New facility questions

[dgies9156]

A couple of general thoughts on this:

1) The MECCA and the Bradley Center are a closer walk to the housing at MU than are most Big 10 Athletic Facilities. Sure, neither is on campus but the brisk winter trudge down to the center is an invigorating start to a wonderful basketball season. Same for the Foxconn Centre when it opens a year from now.

2) Yes, I know, they have buses now. Wimps.

3) Of course the Bucks will play hardball. Wouldn't you? It's their arena. The State of Wisconsin gave most of it to them fair and square!

4) Building an arena on campus is stupid. When we are Top 10 again, we'll fill Foxconn like we used to fill the MECCA. I doubt we could replicate that on campus. I know I would never donate for it -- Marquette has too many other more compelling needs, including scholarships.

[jsglow]

Really? Who has the upper hand? Just where would MU play IF they could not reach a deal? Seems to me MU needs a home and the Bucks know it. MU would have a huge problem if a deal is not reached.

The Bucks certainly had an advantage but it's not unlimited.  Remember that public money went into this.  I think it was more about the way negotiations went in the past (super easy) relative to now.

Plus folks, just because it took awhile don't assume that the Bucks were holding out for some completely unreasonable number.

One more thing, the elasticity of Marquette ticket demand isn't driven by what the Bucks charge in rent.  Sure MU would like to pass it all along to the customers but it might not be able to and might have to absorb some of that as a budget expense just like those free pint glasses.  MU will charge what it charges for tickets because it believes that price will maximize its revenue.  If they double the price and the season ticket base drops to 7,000, heads will roll before the season even starts.  Let's give 'em some credit for figuring this all out in the next 10 months.

[We R Final Four]

No we couldn't.  We have 10,000+ season ticket holders.  What, you get a letter saying STAY HOME?

Doesn't Nova have more than 6K STHs? What do they do for games at the Pavilion?
Not sure on GT or Memphis--would bet not.

[GooooMarquette]

Yeah, I thought I was the only one who didn't follow this logic.

You aren't.  His logic was completely backward.

[jsglow]

Doesn't Nova have more than 6K STHs? What do they do for games at the Pavilion?
Not sure on GT or Memphis--would bet not.

Nova's attendance last year was 8,119 per game, 59th in the country.  Now they might fully subscribe their STH allotment at the capacity of the Pavilion but no, they don't have a full season ticket base that exceeds that building.

Frankly, THAT could become a problem for someone like Nova.  They could realistically face a decision where they were forced to abandon their on campus facility if demand got too high.  Think about that for a moment.

[GooooMarquette]

Nova's attendance last year was 8,119 per game, 59th in the country.  Now they might fully subscribe their STH allotment at the capacity of the Pavilion but no, they don't have a full season ticket base that exceeds that building.

Frankly, THAT could become a problem for someone like Nova.  They could realistically face a decision where they were forced to abandon their on campus facility if demand got too high.  Think about that for a moment.

Uhhh...you don't think Duke could sell twice as many season tickets as Cameron holds?  Teams adjust prices based on supply and demand.

If MU had a viable on-campus facility, they'd just price the full-season package to accommodate the supply/demand variables.  People who didn't want to part with that kind of money could buy packages that just include games at the bigger arena.

[real chili 83]

A couple of general thoughts on this:

1) The MECCA and the Bradley Center are a closer walk to the housing at MU than are most Big 10 Athletic Facilities. Sure, neither is on campus but the brisk winter trudge down to the center is an invigorating start to a wonderful basketball season. Same for the Foxconn Centre when it opens a year from now.

2) Yes, I know, they have buses now. Wimps.

3) Of course the Bucks will play hardball. Wouldn't you? It's their arena. The State of Wisconsin gave most of it to them fair and square!

4) Building an arena on campus is stupid. When we are Top 10 again, we'll fill Foxconn like we used to fill the MECCA. I doubt we could replicate that on campus. I know I would never donate for it -- Marquette has too many other more compelling needs, including scholarships.

2.1) And no Hegarty's, Good Time Charlie's, or O'P's to stop off at for a few dozen liquid warm-ups.

[mu_hilltopper]

The Chaluparena wouldn't exist if it were not for (the presidential aspirations of) Gov. Walker, who did attend Marquette for 3.5 years.   One would hope someone at MU tugged on his sport coat and mentioned the whole leasing thing to him.

[We R Final Four]

Nova's attendance last year was 8,119 per game, 59th in the country.  Now they might fully subscribe their STH allotment at the capacity of the Pavilion but no, they don't have a full season ticket base that exceeds that building.

Frankly, THAT could become a problem for someone like Nova.  They could realistically face a decision where they were forced to abandon their on campus facility if demand got too high.  Think about that for a moment.

8119 STHs?

[brewcity77]

Nova's attendance last year was 8,119 per game, 59th in the country.  Now they might fully subscribe their STH allotment at the capacity of the Pavilion but no, they don't have a full season ticket base that exceeds that building.

