ESPN Get Worse

[rocket surgeon]

Is that what they are protesting against?  Becuase every week every player has a different reason for taking a knee.  In the end, it all just looks like disrespecting the country.

The anthem stands for something to MOST people.  On the field, there is a decorum that is expected during the anthem, God bless America, presenting of the colors, a moment of silence for someone, etc.  not acting within that decorum is considered disrespectful-period.  Whatever it is that they claim they are doing is backfiring.  The commish and the owners did not lead when this first started out and this is what happens.  I don't care if 50%(and that's very high and generous)  agree with it.  You just lost the other half of your audience/ customers-not many businesses can afford to do that very often

[Golden Avalanche]

OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree  with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.

NASCAR ratings are down in 2017. Is that politics related as well? Also, the NFL players are not engaged in a political protest.

Then again, people aren't interested in the truth when it conflicts with their politics/biases.

[Pakuni]

this tortured logic with incorrect facts (the NFL is crashing the last 2 to 3 years while most other sports are rising. ... even freaking Tennis is rising in the last 2 to 3 years).

The problem is too many in the NFL thinks this actually passes as the rationalization which is why they cannot/will not the obvious elephant in the room as to the real problem.

I get it. Facts are hard for some people. But let's try to inject some:

NBA viewership hit a five-year low in the 2016-17 season:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nba-viewership-hits-five-year-low-league-fix-problem/

NHL ratings in the U.S. fell 20 percent in 2016-17, down to their lowest levels since the early 90s.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nhl/2016-17-nhl-ratings-dropped-u-s-rose-canada.html

MLB ratings in local markets fell 6 percent this year:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#706353243799

Ratings for golf's major events in 2017 were at their lowest levels since 2008:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/14/36-2017-pga-ratings-lowest-since-08-whats-up.html

22 of 26 NASCAR races this year (through mid-September) saw a ratings decline:
http://awfulannouncing.com/racing/nascar-opens-2017-playoffs-lowest-rated-postseason-race-ever.html

Can't find full-year ratings yet, but MLS viewership was down 8 percent in the first month of the 2017 season:
http://lastwordonsoccer.com/2017/04/10/not-worry-low-mls-tv-ratings/

Need more? Given these numbers, the NFL's 5 percent decline (which, I'll reiterate, is a small drop than most other programming) doesn't seem so bad.

By the way ... if NFL ratings were crashing 2-3 years ago, as you claim, how is a protest that began less than 15 months ago to blame?

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

More trivia:  With one of the picks that the Oilers got from the Rams, they picked Alonzo Highsmith who of course works for the Packers.

I have come to the conclusion that every bad personnel decision that the Packers made in the 1980s was worth it.  They had to hit rock bottom to clean house fully and get rid of the old culture.  So I am glad they missed out on Everett.  I am glad they won the last game of the year in 1988 so they couldn't draft Aikman.  I am glad they drafted Tony Mandarich instead of Barry Sanders.

It was all worth it.

[Babybluejeans]

The anthem stands for something to MOST people.  On the field, there is a decorum that is expected during the anthem, God bless America, presenting of the colors, a moment of silence for someone, etc.

Among the few things more quintessentially American than these acts are...the act of protest. Cf. all of American history.

The fact that people - typically older white guys, who seem to be the angriest people around - try to legislate how and when black people can protest only validates the point of their protest in the first place.

[jesmu84]

The anthem stands for something to MOST people.  On the field, there is a decorum that is expected during the anthem, God bless America, presenting of the colors, a moment of silence for someone, etc.  not acting within that decorum is considered disrespectful-period.  Whatever it is that they claim they are doing is backfiring.  The commish and the owners did not lead when this first started out and this is what happens.  I don't care if 50%(and that's very high and generous)  agree with it.  You just lost the other half of your audience/ customers-not many businesses can afford to do that very often

What about not following the flag code? If it's so disrespectful to have a peaceful protest during the anthem, I bet you hold the flag code in highest respect and wouldn't tolerate anyone disparaging it, right?

