Is foreign disinformation a threat?

[jesmu84]

Article in today's WSJ backing you up on this Banny.

Man. The moral equivalency here is so rich. Social media memes vs foreign interference in a US election.

So rich

[Benny B]

What did I say that is misinformation or a myth?

I bolded it for your convenience. The "porn" (i.e. adult entertainment) industry is highly regulated and does not condone slavery, trafficking and child sex rings. 

To be clear, Subway Jared is not part of the adult entertainment industry.  Craigslist escorts are not part of the adult entertainment industry.  Trafficked Thai hookers are not part of the adult entertainment industry.  You don't have to agree with what these people do, but that doesn't justify painting everyone who takes their clothes off for the enjoyment of others with the same brush.

[brewcity77]

I bolded it for your convenience. The "porn" (i.e. adult entertainment) industry is highly regulated and does not condone slavery, trafficking and child sex rings.

There is a legitimate, responsible, and regulated porn industry that handles things professionally and allows honesty in the industry. But that is not the entirety of the porn that's out there, especially when it comes to the free domains.

[forgetful]

There is a legitimate, responsible, and regulated porn industry that handles things professionally and allows honesty in the industry. But that is not the entirety of the porn that's out there, especially when it comes to the free domains.

But, saying what TAMU said, is like saying the pharmaceutical industry promotes gun violence, weapons trafficking, gangs etc., because of the illegal drug trade. 

Although both groups sell drugs, saying your local meth dealer is part of the pharmaceutical industry, and hence the pharmaceutical industry promotes all these negatives, is just not accurate. 

People don't make that criticism of pharma; but they do for the legitimate well regulated porn industry.  Largely because of societal norms and the myth that the two industries are one and the same.

[brewcity77]

But, saying what TAMU said, is like saying the pharmaceutical industry promotes gun violence, weapons trafficking, gangs etc., because of the illegal drug trade. 

Although both groups sell drugs, saying your local meth dealer is part of the pharmaceutical industry, and hence the pharmaceutical industry promotes all these negatives, is just not accurate. 

People don't make that criticism of pharma; but they do for the legitimate well regulated porn industry.  Largely because of societal norms and the myth that the two industries are one and the same.

First, let's go back to his post, as Benny quoted it:

I'm not wading into the rest of your post because there's a lot of misinformation and myths. But on the bolded, as much as people publicly say they want to get rid of porn, very few actually mean it. Its a multi-trillion dollar business with thousands of human right violations and unfair labor practices that directly funds modern day slavery, human trafficking, and child sex rings. Despite all this, a vast majority of American men and a significant population of American women watch it regularly, but in secret.

I don't see anything there that is controversial. Porn is a multi-trillion dollar business with all the violations he mentioned. Yes, there is a legitimate industry, but the proliferation of pornography on the internet has led to all the issues he outlined. He could've gone into more detail, I suppose, but there's nothing there that's inaccurate or even misleading.

And comparing it to Big Pharma...that's dicey. Working in a healthcare field, I absolutely hold Big Pharma to blame for the street drug problems we have today and feel that the heroin epidemic is largely a result of actions deliberately taken by the pharmaceutical industry. They created this dependency issue and they don't get a pass on the crime that is part of the fallout of their actions.

I would love to see figures on the consumption of porn in our society to see what percentages come from the legitimate, well-regulated portion of the industry. I would be surprised if it is even close to 50%.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I bolded it for your convenience. The "porn" (i.e. adult entertainment) industry is highly regulated and does not condone slavery, trafficking and child sex rings. 

To be clear, Subway Jared is not part of the adult entertainment industry.  Craigslist escorts are not part of the adult entertainment industry.  Trafficked Thai hookers are not part of the adult entertainment industry.  You don't have to agree with what these people do, but that doesn't justify painting everyone who takes their clothes off for the enjoyment of others with the same brush.

I didn't say the adult entertainment industry. I said the porn industry. Adult entertainment in the sense that you are thinking of is just one small piece of the pornographic puzzle. If you think all the videos on pornhub.com come from the "highly regulated adult entertainment industry" you are very mistaken. Many of the women (and some of the men) in those videos are victims of human trafficking. And while they claim to moderate the ages of the people in the videos, they don't, not really. They do enough to make sure they are not liable if it turns someone in the video is underage but not enough to prevent it. Teen is the most common search term on pornhub. They know what their audience wants.

