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Author Topic: Is foreign disinformation a threat?  (Read 14821 times)

jesmu84

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Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« on: November 04, 2017, 06:10:41 PM »
How do situations like this effect the US? It's people, media, culture, discussions, politics, etc.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/meet-jenna-abrams-a-completely-fake-russian-troll-farm-product-who-infiltrated-the-american-mainstream

What can we do about it? Should we do anything about it?

forgetful

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2017, 06:32:31 PM »
This thread could be a minefield, but is one that I'd love to see discussed in an open, non-partisan and friendly manner so that we can all learn something and share thoughts ideas.

So maybe we could all try to keep party-politics out of it to the best of our abilities. 

With that out of the way.

We have to do something about it, and we as a society are starting to possibly learn the dangers of a highly connected and global world.  The internet is where most of us get all our information, to the point that "screen-addiction" is a real and serious problem.

At the same time, we have a growing anti-intellectual movement, where because so much information is available on the internet, many think that they know or can know better than experts.  That leads to most peoples beliefs/ideals being derived primarily from random internet sources that are often just obscure bloggers/shock jock type individuals with no actual training or intellectual basis for what they say. 

In that type of environment, these types of disinformation campaigns can have profound societal and global impacts.  We all look for information that generally confirms what we already largely think to be true. 

The internet allows anyone to appear an expert, allowing for unprecedented impact of "confirmation bias", particularly in a culture with a new media that stokes the flames of partisan ideals, through more "editorial" programing than actual news. 

All any state-actor needs to do is play into the general mindsets of the peripheries of our political system, that gets your everyday people to propagate these ideas/stories and "confirmation bias," and editorial news takes things the rest of the way. 

If we do not address such issues, the "anti-intellectual" slant of our society will grow, and advancement/growth will stall.  The question is how do we curtail such actions without impacting the ideals that this nation was founded upon (e.g. freedom of speech/ideas).  No easy answer, but it is, in my opinion, the greatest threat facing our nation. 


Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2017, 06:33:24 PM »
Hopefully this will make people more cautious about coorborating prior to responding and/or believing info from these new platforms at face value.   

Propaganda is not new - it's just showing up in a new area that had an assigned higher level of trust in the past. 

tower912

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2017, 09:28:12 PM »
Like anything else, the foreign disinformation fed into confirmation bias so typical on the internet.    You can find domestic disinformation that feeds your confirmation bias as well.    It would be a good thing if we were all a little more discerning, a little more thoughtful, a little less willing to believe any horrible thing about 'the other' that reinforces our bias.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2017, 09:34:25 PM »
Social media propganda, foreign disinformation, fake news, etc. was given an avenue to the American public when the newspaper became no longer viable.

Americans loved the newspaper, but as the internet killed it, too many Americans believed everything on the internet. Too many Americans lost faith in true, unbiased journalism, which drove those people to more radical sources.

We could all greatly benefit from unbiased and uninfluenced reporting from multiple news sources. Unfortunately, I think the trenches currently dug will never allow those sources to exist.

TinyTimsLittleBrother

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2017, 09:35:34 PM »
Of course it’s a threat. Only racist truth deniers like rocket and Chicos would think otherwise. 

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 09:44:38 PM »
Of course it’s a threat. Only racist truth deniers like rocket and Chicos would think otherwise.

That's not helping
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 10:56:56 PM by TAMU Eagle »
TAMU

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tower912

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 09:50:15 PM »
Of course it’s a threat. Only racist truth deniers like rocket and Chicos would think otherwise.
Don't feed their persecution complex.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

brewcity77

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 10:32:38 PM »
It feeds confirmation biases on both sides. The reason it's so dangerous is because outlets like Facebook have created an algorithm specifically designed to feed us this kind of propaganda. Figure out which kind of BS the individual goes for and social media delivers it to them en masse.
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MU82

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 11:23:59 PM »
Yes, foreign disinformation is a threat.

And it is worsened because far too many believe actual news is "fake news."

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B. McBannerson

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 11:26:36 PM »
Of course, but then again we do it against other nations all the time.  Are we going to stop it ourselves?  This has been going on for a thousand years and isn't going to stop. 

Forget foreign information for a second, what about domestic disinformation by a press that is unwilling to always report everything, helping to tilt stories or even spike them if they wish?  It happens on both sides. 


B. McBannerson

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 11:36:27 PM »
Of course it’s a threat. Only racist truth deniers like rocket and Chicos would think otherwise.


Rocket and Chicos, looks like you two are pegged as racists because someone doesn't agree with you two.  Sad that this stuff continues to be allowed here.  Dialogue not allowed.

Benny B

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2017, 11:38:26 PM »
I'm sorry, but fake news has been around for decades, and it's not going away anytime soon because the correlation between people who vote in presidential elections and those who continue to fall for fake news has been a accelerating closer to 1 every four years for the past 8 or 9 election cycles (i.e. preceding the Internet).
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Mutaman

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2017, 12:03:48 AM »

Rocket and Chicos, looks like you two are pegged as racists because someone doesn't agree with you two. 

