, Arenado, Machado (more when he was at 3B though, and honestly haven't watched much of him this year because the O's are worse to watch than the Sox), Altuve, Correa, Turner, Soto and a bunch of other guys, and it isn't just because I hate the Cubs.  I like their games better.  But to each their own.  I know you all love you guy, and hats off to you for that.

And as for the second bolded part, I think you are confusing better player with more exciting, or some nonsense like that.

Ok, obviously I don't think Anderson or Moncada (I did state that in my post where I referenced them) are on the same level, but if the talent gap is an argument against Trout, why shouldn't it work against Baez in the same capacity?

[TallTitan34]

First, especially the sliding part, but really both, on what is this based?  One slide a couple weeks ago? 

Hahaha if you think this is based on a single slide, it’s shows you know nothing of Javy.

https://youtu.be/ICPD8QG6M1c

This video doesn’t even have the last two months of incredible slides he’s made.

EDIT:  Here’s a good tag video too while we’re at it:

https://youtu.be/-Uiq2ORGqoc

[TallTitan34]

Breaking News: Mike Matheny Fired

[Jockey]

Breaking News: Mike Matheny Fired

Only surprised it didn't happen sooner.

[TallTitan34]

Sadly this makes the Cardinals better.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

First, especially the sliding part, but really both, on what is this based?  One slide a couple weeks ago?  Dee Gordon did that same slide to the Sox twice in a game.   It isn't a magic trick.  A bunch of guys can, and do execute that style of slide. 
But even if that point is granted, I think a guy hitting HRs, 2Bs, swiping bags, playing defense are all more exciting.  I think watching a great hitter or defender is more exciting that watching a great tagger. 

But that isn't even my main issue.  As I said earlier, Baez is certainly an exciting player.  But to make the blanket statement that he is the most exciting player is ridiculous.  Maybe for you he is, that doesn't mean he is for everyone.  I'd prefer Trout.  Others here clearly don't.  I'd prefer Mookie, Lindor, Ramirez, Arenado, Machado (more when he was at 3B though, and honestly haven't watched much of him this year because the O's are worse to watch than the Sox), Altuve, Correa, Turner, Soto and a bunch of other guys, and it isn't just because I hate the Cubs.  I like their games better.  But to each their own.  I know you all love you guy, and hats off to you for that.

And as for the second bolded part, I think you are confusing better player with more exciting, or some nonsense like that.

Ok, obviously I don't think Anderson or Moncada (I did state that in my post where I referenced them) are on the same level, but if the talent gap is an argument against Trout, why shouldn't it work against Baez in the same capacity?

Hilarious.

[TallTitan34]

Javier Báez is the 3rd player since the first All-Star Game in 1933 to have at least 19 HR, 71 RBI and 18 SB prior to the break.The other two are César Cedeño in 1974 and Dante Bichette in 1994.

[TallTitan34]

I think watching a great hitter or defender is more exciting that watching a great tagger. 

You know Javy is considered an elite defender?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

You know Javy is considered an elite defender?

I give him some credit for a solid effort pretending he's not biased.

[buckchuckler]

Hilarious.

You ever figure out what double top secret information the Cubs had on Jake Arrieta?

[buckchuckler]

You know Javy is considered an elite defender?

By fangraphs he is negative in DRS at both short and 3B.  Above at 2B.  UZR negative at 2B and SS.  .5 dWAR by BBR.

By the numbers he looks like a good defender at 2B, and about avg at SS and 3B.

Not exactly Betts, Arenado, Lindor...

Maybe this is another area where he is more exciting than good.

But really,  I am not the biggest fan of defensive stats and I haven't watched him much, so maybe I --and the numbers --am wrong.

[buckchuckler]

Javier Báez is the 3rd player since the first All-Star Game in 1933 to have at least 19 HR, 71 RBI and 18 SB prior to the break.The other two are César Cedeño in 1974 and Dante Bichette in 1994.

A veritable who's who of baseball lore.   

Quite impressive.

[MU82]

Javier Báez is the 3rd player since the first All-Star Game in 1933 to have at least 19 HR, 71 RBI and 18 SB prior to the break.The other two are César Cedeño in 1974 and Dante Bichette in 1994.

These are the most hilarious kinds of "stats."

It's bad enough when they are semi-round numbers: So-and-so is the first player with 325 HR, 2,400 RBI and 250 SB since such-and-such.

But 19-71-18? Really?

And the effort to declare Baez the best slider and tagger of all-time ... that's great stuff. Reminds me of after the Cubbies got Maddux in 2004, fans weren't satisfied saying the Cubbies had the best pitching staff in the majors; they also claimed the starting five gave them the best hitting pitching staff in the majors. One thing that came true is that they were the best choking pitching staff in the majors the last week of the season. Maddux, in particular, spit the bit.

Baez is a nice player, the Cubs are fortunate to have him and most teams wish they had him. The rest of it is silliness.

Anybody can play with stats and make a case for or against just about anybody.

[wadesworld]

These are the most hilarious kinds of "stats."

It's bad enough when they are semi-round numbers: So-and-so is the first player with 325 HR, 2,400 RBI and 250 SB since such-and-such.

But 19-71-18? Really?

And the effort to declare Baez the best slider and tagger of all-time ... that's great stuff. Reminds me of after the Cubbies got Maddux in 2004, fans weren't satisfied saying the Cubbies had the best pitching staff in the majors; they also claimed the starting five gave them the best hitting pitching staff in the majors. One thing that came true is that they were the best choking pitching staff in the majors the last week of the season. Maddux, in particular, spit the bit.

Baez is a nice player, the Cubs are fortunate to have him and most teams wish they had him. The rest of it is silliness.

Anybody can play with stats and make a case for or against just about anybody.

I’ll save Cubs fans the time:

You’re biased and don’t understand baseball.

Nobody in the history of the world is as good at what they do as Javy Baez is at playing baseball.

Best tagger, best slider, and is at 19-71-18.

Case closed. Can’t argue it.

[Lennys Tap]

Javier Báez is the 3rd player since the first All-Star Game in 1933 to have at least 19 HR, 71 RBI and 18 SB prior to the break.The other two are César Cedeño in 1974 and Dante Bichette in 1994.

I don't think anyone would dispute that he can hold his own with Cesar Cedeno or Dante Bichette.

[JWags85]

And the effort to declare Baez the best slider and tagger of all-time ... that's great stuff. Reminds me of after the Cubbies got Maddux in 2004, fans weren't satisfied saying the Cubbies had the best pitching staff in the majors; they also claimed the starting five gave them the best hitting pitching staff in the majors. One thing that came true is that they were the best choking pitching staff in the majors the last week of the season. Maddux, in particular, spit the bit.

Come on 82, nobody ever said anything about all time.  Its a discussion about players in MLB in 2018, and the commentary about his sliding/tagging ability isn't just a silly idea created by Cubs homers on Scoop.

Countering opinions are fine, but continuing to make this seem like some silly delusion because LOL CUBS FANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN UNREALISTIC is trite.  But yes, that stat is dumb. Baez is having a great year, no need for idiotic stats churned out from the ESPN content machine.

Oh good, was wondering when noted baseball arbiter Wades would pop back in to tell us how stupid we are.

[MUBBau]

Aguilar makes barehanded catches and hits walk off home runs on the 13th pitch of an at bat...and probably is the best player at something too!