ESPN Get Worse

[B. McBannerson]

Yeah,  i don't buy the not on your employers time arguement. Is there any other workplace in this country outside of professional sports that forces their employees into participating in the star spangled banner? Participating in the anthem is a political action. I don't think employers have the right to make their employees do that. It's very unamerican

At the Olympics playing the anthem is a political action?  Come on. 

Are you gobsmacked at players getting together at the end of the game in a circle to pray after the game, sometimes shown on tv? That stadium was almost certainly built with public money and some fans could be offended, should that be stopped immediately?

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

And the race card comes out again.  Always by the same folks.  Clarence Thomas made some very poignant comments the other day that we simply can't have conversation in this country anymore without others labeling each other as racist, misogynistic, or whatever. Honest debate cannot happen anymore, which is extremely unfortunate and will eventually destroy the country. 

It also gets people elected that the very folks making these absurd claims don't want.  Why?  Because people that aren't racist but being labeled as racist don't like it, and they vote, and they push back.  Maybe that will sink in at some point.

Oh God. The "people who point out racism are responsible for Trump" line. Yes. The poor who're people of the world. So oppressed.

And I'm not playing the "race card."  It's a protest about racial injustice. Race is inherent in the discussion.

[Spotcheck Billy]

All the owners have to do is enforce the rules.  If you violate the rules, you are suspended, fined, cut, whatever.  You want to protest, do it all day on your time.  People want to watch football to escape the every day politics that creep into our lives, sports is an escape. The NFL is not powerless, they choose to do what they are doing and they are reaping what they sow. 

Please stop it with "the rules". It has been mentioned several times in this thread that it is NOT in the "rules". The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.

The actual rules states: Both teams must be on the field to kick off at the scheduled time for the start of each half. Prior to the start of the game, both teams are required to appear on the field at least 10 minutes prior to the scheduled kickoff in order to ensure sufficient time for proper warm-up. Designated members of the officiating crew must notify both head coaches personally of the scheduled time for kickoff prior to the start of each half.

You, like many, are confused by the NFL game operations manual (which league spokesman Brian McCarthy described as a "policy" rather than a "rule") which does state:

'The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

'During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.'

Note the use of "should" and "may" not "must" and "will".

[GGGG]

I agree with this. Isn't it in Jerry's best interest to blame the protests rather than admitting the product is going downhill. The protests play a part, but I'm not sure I'd say it's the biggest reason. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back.

Between CTE, Ray Rice, and deflate gate, the NFL has rarely been in the news for a positive thing. It may be that people are just tired of it and this is the year they stopped watching.

Or over-saturation.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cbs-sports-chairman-sean-mcmanus-reverses-stance-blames-dilution-saturation-nfl-ratings-dip.html

Last night was a great example.  Too many flags.  Too much poor play.  It's a bad product right now.  That's why Deshaun Watson's injury is so terrible.  It takes one of the young players, who can REALLY play, out of the game.  And gives you...Tom Savage.  And the Texans will still have a decent shot at the playoffs in a conference where only three teams are two games over .500 or better.

College football is much more watchable.  You don't need a great NFL-style passer to succeed. 

[Hards Alumni]

And the race card comes out again.  Always by the same folks.  Clarence Thomas made some very poignant comments the other day that we simply can't have conversation in this country anymore without others labeling each other as racist, misogynistic, or whatever. Honest debate cannot happen anymore, which is extremely unfortunate and will eventually destroy the country. 

It also gets people elected that the very folks making these absurd claims don't want.  Why?  Because people that aren't racist but being labeled as racist don't like it, and they vote, and they push back.  Maybe that will sink in at some point.

Jamie from Orange County on the case!

[Lennys Tap]

"Hi!  I am a white man telling you black people how and when to protest racial injustice.  I hope you take my advice to heart."

How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."

[Lennys Tap]

Or over-saturation.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cbs-sports-chairman-sean-mcmanus-reverses-stance-blames-dilution-saturation-nfl-ratings-dip.html

Last night was a great example.  Too many flags.  Too much poor play.  It's a bad product right now.  That's why Deshaun Watson's injury is so terrible.  It takes one of the young players, who can REALLY play, out of the game.  And gives you...Tom Savage.  And the Texans will still have a decent shot at the playoffs in a conference where only three teams are two games over .500 or better.

College football is much more watchable.  You don't need a great NFL-style passer to succeed.

Welcome home, Sultan!

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."

Thanks for whitesplaining it for me. I guess they are too dumb to understand what's in their best interests.

