MLB 2018 Season

[Vander Blue Man Group]

you mean to tell me joe maddon was so indifferent about an entirely different play than the one where his player slid into the back of the catcher's leg while the catcher was completely exposed and completely blind to the slide that was coming towards him after the catcher had moved away from home plate specifically to avoid any kind of collision that joe didn't even bother to challenge a non-challengeable play?!  well golly gee, obviously we were all wrong, joe didn't give a damn so much that he gave up the chance of getting an extra out in a one run game just to prove a point!

you can't make this crap up.  chicago sports fans are the best.

This is incredibly stupid.  The Musgrove "slide" was extremely dangerous.  Did you see it?

https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-pirates-clear-benches-after-hard-slide/c-279047034

[Its DJOver]

This is incredibly stupid.  The Musgrove "slide" was extremely dangerous.  Did you see it?

This is being blown out of proportion.  Both slides were studs down so there was no attempt to injure, both were bad slides, but you also have to look at players involved.  That was Musgrove's second career time running the bases (not nearly as much experience breaking us double plays as Rizzo) and he apologized right away.  Rizzo has had other occasions where he has had a slide deemed potentially dangerous so there was always going to be more scrutiny involving him.  Maddon's constant whining certainly did not help the situation.

[TallTitan34]

That was Musgrove's second career time running the bases (not nearly as much experience breaking us double plays as Rizzo) and he apologized right away.

This quote from Musgrove goes against everything you said.  He knew exactly what he was doing and he didn't apologize.

"I wasn't trying to hurt [Baez] by any means, but I was trying to go in hard like their guy did, so he should've got out of the way, I guess."

[Vander Blue Man Group]

This is being blown out of proportion.  Both slides were studs down so there was no attempt to injure, both were bad slides, but you also have to look at players involved.  That was Musgrove's second career time running the bases (not nearly as much experience breaking us double plays as Rizzo) and he apologized right away.  Rizzo has had other occasions where he has had a slide deemed potentially dangerous so there was always going to be more scrutiny involving him.  Maddon's constant whining certainly did not help the situation.

Maddon didn't whine about the Musgrove slide.  He was laughing in the aftermath. 

As you said, Musgrove probably doesn't have a lot of experience running the bases and I don't think there was any intent to injure there.  At the same time it certainly was a dangerous slide and if the throw had come in later that could have been a serious injury for Baez.  Musgrove came in high, hard, and late and had no chance whatsoever to stay on the base. 

[Its DJOver]

Maddon didn't whine about the Musgrove slide.  He was laughing in the aftermath. 

As you said, Musgrove probably doesn't have a lot of experience running the bases and I don't think there was any intent to injure there.  At the same time it certainly was a dangerous slide and if the throw had come in later that could have been a serious injury for Baez.  Musgrove came in high, hard, and late and had no chance whatsoever to stay on the base.

Agree that both slides were bad.

My whole thing with Maddon is his whole "I used to play so I know the rules better than you" shtick he has.  The whole thing after the Diaz play where he said that catchers used to get hit harder and need to have an internal clock similar to a QB because of that is stupid.  Diaz clearly did enough to move out of the way  and avoid Rizzo.  Baseball isn't played the same way it was when he was playing.  It's constantly changing, now faster than ever.

[Its DJOver]

This quote from Musgrove goes against everything you said.  He knew exactly what he was doing and he didn't apologize.

"I wasn't trying to hurt [Baez] by any means, but I was trying to go in hard like their guy did, so he should've got out of the way, I guess."

This quote from Baez goes against everything you said. He did in fact apologize

"I asked him 'what was that about' he said sorry, conversation was over."
Baez even continues that the whole thing was blown out of proportion.  "everybody came out because they had too"

And how does the fact that he said he was trying to break up the DP go against the fact that it was his second career time running the bases.

[Jockey]

Did you see actually see the play in question?

Nope. I was speaking generally. I have seen guys slur too late/hard and end up sliding past the base many, many times. Sometimes they get tagged out; sometimes they get back in time.

But it's not illegal to slide past the base.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Agree that both slides were bad.

My whole thing with Maddon is his whole "I used to play so I know the rules better than you" shtick he has.  The whole thing after the Diaz play where he said that catchers used to get hit harder and need to have an internal clock similar to a QB because of that is stupid.  Diaz clearly did enough to move out of the way  and avoid Rizzo.  Baseball isn't played the same way it was when he was playing.  It's constantly changing, now faster than ever.