[MU82]

I get it. Facts are hard for some people. But let's try to inject some:

NBA viewership hit a five-year low in the 2016-17 season:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nba-viewership-hits-five-year-low-league-fix-problem/

NHL ratings in the U.S. fell 20 percent in 2016-17, down to their lowest levels since the early 90s.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nhl/2016-17-nhl-ratings-dropped-u-s-rose-canada.html

MLB ratings in local markets fell 6 percent this year:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#706353243799

Ratings for golf's major events in 2017 were at their lowest levels since 2008:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/14/36-2017-pga-ratings-lowest-since-08-whats-up.html

22 of 26 NASCAR races this year (through mid-September) saw a ratings decline:
http://awfulannouncing.com/racing/nascar-opens-2017-playoffs-lowest-rated-postseason-race-ever.html

Can't find full-year ratings yet, but MLS viewership was down 8 percent in the first month of the 2017 season:
http://lastwordonsoccer.com/2017/04/10/not-worry-low-mls-tv-ratings/

Need more? Given these numbers, the NFL's 5 percent decline (which, I'll reiterate, is a small drop than most other programming) doesn't seem so bad.

By the way ... if NFL ratings were crashing 2-3 years ago, as you claim, how is a protest that began less than 15 months ago to blame?

There you go again, Pakuni ... trying to win arguments with facts.

Haven't you heard? We are in the Alternative Facts World now. People make up whatever facts they need. It works for the most powerful person in the world, so why not Scoopers?

I was going to bring up NASCAR before somebody else did. There is a "sport" that wraps itself in the flag like no other. A bunch of good ol' white boys makin' a bunch of left turns in front of a big white audience. They respect all flags - including the Confederate one! I remember reading a few years back how NASCAR was the next big thing, ratings were going through the roof, etc.

What happened? After the NFL protests, they decided to seize on the moment and announced they would tolerate no protests. Why didn't their ratings soar?

[jesmu84]

Darren Rovell is the Sports Business Reporter for ESPN

@darrenrovell
Papa John's says it has been pulling advertising associated with the NFL. The league, it says, has given some future spots in return.

Scapegoating

https://sports.yahoo.com/even-papa-johns-scapegoating-nfl-roger-goodell-league-alarmed-234130771.html

[Jockey]

I apologize. I just assumed it was a new account for our friend chicos/4or5. I was kind of correct. Seems he renamed 4or5 to this new "McPherson".

It seems we are his only "friends". He needs us.

For some reason, I find that more amusing than pathetic.

[Hards Alumni]

Ratings peaked in 2013. 2014 and 2015 showed moderate dips. In 2016 (Kaps 1st protest year, the pig/cop socks, etc.) they fell hard. As many joined the protests in 2017 the ratings continue to fall hard. Occam's Razor.

So you're conceding my point that it has been trending downward for years before the protests... yet you're saying that the most obvious answer (your opinion) is that that National Anthem protests is the cause? 

Occam's razor should be on my side, since there was an established problem with the NFL for years... the simplest answer is probably the right answer... You're creating a narrative that isn't more simple.

[Tugg Speedman]

I get it. Facts are hard for some people. But let's try to inject some:

NBA viewership hit a five-year low in the 2016-17 season:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nba-viewership-hits-five-year-low-league-fix-problem/

NHL ratings in the U.S. fell 20 percent in 2016-17, down to their lowest levels since the early 90s.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nhl/2016-17-nhl-ratings-dropped-u-s-rose-canada.html

MLB ratings in local markets fell 6 percent this year:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#706353243799

Ratings for golf's major events in 2017 were at their lowest levels since 2008:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/14/36-2017-pga-ratings-lowest-since-08-whats-up.html

22 of 26 NASCAR races this year (through mid-September) saw a ratings decline:
http://awfulannouncing.com/racing/nascar-opens-2017-playoffs-lowest-rated-postseason-race-ever.html

Can't find full-year ratings yet, but MLS viewership was down 8 percent in the first month of the 2017 season:
http://lastwordonsoccer.com/2017/04/10/not-worry-low-mls-tv-ratings/

Need more? Given these numbers, the NFL's 5 percent decline (which, I'll reiterate, is a small drop than most other programming) doesn't seem so bad.