[MU82]

MU82 seems to be naming people different names, so in his honor I will continue stand for the national anthem, stand out of respect for God Bless America and will continue to do so and adopted one of his names.  Smuggles seemed to be available, Yogi and some other ones.

Excellent choice of the first initial, Banny!

But the last name's McBannerson, not McPherson. Get it right!!

How desperate does a person have to be to get banned from a dopey interwebs site like ours and yet keep coming back time and time again? As your orange hero would say: "Sad!"

As for the yuuuge relationship between protests and ratings ...

As soon as one of you experts can explain why the ratings of a sport (NASCAR) that wraps itself around the flag like no other can keep going down, down, down - even though everybody involved in it disavowed those horrible NFLers and cast themselves as the true (white) patriots - I'll believe the relationship is significant.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

At the Olympics playing the anthem is a political action?  Come on. 

Of course it's a political action. I have no problem with a company choosing to play the national anthem. Companies make political actions all the time. I have a problem with a company forcing its employees to participate in it.

Are you gobsmacked at players getting together at the end of the game in a circle to pray after the game, sometimes shown on tv? That stadium was almost certainly built with public money and some fans could be offended, should that be stopped immediately?

Why would I have an issue with it? Individuals should always have the right to express their faith as long as it doesn't limit the rights of others.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."

I wouldn't be surprised if I could count the number of people who support the cause but are boycotting the NFL because of the protests on one hand.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Or was it the fist in the air?  Or was it the fist in the air while kneeling?   Message?  Which message is it today?  Look, what they are doing during the national anthem is purposely provocative and the wrong place to do it, that's all.  No one is saying they CANNOT express their "outrage of the day" but not during the national anthem before the people gathered in their workplace to see them perform. They are hijacking their boss's paying customers and laying a turd down during a short ceremony that most people understand and respect for allowing us to gather.

But you would be okay with someone doing something during the national anthem if it "honored" someone. What if instead of protesting racial injustice (which has been the consistent message, no matter what the flag disrespecter Tomi Lahren says), they said they wanted to honor those who lost their lives due to wrongful shootings by law enforcement?

You can't just protest anywhere?  As I've been saying, take the protest to the LGBT convention or MLK memorials, spread the word

Why do you keep bringing up LGBT conventions or MLK memorials?

Can you protest in your office?

I am a state actor so my rights are more limited than most. But if I was being forced to participate in the national anthem my office would support my right to opt out.

[Jockey]

Or over-saturation.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cbs-sports-chairman-sean-mcmanus-reverses-stance-blames-dilution-saturation-nfl-ratings-dip.html

Last night was a great example.  Too many flags.  Too much poor play.  It's a bad product right now.  That's why Deshaun Watson's injury is so terrible.  It takes one of the young players, who can REALLY play, out of the game.  And gives you...Tom Savage.  And the Texans will still have a decent shot at the playoffs in a conference where only three teams are two games over .500 or better.

College football is much more watchable.  You don't need a great NFL-style passer to succeed.

Instead of Watson, Rodgers, and Luck -- we get Savage, Hundley, and Brissett.

Yuk!!!

[Jockey]

How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."

Nice try Lennie. So you really think those who are against black players protesting before NFL games are accepting of Black Lives Matter protests?

Hilarious!

OTOH, I haven't seen you post much lately - so it's good to have you back.

[tower912]

LOL.  How absurd.  This is the year they decided to do this?  This is ALSO the year fans decided to cut Game Pass subscriptions, cut Direct TV NFL Package.  This is also the year fans decided to buy less merchandise and burn stuff they had.  This is the year, what a coincidence, nothing propelled them to do it.

Your last statement, I have to tell you that is why a certain person won a big election because for most people in this country, they believe you stand for the National Anthem and GBA.  For the same reason you would stand for the Canadian Anthem or any other anthem, out of respect.  You are playing into your favorite politician's hands by doing and saying what you are going to do, and the funny thing is you don't even realize it.  RESIST!!!   

This is the year my house started boycotting it.  My wife became political over the last year.  She was unaware of the Papa Johns CEO political views in 2012.  I knew, cared, but since kids and wife liked their pizza, I didn't make an issue.   It is an issue now.

[jsglow]

They've been falling for years.

Yep.  Pretty much since the playoff format ruined racing.  And I've been a huge fan since way before racing was on any TV.  NASCAR blows now.  And I watched Plymouth Superbirds in person so I know what I'm talking about.

