Why Illinois Is In Trouble - 63,000 Public Employees With $100,000+ Salaries

[Tugg Speedman]

Why Illinois Is In Trouble - 63,000 Public Employees With $100,000+ Salaries Cost Taxpayers $10B

www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2017/07/25/why-illinois-is-in-trouble-63000-public-employees-with-100000-salaries-cost-taxpayers-10b/#13aae7131141

Who makes more than $100k/year?
20,295 teachers and school administrators
10,676 rank-and-file workers and managers in Chicago
9,567 college and university employees
8,640 State of Illinois employees
8,817 small town city and village employees – including 84 municipal managers out-earning every U.S. governor at $180,000.

In total, there is roughly $12 billion in cash compensation flowing to six-figure government workers when counting the 9,031 federal employees based in Illinois.  Or, this is one-third of the State's annual budget.

Combined the salaries of these 9,000 employees, the state's Medicaid outlays (to 25% of the state's population), and pension contributions (40% no longer live in Illinois), and these three items total over 75% of the state's $36 billion budget passed earlier this month.

[warriorchick]

The value of my home goes down every time you post one of these articles. 

[Tugg Speedman]

The value of my home goes down every time you post one of these articles. 

So does mine

[Pakuni]

In the meantime, median home sale prices in the Chicago area rose 6 percent last year. better than the national average.
Hate when facts disrupt the narrative.

Speaking of facts, how factual is an article about public employees' salaries when a significant portion of the people they're including here are retired?

[Lennys Tap]

In the meantime, median home sale prices in the Chicago area rose 6 percent last year. better than the national average.
Hate when facts disrupt the narrative.

I sold my home in one of the top school districts in Illinois for 25% less than it was worth in 2006. Maybe there was a 6% bump in the last year but in the last 10 years Illinois has to be at or near the bottom of the heap.

[buckchuckler]

In the meantime, median home sale prices in the Chicago area rose 6 percent last year. better than the national average.
Hate when facts disrupt the narrative.

Speaking of facts, how factual is an article about public employees' salaries when a significant portion of the people they're including here are retired?

How does that disrupt the narrative?  What is the narrative?  It isn't a made up story that Illinois is in terrible financial state. 

[Pakuni]

How does that disrupt the narrative?  What is the narrative?  It isn't a made up story that Illinois is in terrible financial state.

It's a made up narrative that their property values are falling.
Illinois is in a terrible financial state. Illinois' terrible financial state is not making the Land of Lincoln the wasteland that some here would have you believe, especially for those who aren't poor or disabled (the people who truly are bearing the brunt of the state's fiscal mismanagement).

[Pakuni]

I sold my home in one of the top school districts in Illinois for 25% less than it was worth in 2006. Maybe there was a 6% bump in the last year but in the last 10 years Illinois has to be at or near the bottom of the heap.

So you bought an overvalued house near the peak of the housing bubble (no insult intended, nearly all houses were overvalued then) and then sold it and took a loss.
Isn't that a relatively common experience for those who bought when you did and sold when you did, regardless of where?

[🏀]

So you bought an overvalued house near the peak of the housing bubble (no insult intended, nearly all houses were overvalued then) and then sold it and took a loss.
Isn't that a relatively common experience for those who bought when you did and sold when you did, regardless of where?

Yahtzee. I paid to get out of my bad purchase.

[Tugg Speedman]

In the meantime, median home sale prices in the Chicago area rose 6 percent last year. better than the national average.
Hate when facts disrupt the narrative.

Speaking of facts, how factual is an article about public employees' salaries when a significant portion of the people they're including here are retired?

Narrowly selected facts ....

Since the end of the great recession, June 2009.  National home prices are up 40%.  Chicago area is up 11%



Add to this that Illinois has the highest tax burden in the country

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416/

and the largest population decline in the country

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-illinois-population-decline-met-20161220-story.html

To suggest that the answer is higher taxes to drive more people out of the state is the exact wrong thing to do, and exactly why the state is spiraling out of control.


Oh, and the fact that the state is paying six figure benefits to retirees in Florida is even worse.  At least current employees are producing something now (they work now) and live in the state (and presumably spend most of their grotesque salaries here).  Retirees are a pure drag with no current benefit to the state. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

We enjoyed your vacation Heisey!

[Tugg Speedman]

We enjoyed your vacation Heisey!

I did too ... and will be on another one next week!

You win twice.

[Pakuni]

Interesting chart, but it doesn't disprove what I said, or prove what you said. In fact, it disproves your claim that your home values are falling. They're rising. And last year they likely rose more than the national average.

As for suggesting " that the answer is higher taxes to drive more people out of the state" ... who here suggested that?

As for the out-of-state pensioners ... yep, that sucks. It's also a moot  point, given that the Constitution and Supreme Court says nothing can be done about it.

[Tugg Speedman]

Interesting chart, but it doesn't disprove what I said, or prove what you said. In fact, it disproves your claim that your home values are falling. They're rising. And last year they likely rose more than the national average.

As for suggesting " that the answer is higher taxes to drive more people out of the state" ... who here suggested that?

As for the out-of-state pensioners ... yep, that sucks. It's also a moot  point, given that the Constitution and Supreme Court says nothing can be done about it.

No you're right the state had a better year than nationally, but like I said, it is a narrowly selected fact that means nothing.

One option left ... a constitutional amendment ... 3/5 house, 3/5 senate, and state wide referendum with 60%.

Not saying that is going to happen soon.  But when the state is desperate enough, that amendment will take everything away from those retirees as people here will be desperate. 