Pornhub.com gets 64 million viewers a day. And that's just one site. There are hundreds of sites just like it. Unless you avoid sites like these and stick exclusively to "brand name" porn, you are directly funding human trafficking, modern day slavery, and child sex rings. Even sticking exclusively to "brand name" porn only limits the damage, it doesn't stop it. Porn stars are usually  represented by "agents" or "talent managers." Some of these might be legit, others are pimps who use rape, drugs, and physical violence to control their "talent." The "brand name" studio might be highly regulated but there is little to no regulation of these "talent managers" which the studio regularly works with.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

But, saying what TAMU said, is like saying the pharmaceutical industry promotes gun violence, weapons trafficking, gangs etc., because of the illegal drug trade. 

Although both groups sell drugs, saying your local meth dealer is part of the pharmaceutical industry, and hence the pharmaceutical industry promotes all these negatives, is just not accurate. 

People don't make that criticism of pharma; but they do for the legitimate well regulated porn industry.  Largely because of societal norms and the myth that the two industries are one and the same.

Not close to the same thing. Pornhub (or youporn, or youjizz...insert your favorite free porn site here) is 100% legal in the USA. Many of the videos on pornhub feature victims of human trafficking and underage boys and girls. Clicks and views is the currency of these site. People may not realize it, but they are paying to see videos of human trafficking victims and underage boys and girls. It is a much more direct link than "big pharma supports gangs"

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Didn't anticipate a porn thread on scoop.

[Pakuni]

I think foreign influence is BAU and been going on for thousands of years.  Pick your time period, pick your empire.  We do it, they do it.  Do you think it is a great problem when we do it?

I love that Chico's has stooped so low that he's drawing moral equivalencies between Voice of America and a tyrannical, hostile government trying influence our free elections and foment racial hostility within our borders.
Have you left no sense of decency, sir?

[MU82]

Is foreign disinformation a threat? Not as much as domestic disinformation!

I highly recommend this past Sunday's John Oliver show for anybody who hasn't seen it.

[forgetful]

First, let's go back to his post, as Benny quoted it:

I don't see anything there that is controversial. Porn is a multi-trillion dollar business with all the violations he mentioned. Yes, there is a legitimate industry, but the proliferation of pornography on the internet has led to all the issues he outlined. He could've gone into more detail, I suppose, but there's nothing there that's inaccurate or even misleading.

And comparing it to Big Pharma...that's dicey. Working in a healthcare field, I absolutely hold Big Pharma to blame for the street drug problems we have today and feel that the heroin epidemic is largely a result of actions deliberately taken by the pharmaceutical industry. They created this dependency issue and they don't get a pass on the crime that is part of the fallout of their actions.

I would love to see figures on the consumption of porn in our society to see what percentages come from the legitimate, well-regulated portion of the industry. I would be surprised if it is even close to 50%.

You are correct sir.  My statement was misrepresenting his statement (which was accurate).  My apologies to the gentleman from College Station.

[Benny B]

I didn't say the adult entertainment industry. I said the porn industry. Adult entertainment in the sense that you are thinking of is just one small piece of the pornographic puzzle. If you think all the videos on pornhub.com come from the "highly regulated adult entertainment industry" you are very mistaken. Many of the women (and some of the men) in those videos are victims of human trafficking. And while they claim to moderate the ages of the people in the videos, they don't, not really. They do enough to make sure they are not liable if it turns someone in the video is underage but not enough to prevent it. Teen is the most common search term on pornhub. They know what their audience wants.

Pornhub.com gets 64 million viewers a day. And that's just one site. There are hundreds of sites just like it. Unless you avoid sites like these and stick exclusively to "brand name" porn, you are directly funding human trafficking, modern day slavery, and child sex rings. Even sticking exclusively to "brand name" porn only limits the damage, it doesn't stop it. Porn stars are usually  represented by "agents" or "talent managers." Some of these might be legit, others are pimps who use rape, drugs, and physical violence to control their "talent." The "brand name" studio might be highly regulated but there is little to no regulation of these "talent managers" which the studio regularly works with.

As you’re defining it, there’s no such thing as the “porn industry” just as there’s no such thing as the “drug industry” as in forgetful’s hypothetical.  I understand what you’re trying to say, but to my original point, you’re painting a lot of different people with one broad brush stroke... which at it’s very core, is pretty much misinformation and/or promotion of a myth, at best.  I’m certainly not discounting the original point you were trying to make, but as Brew will probably attest, fighting fire with fire is a sh/tty way to win the day.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

As you’re defining it, there’s no such thing as the “porn industry” just as there’s no such thing as the “drug industry” as in forgetful’s hypothetical.  I understand what you’re trying to say, but to my original point, you’re painting a lot of different people with one broad brush stroke... which at it’s very core, is pretty much misinformation and/or promotion of a myth, at best.  I’m certainly not discounting the original point you were trying to make, but as Brew will probably attest, fighting fire with fire is a sh/tty way to win the day.