[GGGG]

Playoff format, car of tomorrow, restrictor plates, the "old generation" retiring and being replaced with dozens of the same basic guy in a different uniform...

When Dick Trickle left, he took the whole sport down with him.

[MU82]

Playoff format, car of tomorrow, restrictor plates, the "old generation" retiring and being replaced with dozens of the same basic guy in a different uniform...

When Dick Trickle left, he took the whole sport down with him.

But ... but ... but ... they're SOOOO patriotic!

One would think that every patriotic fan who leaves the NFL would be happy to stand up and cheer the patriotic (white male) competitors from NASCAR!!!

[MUBurrow]

It also gets people elected that the very folks making these absurd claims don't want.  Why?  Because people that aren't racist but being labeled as racist don't like it, and they vote, and they push back.  Maybe that will sink in at some point.

This is circular.

That is probably the most charitable thing that can be said about it.

[LAZER]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/media/nfl-ratings-tv-networks/index.html?sr=twmoney102617nfl-ratings-tv-networks1105PMVODtopLink&linkId=43977442

"Through week seven, the NFL is down 5% overall from the same point last year. That's a troubling drop for the biggest ratings powerhouse on TV, but it seems less dire when you consider that the four major networks are down an average 8% in prime time.

NBC is down 4%, CBS is down 6%, ABC is down 11%, and Fox's prime time viewership dropped 20% through the first month of the new TV season, according to Nielsen data."

[jsglow]

But ... but ... but ... they're SOOOO patriotic!

One would think that every patriotic fan who leaves the NFL would be happy to stand up and cheer the patriotic (white male) competitors from NASCAR!!!

It actually has very little to do with it but I know you have your narrative so you go with that if you want.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The ratings conversation is a great example of one of the problems dividing our country. I don't understand how ratings work. I have B McP. on one side saying the ratings are crashing just in the last two years. I have others saying the ratings have been declining for years. Lazer says they've been crashing this year, but not as badly as other networks. All three have provided articles backing up their points.

I'm assuming there are elements of truth to all three. There is probably one that is more true than the others. Hell, all three could be true but I just don't understand ratings enough to see it. But the existence of all this seemingly contradictory information puts the onus on me, the consumer, to either pick one of the viewpoints, or truly educate myself on ratings to get a better understanding of what is going on. Unfortunately, most Americans, on all sides of the political spectrum, are more likely to just pick the one that fits their narrative best and declare the others lies or fake news.

[Golden Avalanche]

The ratings conversation is a great example of one of the problems dividing our country. I don't understand how ratings work. I have B McP. on one side saying the ratings are crashing just in the last two years. I have others saying the ratings have been declining for years. Lazer says they've been crashing this year, but not as badly as other networks. All three have provided articles backing up their points.

I'm assuming there are elements of truth to all three. There is probably one that is more true than the others. Hell, all three could be true but I just don't understand ratings enough to see it. But the existence of all this seemingly contradictory information puts the onus on me, the consumer, to either pick one of the viewpoints, or truly educate myself on ratings to get a better understanding of what is going on. Unfortunately, most Americans, on all sides of the political spectrum, are more likely to just pick the one that fits their narrative best and declare the others lies or fake news.

And this is what Schnatter did. Blaming a "protest movement" that started 15 months ago is an easy cop out for a company that slings an inferior product.

Papa certainly wasn't going to drag his partner on their horrendous handling of the CTE issue or their astronomical pricing out of a typical American family or their incessant issues in the courtrooms of the country.

The quarterback from Wisconsin gave this business owner the kind of cover he needed to admit sales are sluggish without fully spooking his shareholders.

[rocket surgeon]

Yeah,  i don't buy the not on your employers time arguement. Is there any other workplace in this country outside of professional sports that forces their employees into participating in the star spangled banner? Participating in the anthem is a political action. I don't think employers have the right to make their employees do that. It's very unamerican

First of all, this is what it is about-the national anthem.  You might be right about any other workplace...but that's not what we have here.  Let's say an employer starts each day with a prayer?  A meeting?  Etc etc...if an employee(s) interrupt those with a protest, I'm sure they'd be thru the door before it even opened. 

I don't think we are going to get anywhere here-doesn't look like we've changed anyone's opinion on this, but I'm sure any of you out there who've disregarded your employee handbook have either quit by now or are forming some kind of protest I guess

[rocket surgeon]

How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."

This is one of the best and sums it up beautifully. These guys aren't going to win.  Maybe in the lefts mind and on principle, but they are hurting those in front of them and taking their future peers backwards.  Kinda like a reverse tiger woods