By the way ... if NFL ratings were crashing 2-3 years ago, as you claim, how is a protest that began less than 15 months ago to blame?

the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports.  You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.

But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82).  Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.

As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.

[mu-rara]

the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports.  You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.

But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82).  Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.

As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.

These guys are the same that are giving credit to Obama for the current economic success.  This is good.  As long as they deny the truth the better we'll be in the long run.

[Pakuni]

But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82).  Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.

You literally are denying facts because they run counter to your ideological narrative, and then come up with this statement.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports.  You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.

But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82).  Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.

As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.

You were the one that was wrong. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Please cease with points that are cogent and logical. People aren't interested in the truth when it conflicts with their politics/biases.

Lenny just called a Chicos post cogent and logical. Someone check for airborne swine.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree  with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.

On the bolded, I'm one person, but I absolutely am giving up live sports in favor of Netflix and other streaming services. It used to be that I would just have any live sporting event on the TV when I was home. It didn't matter who was playing or what sport. I could always jump in and enjoy that one game. I only watched maybe one or two TV shows religiously because I couldn't dedicate specific hours of the evening every week in order to keep up with the show. Now that I can watch whatever I want whenever I want? I never watch random sporting events anymore. I don't watch multiple NFL games anymore. I watch Marquette, the Packers, and the Bucks/Brewers if there's a national broadcast. And I'll watch the playoffs....though honestly I didn't watch the NBA playoffs after the Bucks were eliminated until the championship and I only watched the World Series, not any of the games leading up to it. I do watch random college basketball games sometimes. That's my favorite sport and its entertainment value to me outweighs Netflix.....random games of other sports? Nah, I'd rather watch my favorite TV shows.

But I think the greater point with Netflix (and other streaming services) is that people are now cordcutting because of it. I'm an avid sports fan but I got rid of cable and just got Sling TV to watch the few sporting events I care about. Most people who are cutting the cord aren't doing it because of ESPN, but ESPN is disproportionately affected because that channel adds more to the cable bill than any other channel.

ESPN is dying the death of a 1000 cuts. The anthem protests is one of those cuts....but I doubt its even close to the largest one. Its just the one everyone likes to focus on.

[Hards Alumni]

the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports.  You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.

But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82).  Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.

As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.

Both of you are using Occam's razor wrong.

You're creating a convoluted narrative to fit the facts... Rather than looking at the trend and realizing that the NFL has over-saturated the market, and has been losing viewership for years.

[cheebs09]

Does anyone have stats on Fantasy Sports? I used to be an avid player and that resulted in my Sunday's being taken up by football. Now that I'm a little older, with more responsibility, I'm barely watching any games that aren't the Packers.

It may just be a personal story and not a trend, but I was curious if the fantasy bubble has kind of popped.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Buying Papa John's, Dominoes, Little Caesars, etc for my guests/friends?

What an insult to them. Simply says "cheapskate".

I would never touch any of these, ever!

[Mr. Nielsen]

NASCAR ratings are down in 2017.

Fans don't like the point system set-up.

[Jockey]

Lenny just called a Chicos post cogent and logical. Someone check for airborne swine.

Wow. Lenny is a good poster.

Might be time for an intervention!!

[Jockey]

Does anyone have stats on Fantasy Sports? I used to be an avid player and that resulted in my Sunday's being taken up by football. Now that I'm a little older, with more responsibility, I'm barely watching any games that aren't the Packers.

It may just be a personal story and not a trend, but I was curious if the fantasy bubble has kind of popped.

My personal opinion is that numbers are up, but that's just an opinion.

However, I think this is one more of the myriad of reasons viewership is down. The games don't matter anymore  - it's only about the numbers.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Fans don't like the point system set-up.

They've been falling for years.

[jesmu84]

http://www.businessinsider.com/yum-ceo-nfl-protests-havent-hurt-pizza-huts-sales-2017-11

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Column today about how ESPN might just decide to drop NFL broadcasting all together when the currents rights deal expires.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-espn-could-abandon-nfl-football-guest-column-1052792