Maddon hates the slide interference rules. Period.  He thinks it's stupid to have to rely on an upmire's judgment on intent on a bang-bang play. 

Let's take the Rizzo play which I agree with Torre after watching in slo-mo.  Rizzo slid toward and covered the plate with his slide. The umps and the reviewers agreed.  The problem was Rizzo hooking the catcher. 

The rule is now becoming the NFL catch ruling where you have to be a lawyer to determine the outcome.  Maddon hates the process and always will get ejected over it to make his statement known. 

[TallTitan34]

This quote from Baez goes against everything you said. He did in fact apologize

"I asked him 'what was that about' he said sorry, conversation was over."
Baez even continues that the whole thing was blown out of proportion.  "everybody came out because they had too"

And how does the fact that he said he was trying to break up the DP go against the fact that it was his second career time running the bases.

You are making it sound like because it was his second time on the bases he didn't know what he was doing.  He flat out said he went in hard on purpose. 

You can't vilify Rizzo and then defend Musgrove.   

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Nope. I was speaking generally. I have seen guys slur too late/hard and end up sliding past the base many, many times. Sometimes they get tagged out; sometimes they get back in time.

But it's not illegal to slide past the base.

According to the rule, if Baez would have attempted a throw in that instance, they would have gotten the double play because of the slide and him going past the base. 

[TallTitan34]

But it's not illegal to slide past the base.

It is illegal to slide past the base if you make no effort to stay on it.   It's part 3 of the rule you quoted.

Musgrove made no effort to stay on the bag.

[#UnleashSean]

Rizzos slide was clearly to break up the double play. Was probably actually illegal as well.

But can someone please tell me what the Sam hell is this argument about it being his second time on the basepath? What did he forget how to slide after playing in 9000 other games before his job career? What a dumb argument

[Its DJOver]

You are making it sound like because it was his second time on the bases he didn't know what he was doing.  He flat out said he went in hard on purpose. 

You can't vilify Rizzo and then defend Musgrove.

Please re-read my posts, I said both slides were bad.

My first post that you said was flat out wrong had two points. 1.) That Musgrove has far less experience running the bases than Rizzo does.  This is an indisputable fact.  2.) That Musgrove apologized, which Baez said he did.  Both points are true so I'm not sure where you are taking exception?

[Its DJOver]

Rizzos slide was clearly to break up the double play. Was probably actually illegal as well.

But can someone please tell me what the Sam hell is this argument about it being his second time on the basepath? What did he forget how to slide after playing in 9000 other games before his job career? What a dumb argument

He came up through an AL system so I'm not sure where you're getting 9000 from.  The point is when you are in a position to do something everyday (Rizzo gets on base a lot so he has a lot of potential opportunities to break up DP's) you're going to be a lot better at it than someone who hasn't done it in 7 years (Musgrove drafted into an Al system in 2011).

[buckchuckler]

This is incredibly stupid.  The Musgrove "slide" was extremely dangerous.  Did you see it?

https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-pirates-clear-benches-after-hard-slide/c-279047034

Putting slide in quotes and calling this one dangerous while saying Rizzo's was just fine and dandy is ridiculous. 

The Pirates were clearly responding to what Rizzo did and maybe even in some way how Maddon handled it (blaming Diaz...).  You didn't have to be a prophet to see this coming.

This, in some degree, in also on the umpires.  If they could have handled the first play, which seemed obvious to me, it would have probably prevented this whole escalation.  Though, maybe not.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Putting slide in quotes and calling this one dangerous while saying Rizzo's was just fine and dandy is ridiculous. 

The Pirates were clearly responding to what Rizzo did and maybe even in some way how Maddon handled it (blaming Diaz...).  You didn't have to be a prophet to see this coming.

This, in some degree, in also on the umpires.  If they could have handled the first play, which seemed obvious to me, it would have probably prevented this whole escalation.  Though, maybe not.

I didn't say Rizzo's slide was "fine and dandy" after considering it more.  I said it wasn't dirty.  Those are two different things. 

Clint Hurdle is a complete turd so the Pirates' response was not unexpected. 

[buckchuckler]

I didn't say Rizzo's slide was "fine and dandy" after considering it more.  I said it wasn't dirty.  Those are two different things. 

Clint Hurdle is a complete turd so the Pirates' response was not unexpected.

Not sure you ever said, or implied that it wasn't.  You called comments about it ridiculous or some such.

If you did, sorry I must have missed it.