Retirees should agree to a little less now instead of risking it all later.

[GGGG]

No you're right the state had a better year than nationally, but like I said, it is a narrowly selected fact that means nothing.

One option left ... a constitutional amendment ... 3/5 house, 3/5 senate, and state wide referendum with 60%.

Not saying that is going to happen soon.  But when the state is desperate enough, that amendment will take everything away from those retirees as people here will be desperate. 

Retirees should agree to a little less now instead of risking it all later.

Nope.  Not the retirees fault.  The taxpayers didn't live up to their obligations earlier.  They should do so now.

[Pakuni]

No you're right the state had a better year than nationally, but like I said, it is a narrowly selected fact that means nothing.

Well, when you say home values are falling, and the most recent data shows they're rising better than the national average, then they do actually mean something.
If you had claimed home values were lagging over the past eight years, you'd be correct. But you said they were falling.

One option left ... a constitutional amendment ... 3/5 house, 3/5 senate, and state wide referendum with 60%.

That's exceptionally unlikely in a state where more than 40 percent of the population - and roughly the same percent of the legislature -  lives in Cook County.
The real solution that doesn't get talked about is re-amortizing the debt. Won't solve everything but it would go a long way. And, unlike the other "solutions," it's feasible and constitutional.

[PBRme]

Nope.  Not the retirees fault.  The taxpayers didn't live up to their obligations earlier.  They should do so now.

I'd agree if they were the same taxpayers.  Unfortunately the previous two generations of voters elected individuals that could not make the hard choices.  Now or in the near future when the hard choices have to be made your solution is to punish the current and future taxpayers twice.  They get higher taxes to support the bad decisions of the previous generation and lower services as all the money goes  to service debt, pensions, waste, and much lower services.  What the previous generations (voters and politicians) did by creating this situation is immoral. 

They signed up for debt they were never going to pay back but their children will in a lower standard of living.  And we are doing the same to our children at a National level.

[Pakuni]

Nope.  Not the retirees fault.  The taxpayers didn't live up to their obligations earlier.  They should do so now.

Well, in fairness, the taxpayers did live up to their obligations. They paid their taxes.
It was the legislators and governors, of both parties, who took those tax dollars and put them where they didn't belong, creating this mess.

That said, it's unfair and unconstitutional to expect retirees to surrender part of what they lawfully earned and was promised to them because some other people don't want to find a legal and, yes, difficult solution.

[Pakuni]

I'd agree if they were the same taxpayers.  Unfortunately the previous two generations of voters elected individuals that could not make the hard choices.  Now or in the near future when the hard choices have to be made your solution is to punish the current and future taxpayers twice.  They get higher taxes to support the bad decisions of the previous generation and lower services as all the money goes  to service debt, pensions, waste, and much lower services.  What the previous generations (voters and politicians) did by creating this situation is immoral. 

They signed up for debt they were never going to pay back but their children will in a lower standard of living.  And we are doing the same to our children at a National level.

You're 100 percent right about prior legislatures and administrations avoiding the hard choices  ... which would have been tax increases and an end to earmarks in the 1990s that, let's face it, the state's conservatives would have fought tooth-and--nail.

But at the same time, demanding that retirees be the ones who sacrifice here is not only illegal, it's unfair. They upheld their end of the bargain.
It's unfortunate, but yes, the younger generations will have the deal with this. 

[GGGG]

I'd agree if they were the same taxpayers.  Unfortunately the previous two generations of voters elected individuals that could not make the hard choices.  Now or in the near future when the hard choices have to be made your solution is to punish the current and future taxpayers twice.  They get higher taxes to support the bad decisions of the previous generation and lower services as all the money goes  to service debt, pensions, waste, and much lower services.  What the previous generations (voters and politicians) did by creating this situation is immoral. 

They signed up for debt they were never going to pay back but their children will in a lower standard of living.  And we are doing the same to our children at a National level.

That's how it works.  Taxpayers have to live with the decisions of previous generations, positive or negative.

[warriorchick]

Speaking of facts, how factual is an article about public employees' salaries when a significant portion of the people they're including here are retired?

That is even worse. In Illinois, pensions are exempt from state tax. Every else gets a huge tax increase to pay out income that will never be taxed itself on a state level.

[buckchuckler]

It's a made up narrative that their property values are falling.
Illinois is in a terrible financial state. Illinois' terrible financial state is not making the Land of Lincoln the wasteland that some here would have you believe, especially for those who aren't poor or disabled (the people who truly are bearing the brunt of the state's fiscal mismanagement).

Was that part of this story?

[Lennys Tap]

So you bought an overvalued house near the peak of the housing bubble (no insult intended, nearly all houses were overvalued then) and then sold it and took a loss.
Isn't that a relatively common experience for those who bought when you did and sold when you did, regardless of where?

No, I bought the house 34 years ago and made a big profit when I sold. The point was that in one of the most desired school districts in Illinois my house was still 25% below its peak price almost 10 years after the crash. How many desired neighborhoods in how many states can say that? If the answer isn't zero it's close to zero.

[Pakuni]

That is even worse. In Illinois, pensions are exempt from state tax. Every else gets a huge tax increase to pay out income that will never be taxed itself on a state level.

Illinois also doesn't tax Social Security (for which teachers are not eligible), IRAs, 401Ks or any other retirement income.

[warriorchick]

Illinois also doesn't tax Social Security (for which teachers are not eligible), IRAs, 401Ks or any other retirement income.

Maybe they should.