Or it could be because they have posted a lot of bigoted statements.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2017, 12:16:51 AM »

Rocket and Chicos, looks like you two are pegged as racists because someone doesn't agree with you two.  Sad that this stuff continues to be allowed here.  Dialogue not allowed.

What TinyTim said was unnecessary but are you now referring to yourself in the 3rd person?
TAMU

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Jockey

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2017, 01:15:02 AM »
The biggest problem is that the majority of millennials get their news solely from social media. It is very easy to find polls to prove how many people believe false information.


And it is very funny/pathetic that Chicas continues to pretend.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2017, 04:36:37 AM »
How do situations like this effect the US? It's people, media, culture, discussions, politics, etc.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/meet-jenna-abrams-a-completely-fake-russian-troll-farm-product-who-infiltrated-the-american-mainstream

What can we do about it? Should we do anything about it?

So the Russians catfish-ed the entire country?

Who is laughing at Manti T’eo now?

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2017, 05:34:03 AM »
This thread could be a minefield, but is one that I'd love to see discussed in an open, non-partisan and friendly manner so that we can all learn something and share thoughts ideas.

So maybe we could all try to keep party-politics out of it to the best of our abilities. 

With that out of the way.

We have to do something about it, and we as a society are starting to possibly learn the dangers of a highly connected and global world.  The internet is where most of us get all our information, to the point that "screen-addiction" is a real and serious problem.

At the same time, we have a growing anti-intellectual movement, where because so much information is available on the internet, many think that they know or can know better than experts.  That leads to most peoples beliefs/ideals being derived primarily from random internet sources that are often just obscure bloggers/shock jock type individuals with no actual training or intellectual basis for what they say. 

In that type of environment, these types of disinformation campaigns can have profound societal and global impacts.  We all look for information that generally confirms what we already largely think to be true. 

The internet allows anyone to appear an expert, allowing for unprecedented impact of "confirmation bias", particularly in a culture with a new media that stokes the flames of partisan ideals, through more "editorial" programing than actual news. 

All any state-actor needs to do is play into the general mindsets of the peripheries of our political system, that gets your everyday people to propagate these ideas/stories and "confirmation bias," and editorial news takes things the rest of the way. 

If we do not address such issues, the "anti-intellectual" slant of our society will grow, and advancement/growth will stall.  The question is how do we curtail such actions without impacting the ideals that this nation was founded upon (e.g. freedom of speech/ideas).  No easy answer, but it is, in my opinion, the greatest threat facing our nation.

I agree with you about the devaluing of experts.  But it is not unique to the US.

Last year during the BRexit debate UK Justice Secretary (Like our Attorney General) Michael Gove, who was pro-BRexit, said the line that defined the entire debate.

Britain has had enough of experts, says Gove
https://www.ft.com/content/3be49734-29cb-11e6-83e4-abc22d5d108c

Which sparked this debate ...

Michael Gove debates top academic over the value of 'experts'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/15/watch-live-michael-gove-goes-head-head-academic-debate-value/

As you know BRexit passed and all the caterwauling about how the UK economy would crumble if it passed did not happen.  The experts were wrong.

Also “experts” in economics have taken a might body blow for failing to see the 2008 financial crisis.  The federal Reserve’s stature may have taken a permanent hit.

This problem is a lot of expertise has been exposed as nothing more than self-serving hyper-partisan propaganda. so now everyone assumes that all expertise hyper-partisan propaganda.

Then a few weeks ago John McCain exposed himself in a speech with this line ...

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/16/john-mccain-nationalism-constitution-243848
To fear the world we have organized and led for three-quarters of a century, to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain ‘the last best hope of earth’ for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems,” McCain said, “is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.

What an arrogant statement.  ‘We” are in charge and how dare anyone question our motivations or what we have done.

This is the problem with the climate change debate. Maybe all the science on climate change is 100% correct, but coming from hyper partisan academia, were opposing viewpoints are discouraged, devalues it in the eyes of many.

What expertise needs to regain is the perception that it is in the pursuit of truth no matter where it takes it. Today it’s just a political agenda masqueraded as expertise.

GGGG

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2017, 07:23:30 AM »
Of course, but then again we do it against other nations all the time.  Are we going to stop it ourselves?  This has been going on for a thousand years and isn't going to stop. 

Forget foreign information for a second, what about domestic disinformation by a press that is unwilling to always report everything, helping to tilt stories or even spike them if they wish?  It happens on both sides. 


You are truly the king of the strawmen. 

tower912

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2017, 08:36:22 AM »
I agree with you about the devaluing of experts.  But it is not unique to the US.