And yeah, its a Clint Hurdle issue...

[MerrittsMustache]

Neither slide was dirty. Both were simply players trying to prevent a double play, which they both did.

Nothing to see here.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Not sure you ever said, or implied that it wasn't.  You called comments about it ridiculous or some such.

If you did, sorry I must have missed it.

And yeah, its a Clint Hurdle issue...

The Pirates have a history will retaliation, especially throwing at people, under Hurdle.  So how is that not reflective of him?

[withoutbias]

This is incredibly stupid.  The Musgrove "slide" was extremely dangerous.  Did you see it?

https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-pirates-clear-benches-after-hard-slide/c-279047034

totally agree.  a chicago sports fan decided to try to make the point that his team was so much bigger than the panzies elsewhere that his manager refused to challenge a play that would've netted him a second out in the inning and taken a baserunner off of first base in a one run game.  what a theory.  totally goes to show everyone here!

oh wait, the play wasn't even reviewable.  LOL!

incredibly stupid indeed.  but totally par for the course for cubs fans.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

totally agree.  a chicago sports fan decided to try to make the point that his team was so much bigger than the panzies elsewhere that his manager refused to challenge a play that would've netted him a second out in the inning and taken a baserunner off of first base in a one run game.  what a theory.  totally goes to show everyone here!

oh wait, the play wasn't even reviewable.  LOL!

incredibly stupid indeed.  but totally par for the course for cubs fans.

Hey dummy - it was a crew chief review so Maddon didn't need to challenge.

[withoutbias]

Hey dummy - it was a crew chief review so Maddon didn't need to challenge.

hey dummy - the play was never reviewed because it is quite literally not a reviewable play.  this isn't that hard to understand, i really don't get how dumb chicago sports fans get when they go out of their way to try and defend their team, when in reality nothing needed to be defended.

rizzo made a hard dirty slide that the mlb admitted they ruled incorrectly.  musgrove made a hard slide in return but at least the fielder could see it coming.  the umps had the ability to review one of the plays and didn't have the ability to review the other.

you don't have to go out of your way to make up stupid arguments to make your team look "tougher" than they are.  maddon didn't challenge the play not because he wanted to make a point that, "hey, our guy did nothing wrong, just hard baseball, and we have no issue with other teams playing hard too!" like tt claims.  maddon didn't challenge the play because he literally could not challenge the play.

this stuff is hysterical!

[TallTitan34]

hey dummy - the play was never reviewed because it is quite literally not a reviewable play.  this isn't that hard to understand, i really don't get how dumb chicago sports fans get when they go out of their way to try and defend their team, when in reality nothing needed to be defended.

rizzo made a hard dirty slide that the mlb admitted they ruled incorrectly.  musgrove made a hard slide in return but at least the fielder could see it coming.  the umps had the ability to review one of the plays and didn't have the ability to review the other.

you don't have to go out of your way to make up stupid arguments to make your team look "tougher" than they are.  maddon didn't challenge the play not because he wanted to make a point that, "hey, our guy did nothing wrong, just hard baseball, and we have no issue with other teams playing hard too!" like tt claims.  maddon didn't challenge the play because he literally could not challenge the play.

this stuff is hysterical!

For the record the reason he couldn’t challenge play was because a throw wasn’t attempted. This explaination was given to the media after my initial post.

Are you saying before the play occurred, you knew it couldn’t be challenged because no throw was made?  If so you are more knowledgeable than the umps on the field who had to check with New York, the broadcasters for both teams, and the coaching staffs.   

[withoutbias]

For the record the reason he couldn’t challenge play was because a throw wasn’t attempted. This explaination was given to the media after my initial post.

Are you saying before the play occurred, you knew it couldn’t be challenged because no throw was made?  If so you are more knowledgeable than the umps on the field who had to check with New York, the broadcasters for both teams, and the coaching staffs.

"the explanation was given to the media after my initial post?"  what?  the explanation was given during the broadcast as this played out.

but what you're now saying is that joe wanted to challenge but was told he couldn't?  so i guess your narrative that joe not challenging proved he would've had no problem with rizzo's slide if he was in the other dugout goes out the window?

hmmm...

[TallTitan34]

The explaination was not given as this played out. It was given after the umpires checked with New York and the decision was relayed to the media booths.

I posted before it was relayed.

No, what I am saying is even if Joe could have challeneged he wouldn’t have. Which I disagree with because it would have hurt his team not to challenge.