Frankly, THAT could become a problem for someone like Nova.  They could realistically face a decision where they were forced to abandon their on campus facility if demand got too high.  Think about that for a moment.

Well...I'm not sure about this. First, the Pavilion seats 6,500. So they are drawing more fans per game than the Pavilion seats. Second, Villanova has a wait-list for Season Tickets. Fans that desire seats have to pay $50 per year to stay on the wait list and when a slot opens up, you are limited to two seats.

It looks like there is another package that gets you tickets to Wells-Fargo games only. It is non-renewable (so you purchase it annually with no carryover) and doesn't have anything to do with actually being a full Season Ticket Holder.

Based on that, I'd guess 'Nova does have STHs fully selling out the Pavilion and fans that can't get off the wait list get to purchase the more limited Wells Fargo package until their name gets called.

[Herman Cain]

Well...I'm not sure about this. First, the Pavilion seats 6,500. So they are drawing more fans per game than the Pavilion seats. Second, Villanova has a wait-list for Season Tickets. Fans that desire seats have to pay $50 per year to stay on the wait list and when a slot opens up, you are limited to two seats.

It looks like there is another package that gets you tickets to Wells-Fargo games only. It is non-renewable (so you purchase it annually with no carryover) and doesn't have anything to do with actually being a full Season Ticket Holder.

Based on that, I'd guess 'Nova does have STHs fully selling out the Pavilion and fans that can't get off the wait list get to purchase the more limited Wells Fargo package until their name gets called.

Villanova is doing a $60 million renovation of the Pavilion this year and they will be playing their games at Wells Fargo . They are expected to return to Pavilion next year.

[jsglow]

Well...I'm not sure about this. First, the Pavilion seats 6,500. So they are drawing more fans per game than the Pavilion seats. Second, Villanova has a wait-list for Season Tickets. Fans that desire seats have to pay $50 per year to stay on the wait list and when a slot opens up, you are limited to two seats.

It looks like there is another package that gets you tickets to Wells-Fargo games only. It is non-renewable (so you purchase it annually with no carryover) and doesn't have anything to do with actually being a full Season Ticket Holder.

Based on that, I'd guess 'Nova does have STHs fully selling out the Pavilion and fans that can't get off the wait list get to purchase the more limited Wells Fargo package until their name gets called.

Do the math.  6500 at every Pavilion game and then 15,000+ at the handful at the 76ers joint equals 8119.  Now perhaps they have two packages but the bottom line is that MU isn't playing any season ticket games in a 6,500 seat arena.  When we had that fill in game a couple years back that was a separate ticket and NOT part of any ST package.

[brewcity77]

Do the math.  6500 at every Pavilion game and then 15,000+ at the handful at the 76ers joint equals 8119.  Now perhaps they have two packages but the bottom line is that MU isn't playing any season ticket games in a 6,500 seat arena.  When we had that fill in game a couple years back that was a separate ticket and NOT part of any ST package.

I completely agree we aren't building any 6,500 seat arena. I think if we did an on-campus arena like that, it would have to be at least 8,000 and probably more like 10,000. Though if they limited STHs to only 2 seats per account, it could make a smaller number more reasonable.

Villanova played 15 games last year. Drew 8,119. 11 of those were at the Pavilion, 4 were at Wells-Fargo. If they were at capacity for every Pavilion game, that means they averaged 12,571 at Wells-Fargo. Seems like a fairly reasonable figure. I think it's perfectly possible, even likely that they exceed the STH base of the Pavilion with full STHs there and partial STHs overflowing to the few games they play at Wells-Fargo.

[dgies9156]

I completely agree we aren't building any 6,500 seat arena. I think if we did an on-campus arena like that, it would have to be at least 8,000 and probably more like 10,000.

Neve, ever, never!

We drew 10,980 back when we played at the Arena. Every night.

Geez, sounds like DePaul and its new Lenti-Ponsetto Centre near McCormick Place (yes, I know that is not on campus).

P-L-E-A-S-E!!!!!!!!

If the team is any good, we will draw about 16,000 for conference games and 12,000 to 16,000 for non-cons, depending on how good the opponent is. The notion that we can slide backward to a small arena -- notwithstanding Duke -- is an admission that we never again will be among College Basketball's elite. I don't buy it.

Cut the deal with the Bucks and move on.

[muwarrior69]

Villanova is doing a $60 million renovation of the Pavilion this year and they will be playing their games at Wells Fargo . They are expected to return to Pavilion next year.

...with no increase in seating capacity. Go figure, for a very recent NC title.

[jsglow]

...with no increase in seating capacity. Go figure, for a very recent NC title.

Dukies are rich.  They can throw away money for no reason.  Not saying a renovation isn't warranted.

[brewcity77]

Neve, ever, never!

We drew 10,980 back when we played at the Arena. Every night.