Last year during the BRexit debate UK Justice Secretary (Like our Attorney General) Michael Gove, who was pro-BRexit, said the line that defined the entire debate.

Britain has had enough of experts, says Gove
https://www.ft.com/content/3be49734-29cb-11e6-83e4-abc22d5d108c

Which sparked this debate ...

Michael Gove debates top academic over the value of 'experts'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/15/watch-live-michael-gove-goes-head-head-academic-debate-value/

As you know BRexit passed and all the caterwauling about how the UK economy would crumble if it passed did not happen.  The experts were wrong.

Also “experts” in economics have taken a might body blow for failing to see the 2008 financial crisis.  The federal Reserve’s stature may have taken a permanent hit.

This problem is a lot of expertise has been exposed as nothing more than self-serving hyper-partisan propaganda. so now everyone assumes that all expertise hyper-partisan propaganda.

Then a few weeks ago John McCain exposed himself in a speech with this line ...

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/16/john-mccain-nationalism-constitution-243848
To fear the world we have organized and led for three-quarters of a century, to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain ‘the last best hope of earth’ for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems,” McCain said, “is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.

What an arrogant statement.  ‘We” are in charge and how dare anyone question our motivations or what we have done.

This is the problem with the climate change debate. Maybe all the science on climate change is 100% correct, but coming from hyper partisan academia, were opposing viewpoints are discouraged, devalues it in the eyes of many.

What expertise needs to regain is the perception that it is in the pursuit of truth no matter where it takes it. Today it’s just a political agenda masqueraded as expertise.
Every time you post, I become more convinced you are in a Moscow basement.     You live for and thrive on disinformation.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jesmu84

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2017, 08:59:12 AM »
The biggest problem is that the majority of millennials get their news solely from social media. It is very easy to find polls to prove how many people believe false information.


And it is very funny/pathetic that Chicas continues to pretend.

I wouldn't limit that to millennials. I can't begin to tell you how much stuff my parents and their friends (mid 60s) read on Facebook and pass on as facts.

jesmu84

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2017, 09:00:30 AM »
Of course, but then again we do it against other nations all the time.  Are we going to stop it ourselves?  This has been going on for a thousand years and isn't going to stop. 

Forget foreign information for a second, what about domestic disinformation by a press that is unwilling to always report everything, helping to tilt stories or even spike them if they wish?  It happens on both sides.

100% agree that domestic media has bias in their stories/reporting.

However, if you're equating that with a foreign power trying to manipulate our populace and shape our government/policy, I think that's nuts. There is no equivalency there.

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2017, 09:01:16 AM »
I wouldn't limit that to millennials. I can't begin to tell you how much stuff my parents and their friends (mid 60s) read on Facebook and pass on as facts.

I think the voting demographics in this particular Russian situation would push the needle towards boomers far more than millennials.

B. McBannerson

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2017, 09:06:56 AM »

There there are the gatekeepers.  We put all this power into the hands of Google, Facebook, Twitter. Why?  They have enormous control.

Anyone watch the Senate hearings last week with these Silicon Valley giants?  Case in point, Twitter admitted (pages 6 and 7) to suppressing hashtags around the DNC leaks.   https://www.lgraham.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/4766f54d-d433-4055-9f3d-c94f97eeb1c0/testimony-of-sean-edgett-acting-general-counsel-twitter.pdf

Those leaks turned out to be true, 48% were suppressed for TRUTHFUL information.  Did we know if it was truthful at the time?  Good question. Will they act in the same way if it was a different ideology in play? Afterall, this is the same social media site that a disgruntled employee took down the twitter account of the most powerful person in the world the other day.

Social media is the vehicle in which information (truthful and non-truthful) spreads in a matter of seconds around the world. Who are the gatekeepers? What do they believe? What do they suppress or accentuate? 

Scary stuff

B. McBannerson

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Re: Is foreign disinformation a threat?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 09:19:18 AM »

You are truly the king of the strawmen.

Stories are spiked all the time, that is not a strawman.  Harvey Weinstein?

You can watch any number of hidden camera footage of media types admitting to doing so, books on the subject, or just pay attention. Both sides do it.  Are you saying Fox News digs hard into conservative politics to expose them?  How about MSNBC on liberals politics? 

Examples a plenty in this article from last week.  Spiked stories. No strawman.

Excerpt from the article, worth the read.

"Over the years managers asked me to to soften or remove information from stories — or “held” stories — related to the NFL, the American Red Cross, Ford Motor Company, People to People, Feed the Children, the government, a college football player, Goldman Sachs and Boeing, to name but a few. (This implies no illegal activity or wrongdoing on anyone’s part; it simply raises ethical questions within the journalism industry.)

If nothing else, they hope to wear you down. Or better yet, wear down your bosses so that they seek to avoid the stories altogether."

http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/354754-weinstein-allegations-are-not-the-first-stories-spiked-by-media
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 10:02:01 AM by B. McBannerson »