Interesting Stats About MU's Incoming Freshman (2017)

[Tugg Speedman]

Went to a presentation by Michael Lovell at the University Club in Chicago.  Brian Troyer, Dean of Admissions, also spoke.

About 50ish alumni were there, anyone else here go?

A couple of takeaways (going from memory so please correct if you can) ...

The United States has 61 Jesuit High Schools and 28 Jesuit Colleges.  The biggest Jesuit pipeline in the country is Loyola Academy in Wilmette to MU.  In the class of 2017, over 200 kids from Loyola Academy applied to MU and 43 enrolled.

42% of the incoming class of 2017 are from Illinois, more than WI.  31% are of color.

MU's class of 2017 has 164 kids from Jesuit high schools, beating out Santa Clara (161) as the most Jesuit kids in a single class among the 28 Jesuit Universities.

MU needs 1,970 kids in an incoming class for budget purposes.  The 2017 class had 2,027.

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Also, when Wild Hall is done next year, that kicks off a two-phase $600 million capital campaign of building on campus. 

After McCormick closes next year, it will be immediately torn down.  In its place will be a new "health and wellness" center.  The current Rec Center will be torn down and the new business school, connected with the new engineering school via "innovation alley" will be built.

[Tugg Speedman]

I thought of a few more things ....

23% of the 2017 class is kids that are the first one in the family to go to college. 18% of the class are legacies.

The average discount from the tuition sticker price is 40%.

Marquette's yield, or the percentage  of accepted students that enroll, is 18%. However an accepted istudent visits the campus, the yield goes to 40%. If they visit campus more than once and goes to 55%.   

The admission director argued the single most important thing To get a kid to enroll is visiting the school. However I would argue  that logic might be reversed. They visit because they have a strong interest in going to MU in the first place not that they were impartial going in and convinced to come.

[dgies9156]

Thanks Jig. I had wanted to go to that reception, but was away on business.

[GGGG]

I thought of a few more things ....

23% of the 2017 class is kids that are the first one in the family to go to college. 18% of the class are legacies.

The average discount from the tuition sticker price is 40%.

Marquette's yield, or the percentage  of accepted students that enroll, is 18%. However an accepted istudent visits the campus, the yield goes to 40%. If they visit campus more than once and goes to 55%.   

The admission director argued the single most important thing To get a kid to enroll is visiting the school. However I would argue  that logic might be reversed. They visit because they have a strong interest in going to MU in the first place not that they were impartial going in and convinced to come.

You're not completely wrong, but he's more right than you are. If that makes sense.

[Disco Hippie]

I don't understand why they're so focused on recruiting at Jesuit high schools.    They're always going to have that constituency but the type of high school the incoming freshman class comes from shouldn't be relevant.  Perhaps if they cast a wider net and spent 1/4 of as much time recruiting good students from great public schools, as they do recruiting students from Jesuit high school's and other Catholic high schools, the number of applications wouldn't have decreased from 25K to 13.5K two years ago and the acceptance rate wouldn't have increased from 65% to 84% in that same time period.   There are a hell of a lot more students in public high schools than private, let alone Jesuit high schools, and at least in the region where I live most public high schools are significantly better than their private / catholic cohorts.

I know the academic profile of the incoming class hasn't deteriorated, but as long as the acceptance rate is that high,  the average standardized test scores and GPA of the incoming class could be the highest  they've ever been in the institution's history and it still won't be enough to offset the extremely negative perception.  It seems the current administration and BOT are completely blind to the negative perception of that, at least in the part of the country where I live.   I don't think it's fair to say people like me are a bunch of northeastern elitist snobs when all we really want is for Marquette to maintain the ranking it had a couple of years ago and have a reasonable acceptance rate around 60 to 65%.  That's hardly elite status.

Marquette needs to aim higher!  Curious if any alums at the event had the gumption to grill leadership on their current approach.   I guarantee if they do the same presentation in Boston, New York, Phillly, or DC they will be called out on that by the alumni base out here,  because it's becoming virtually impossible to get  high school students out here and more importantly their parents footing the bill to even consider Marquette as a viable option anymore.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yep, we get better and more diverse students....while spending less money. Sounds like a real lose lose to me.

[GGGG]

Yeah but if you're not recruiting public schools in the northeast, none of it matters.

[Disco Hippie]

Yep, we get better and more diverse students....while spending less money. Sounds like a real lose lose to me.

And our national ranking gets worse and worse.  If we remain on the current trajectory, we'll be in the 120s in another 3 or 4 years.   It seems clear the current administration could care less as long as they meet their enrollment goals.