It's a delicate balance. If you have a sold out arena there will actually be demand for every game, including non-con. Play 10-12 on campus and 6 at the Silk Exotic Entertainment Center and we can still average over 12k per game.

For Marquette, they would be able to keep all home revenues while also having the opportunity to play in Milwaukee when they host games at the Silk.

Raising money would be a consideration. A 10,000 seat venue would probably cost $50-60M, which is significant but not an impossible sum.

There are pros and cons. I don't expect Marquette to go in that direction, but I certainly wouldn't oppose it.

[GGGG]

It's a delicate balance. If you have a sold out arena there will actually be demand for every game, including non-con. Play 10-12 on campus and 6 at the Silk Exotic Entertainment Center and we can still average over 12k per game.

For Marquette, they would be able to keep all home revenues while also having the opportunity to play in Milwaukee when they host games at the Silk.

Raising money would be a consideration. A 10,000 seat venue would probably cost $50-60M, which is significant but not an impossible sum.

There are pros and cons. I don't expect Marquette to go in that direction, but I certainly wouldn't oppose it.

It's more costly than that when you consider the potential fund-raising opportunity cost.  Presumably many of those donors would also have given their money elsewhere at the University if asked.

Now if you could find a donor that would cover 100%, including a healthy endowment for maintenance, and that was the ONLY thing they were interested in, it would be one thing.  And I would make it about 11,000 or so.  Attendance isn't everything.  Atmosphere makes a difference too. 

[dgies9156]

Gang, the issue is that basketball is a unifying force for the Marquette faithful. The way football is at many D1/Power 5 conference schools.

If we went to a 10,000 seat arena, we would sell out every night, mostly with season tickets. The cost for an alum who sought to come a couple of times a year (from Chicago, Green Bay or Madison) would be ridiculous and you'd just push more fans to television.

Since the Bradley Center opened in 1986, we've been a strong draw and in recent years been among the top draws in college basketball. We need to honor that tradition among our alums and our community.

[brewcity77]

Since the Bradley Center opened in 1986, we've been a strong draw and in recent years been among the top draws in college basketball. We need to honor that tradition among our alums and our community.

1988. We're a big draw, but let's be honest, those games when we've got less than 5,000 fans in the BC makes it look like a ghost town.

As more fans make the decision to stay home, it may eventually be more advantageous for Marquette to have its own facility that it can capitalize on financially while also allowing for potential NCAA home court advantage every 3-4 years.

Extra unfilled seats just for the sake of it isn't a benefit. And smaller, more intimate, snakepit type arenas can be a lot of fun.

[GGGG]

I think having a full, 10,000 seat arena is preferable to 12,000 fans in a 18,000 seat arena...assuming you could make it revenue neutral.

[dgies9156]

1988. We're a big draw, but let's be honest, those games when we've got less than 5,000 fans in the BC makes it look like a ghost town.

As more fans make the decision to stay home, it may eventually be more advantageous for Marquette to have its own facility that it can capitalize on financially while also allowing for potential NCAA home court advantage every 3-4 years.

Extra unfilled seats just for the sake of it isn't a benefit. And smaller, more intimate, snakepit type arenas can be a lot of fun.

Schedule properly and put an exciting team on the court and that does not happen!

Full disclosure: As a kid I spent a lot of time at Vanderbilt's Memorial Gym. Huge -- 15,861 seats -- and a snake pit to end all snake pits. And the faithful came, just like they do at Marquette!

[Herman Cain]

...with no increase in seating capacity. Go figure, for a very recent NC title.

They said it would cost 125 Million to increase capacity. They had a hard time raising the 60 for the renovations.

[GooooMarquette]

I think having a full, 10,000 seat arena is preferable to 12,000 fans in a 18,000 seat arena...assuming you could make it revenue neutral.

I have always felt that way too.  Back in C-USA days, I saw MU play at UAB Arena (8,500) and the crowd was awesome.  They played a few games at the Birmingham-Jefferson Civic Center (17,500), but rarely drew well enough to justify it.  I've always thought our ideal size would be in the 10,000-12,000 seat range.

I get that that isn't really an option for MU, but it'd be cool.

[dgies9156]

I have always felt that way too.  Back in C-USA days, I saw MU play at UAB Arena (8,500) and the crowd was awesome.  They played a few games at the Birmingham-Jefferson Civic Center (17,500), but rarely drew well enough to justify it.  I've always thought our ideal size would be in the 10,000-12,000 seat range.

I get that that isn't really an option for MU, but it'd be cool.

We aren't UAB.

We don't plan for arenas for the 10,000 that show up for the Grambling game. We build for the 15,500+ who show for most Big East games. Or the 17,000 who show up for the Badgers, Georgia, Purdue and most other Big 10 teams that come to Milwaukee.

We plan for the notion that we're going to have a great team and that we're going to be a pit with 16,000 to 17,000 rabid fans. Hopefully, we're building for a time when we again win 40, 50 and even 60+ games in a row at home (it's possible). We'll need the seats then. Period.