Allow me to simplify it. Watching porn at sites such as youporn, pornhub, youjizz, xvideo, etc...which is the vast majority of the porn industry in today's world, directly funds human trafficking, modern day slavery, and child sex rings.

[jesmu84]

Apparently, yes, it is a threat. And illegal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/16/politics/mueller-russia-indictments-election-interference/index.html

[tower912]

Not a surprise.  Still collecting the little fish.  Big fish and ultimately a constitutional crisis still to come.

[GGGG]

Not a surprise.  Still collecting the little fish.  Big fish and ultimately a constitutional crisis still to come.

I don't think so.  They may grab some low level guys, but IMO what Mueller has done is point the finger specifically at Russia to avoid a constitutional crisis.

[tower912]

We'll see.   Going to sit back and watch.

[jesmu84]

And this. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/now-available-more-200-000-deleted-russian-troll-tweets-n844731?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Note, I believe Facebook does this as well. Probably other social media accounts.

[muwarrior69]

The Russians and the Chinese know our achilles heel. The Democrats and Republicans will do anything to put party above country. Half the the country thinks Trump is Putin's puppet and the other half believes the rule of law applies to anyone who is not a high ranking Democrat. I have seen the enemy and it is us.

[GooooMarquette]

I don't think so.  They may grab some low level guys, but IMO what Mueller has done is point the finger specifically at Russia to avoid a constitutional crisis.

People on both sides of the aisle who know Bob Mueller have been adamant that he will go where the evidence takes him. So if the evidence takes him to a place that could lead to a constitutional crisis, I suspect that is where we will go.

[Jockey]

It feeds confirmation biases on both sides. The reason it's so dangerous is because outlets like Facebook have created an algorithm specifically designed to feed us this kind of propaganda. Figure out which kind of BS the individual goes for and social media delivers it to them en masse.

You are correct, but there is another reason it is so dangerous. Too many people - including a majority of young people - now get their news on the same platforms that have allowed these "terrorists" to use their sites to spread dis-information.

Zuckerberg rakes in his BILLIONS while allowing foreign cyber-terrorists to use his site as a delivery vehicle.

[Tugg Speedman]

Apparently, yes, it is a threat. And illegal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/16/politics/mueller-russia-indictments-election-interference/index.html

Actually not illegal ... did you notice what they were indicted on?  Bank fraud, mail fraud and 5 of the 8 counts were for  "aggressive identity theft." Also, note that none of them were American citizens.

Americans are protected by the first amendment which essentially allows to pretend to be someone and then lie through your teeth about it.  That is why all they could do is indict on "process crimes" (instead of making up names, they stole actual identities and illegally set up bank accounts).  They did not break laws by saying nasty things about Hillary.

If what they did is illegal, how many years are the mods of this board getting?  Becuase we essentially do the same thing here.  How many people are going to prison for impersonating Chicos?

Finally, today's indictment's essentially are the end of this process.  Everyone indicted is currently in Russia.  Unless Putin wants to extradite them, and assume the odds of that are between 0% and 0%, there is nothing more to this story.  No trial, no defense.  So no rolling these guys to cop a plea and give up bigger fish.  They are laughing their ass of at us in Moscow.

[tower912]

It is the end of the story as far as establishing that a grand jury believes that Russia influenced the 2016 election.    Mueller's investigation is nowhere near over.   

[Tugg Speedman]

It is the end of the story as far as establishing that a grand jury believes that Russia influenced the 2016 election.    Mueller's investigation is nowhere near over.

Yes, Mueller likes money and his friends so they will continue to waste time at 300% their normal rate (that is what special prosecutors get) but remember this ...

* Collusion is not a crime.  Trump could say he and Vlad planned the entire thing.  That is not against the law.  Yes, this is a political problem, but it is not criminal.

* The idea that a bunch of Facebook posts turned a US election makes anyone that thinks Obama is Kenyan look reasonable.  I cannot believe that supposedly educated people think that after a billion dollars of advertising thousands of hours of Mainstream coverage and entire forest cut down for print media to cover the election, $54 of Facebook advertising that contains lies turned the state of Wisconsin.  How can anyone take such fantasy as serious?

* And again, lying on facebook is not a crime.

* The closest thing we have to a Crime is the Clinton Campaign paying for the Dossier and passing it off as legit intel.

* If Comey was this man of high reputation, he is now a sorry joke.  Mueller is trying to make Comey look reasonable.  Michael Flynn pleaded GUILTY and is awaiting sentencing.  Mueller keeps putting off his sentencing because the texts and stories are weakening his case (Struck texted Page and said he did not think Flynn was lying ... oops!)  Mueller is so bloody incompetent he cannot convict a guy that pleaded guilty!

[tower912]

ROFL.