[GGGG]

And our national ranking gets worse and worse.  If we remain on the current trajectory, we'll be in the 120s in another 3 or 4 years.   It seems clear the current administration could care less as long as they meet their enrollment goals.

From your lips to God's ears.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And our national ranking gets worse and worse.  If we remain on the current trajectory, we'll be in the 120s in another 3 or 4 years.   It seems clear the current administration could care less as long as they meet their enrollment goals.

Thank goodness the bolded is true.

Also look closer at the rankings. They changed the metrics on how they measured graduation rates. We dropped from 48th in that category to 70th. I think that is what accounts for our four spot drop from last year. It was a change in metrics, not anything that Marquette did.

[Tugg Speedman]

You're not completely wrong, but he's more right than you are. If that makes sense.

 I understand what you're saying and don't disagree with you.

[Tugg Speedman]

Thank goodness the bolded is true.

Also look closer at the rankings. They changed the metrics on how they measured graduation rates. We dropped from 48th in that category to 70th. I think that is what accounts for our four spot drop from last year. It was a change in metrics, not anything that Marquette did.

Also in 2013 when their stated goal was the top quarter of the us news ranking.  Then the national university list had 200 schools meaning they were shooting for top 50.  The 2018 ranking has 311 schools in the national university ranking, so now that is 78th.

Combine these two factors and MU might not be doing worse.

[Tugg Speedman]

I don't understand why they're so focused on recruiting at Jesuit high schools.    They're always going to have that constituency but the type of high school the incoming freshman class comes from shouldn't be relevant.  Perhaps if they cast a wider net and spent 1/4 of as much time recruiting good students from great public schools, as they do recruiting students from Jesuit high school's and other Catholic high schools, the number of applications wouldn't have decreased from 25K to 13.5K two years ago and the acceptance rate wouldn't have increased from 65% to 84% in that same time period.   There are a hell of a lot more students in public high schools than private, let alone Jesuit high schools, and at least in the region where I live most public high schools are significantly better than their private / catholic cohorts.

They addressed this ...

In 2017 MU got 75% of its students from three states, Illinois (42%), Wisconsin (31%) and Minnesota (4%).  California was fourth at 3%.

They showed a bunch of demographic trends in those states in over the next 10 years the Catholic high school population as well as the overall populations are going to be declining rapidly. So MU is making a push towards recruiting kids of color  in the Midwest as opposed to going more geographically wider.   

Admissions hired two more recruiters for the Midwest to focus on schools with large minority populations, especially Hispanic.   They are developing A relationship with the Cristo Rey network of Catholic schools.

They also laid out some statistics from the other 27 Jesuit universities and noted that MU is actually doing better than most. Because MU's average ACT score an average GPA is going up every year while meeting their enrollment goals.  They said many of Jesuit universities are struggling in this area.

[Disco Hippie]

They addressed this ...

In 2017 MU got 75% of its students from three states, Illinois (42%), Wisconsin (31%) and Minnesota (4%).  California was fourth at 3%.

They showed a bunch of demographic trends in those states in over the next 10 years the Catholic high school population as well as the overall populations are going to be declining rapidly. So MU is making a push towards recruiting kids of color  in the Midwest as opposed to going more geographically wider.   

Admissions hired two more recruiters for the Midwest to focus on schools with large minority populations, especially Hispanic.   They are developing A relationship with the Cristo Rey network of Catholic schools.

They also laid out some statistics from the other 27 Jesuit universities and noted that MU is actually doing better than most. Because MU's average ACT score an average GPA is going up every year while meeting their enrollment goals.  They said many of Jesuit universities are struggling in this area.

So let me get this straight.......both the Catholic and high school populations in those states are declining rapidly,  therefore they're doubling down on recruiting kids of color who although admittedly are a  rapidly increasing minority, are nevertheless still a minority at this point in time.  I get that demographic trends indicate they will be the majority in the next five to ten years, but at the end of the day it's still a declining market.

Look I applaud the University's diversity efforts and if they can make a college education more accessible to students  from far less fortunate backgrounds than most of us came from while simultaneously increasing the avg test score and GPA of the incoming class that's great but if the tradeoff means we have to accept 84% of every applicant who applies, all of the other desirable metrics are canceled out as a result of our high acceptance rate and Marquette University will never be taken seriously by the northeastern academic elite who set the higher education agenda in this country and who have the most influence over the US News metrics.  I don't like it any more than you guys do but because I live out here, I accept it as the way things are. 

Most of you can't see what's happening from my perspective because the Marquette brand is still very strong and well respected in Wisconsin and Illinois.  Unfortunately it is declining here will continue to as long as they remain on this current path.  If they're comfortable being a regional school I guess that's okay.  I know MU is considered a National University in the sense that they meet the esoteric academic criteria as defined by US News & World Report, but to me a true National University is one which the undergraduate student body comes from as wide a geographic footprint as possible.  Surely there are other east coast alums on this board who share my point of view. 

[GGGG]

Marquette University will never be taken seriously by the northeastern academic elite

Look, you just need to understand that this isn't a priority for Marquette.  You may disagree with them, but it clearly isn't where they are going to invest resources.

who set the higher education agenda in this country

LOL what?  What exact "agenda" do the northeastern elites set?  I have worked in higher education my entire career and never had a conversation along the lines of "huh...I wonder what the northeastern elites think?"  You are being as provincial as you claim midwesterners are when you say that.

I don't like it any more than you guys do but because I live out here, I accept it as the way things are.

Well you should also then accept that Marquette doesn't really care in a relative manner.  They aren't going to artificially jack up a bad statistic just to satisfy people from 1,000 miles away. 

Really if Marquette succeeds doing things this way, why do you care?

[warriorchick]

Really if Marquette succeeds doing things this way, why do you care?

Apparently, when he tells his elitist friends that he went to Marquette, he wants them  to be more impressed than they currently are.

[Tugg Speedman]

Yeah but if you're not recruiting public schools in the northeast, none of it matters.

If MU's problem is declining population in the Midwest, why is the solution to recruit the northeast, a place with an even larger declining population?  Hate to break it to you, the northeast is Boston, NYC and a bunch of people strung out on opioids.

If they were to expand beyond the Midwest, the west and southwest is the place to go.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If MU's problem is declining population in the Midwest, why is the solution to recruit the northeast, a place with an even larger declining population?  Hate to break it to you, the northeast is Boston, NYC and a bunch of people strung out on opioids.

If they were to expand beyond the Midwest, the west and southwest is the place to go.

Here are two sources with facts and figures in case that matters to anyone anymore.

https://www.census.gov/popclock/data_tables.php?component=growth

https://www.statnews.com/2017/04/25/opioid-deaths-map/

[GGGG]

Right.  The midwest isn't declining by any means.  There are still plenty of people here.

[Disco Hippie]

Apparently, when he tells his elitist friends that he went to Marquette, he wants them  to be more impressed than they currently are.

On the rare occasions I have those types of conversations, my job is interesting and impressive enough that college attendance doesn't usually come up.   I would very much like for future generations of MU grads to have the same level of access to similar jobs in the future.  Forgive me for caring so much about the perception of our mutual alma mater's brand.

[Disco Hippie]

If MU's problem is declining population in the Midwest, why is the solution to recruit the northeast, a place with an even larger declining population?  Hate to break it to you, the northeast is Boston, NYC and a bunch of people strung out on opioids.

If they were to expand beyond the Midwest, the west and southwest is the place to go.

Not saying their solution should be to focus on the Northeast specifically.  I think they should cast as wide a net as possible but if the demo trends point to Southwest and West, they should absolutely devote more resources there.
My frustration is that they focus too much on "catholic" high schools regardless of the region which is a relatively small market.  Not saying they should ignore them, but I think they put way too much emphasis there.

[GGGG]

Not saying their solution should be to focus on the Northeast specifically.  I think they should cast as wide a net as possible but if the demo trends point to Southwest and West, they should absolutely devote more resources there.
My frustration is that they focus too much on "catholic" high schools regardless of the region which is a relatively small market.  Not saying they should ignore them, but I think they put way too much emphasis there.

They shouldn't focus on students that are more likely to enroll? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I find it funny that universities are routinely criticized for bloated budgets,  unnecessary bureaucracy, and inefficiency....but these rankings punish schools who use an efficient recruiting strategy.

[GooooMarquette]

On the rare occasions I have those types of conversations, my job is interesting and impressive enough that college attendance doesn't usually come up.   I would very much like for future generations of MU grads to have the same level of access to similar jobs in the future.  Forgive me for caring so much about the perception of our mutual alma mater's brand.

I'm pretty sure most of us here care about the perception of MU's brand.  But if the ACTs and GPAs of the incoming class are increasing regularly, it seems MU's strategy is working fine in that regard.

[warriorchick]

I'm pretty sure most of us here care about the perception of MU's brand.  But if the ACTs and GPAs of the incoming class are increasing regularly, it seems MU's strategy is working fine in that regard.

No one here has mentioned that Marquette is near the top of the list in USNWR's list of "A+ schools for B students". The In my mind, it's much more admirable to be able to provide an excellent education to non-elite students. It is way easier to have excellent outcomes when you only accept the cream of the crop to begin with.