CTE in 99% of former NFL players studied...

[GooooMarquette]

I know the NFL is a money machine and many kids see it as their way out...but it seems the price is pretty high....

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health/cte-nfl-players-brains-study/index.html

[Jockey]

Not a perfect study since the guys who they studied were already thought to have suffered from the disease.

However, this is more evidence of the dangers of football. Not a surprise to anyone. Simple common sense says that if you keep bashing your head into a wall, things inside your head will not react well..

[Benny B]

Certainly the bias needs to be considered for the former NFL and college players, but I'm wondering just how applicable is bias to the high school players?  I didn't go through all of the appendices, but I'm mostly curious as to what the median age at death was of the former HS players and when their symptoms first arose.

Though too small of a sample size to start sounding alarms, I would still think 3 of 14 is something worthy of further research/investigation.

[tower912]

The reason I am not letting my 10 year old play football. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Dave Duerson has forever changed my enjoyment of football.

[MerrittsMustache]

Before we jump to too many conclusions about football, shouldn't similar studies be done on brains of people who did not play football at any level? CTE is not necessarily specific to football or other contact sports. Unfortunately, that research simply hasn't been done yet and football has been labeled "the bad guy" without a complete study.

[GGGG]

Before we jump to too many conclusions about football, shouldn't similar studies be done on brains of people who did not play football at any level? CTE is not necessarily specific to football or other contact sports. Unfortunately, that research simply hasn't been done yet and football has been labeled "the bad guy" without a complete study.

From the NYT article on the study:

"About 1,300 former players have died since the B.U. group began examining brains. So even if every one of the other 1,200 players had tested negative — which even the heartiest skeptics would agree could not possibly be the case — the minimum C.T.E. prevalence would be close to 9 percent, vastly higher than in the general population."

[Pakuni]

I don't think it should alarm or surprise anyone that men who receive literally thousands of blows to the head in their lifetimes suffer some level of brain damage as a consequence.
What I'm more interested in knowing - and what I haven't seen in any significant way - is whether and to what degree all those who are afflicted display symptoms.

In other words, of these 110 former players' brains that showed signs of CTE, how many of them showed signs of it, and how?
Is CTE something one can have asymptomatically? Is there a wide variation of the symptoms ... i.e. one guys becomes suffers horribly while the next gets an occasional headache or is a little more forgetful?
It appears those who play in the NFL are likely to suffer some braim impacts, but obviously not every former player becomes Dave Duerson or Junior Seau or Mike Wagner. Why, and what, if anything short of turning the NFL into a two-hand touch league, can be done to prevent it from happening.
Hopefully that's the next frontier scientists tackle (no pun intended) with this disease.

[GooooMarquette]

I don't think it should alarm or surprise anyone that men who receive literally thousands of blows to the head in their lifetimes suffer some level of brain damage as a consequence.
What I'm more interested in knowing - and what I haven't seen in any significant way - is whether and to what degree all those who are afflicted display symptoms.

In other words, of these 110 former players' brains that showed signs of CTE, how many of them showed signs of it, and how?
Is CTE something one can have asymptomatically? Is there a wide variation of the symptoms ... i.e. one guys becomes suffers horribly while the next gets an occasional headache or is a little more forgetful?
It appears those who play in the NFL are likely to suffer some braim impacts, but obviously not every former player becomes Dave Duerson or Junior Seau or Mike Wagner. Why, and what, if anything short of turning the NFL into a two-hand touch league, can be done to prevent it from happening.
Hopefully that's the next frontier scientists tackle (no pun intended) with this disease.

 I would be pretty surprised if someone isn't already planning that type of study. If family members gave consent for autopsies to test for CTE, I'm guessing they would give interviews and allow reviews of the players' medical records for signs of the illness.

[MerrittsMustache]

From the NYT article on the study:

"About 1,300 former players have died since the B.U. group began examining brains. So even if every one of the other 1,200 players had tested negative — which even the heartiest skeptics would agree could not possibly be the case — the minimum C.T.E. prevalence would be close to 9 percent, vastly higher than in the general population."

What's the prevalence among the general population?

[GGGG]

What's the prevalence among the general population?

No idea.

[Benny B]

What's the prevalence among the general population?

8% is was the general population percentage Guskiewicz was using in his earlier work, however, in that case, general population simply excluded professional football players, i.e. that 8% would have included former college and high school players who never played professionally.

Taken from a NIH article in 2014 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255271/):

As CTE research has a particular ability to be misunderstood by the lay public and sensationalized in the media, caution needs to be exercised when discussing results of scientific studies and generalizing the results to the population as a whole. Many individuals have some history of head impacts incurred through sports participation or other activities [53]. However, the pathophysiological mechanism linking this initial trauma, whether concussive or subconcussive, to later-life CTE pathology has yet to be elucidated. Furthermore, without a more complete understanding of the incidence, prevalence, and possible risk factors that lead to the development of CTE, it is impossible for the general population to accurately assess their risk of CTE. Unfortunately the popular media, which has reported on CTE because of its association with professional athletics, often does not present findings with the same accuracy, caution, or contextualization as the original peer-reviewed scientific publications. In order to avoid causing undue panic in individuals who have a history of concussions or other traumatic brain injuries, the scientific community and the media need to clearly address the considerable gaps that exist in our understanding of CTE [54].

In other words, it's nearly impossible to benchmark CTE in the general public because it's not a condition that's fully understood by the medical community and therefore not easily recognized by patients, their families, friends or physicians.  We need to do more elucidating on the matter.

[MerrittsMustache]

8% is was the general population percentage Guskiewicz was using in his earlier work, however, in that case, general population simply excluded professional football players, i.e. that 8% would have included former college and high school players who never played professionally.

Taken from a NIH article in 2014 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255271/):

In other words, it's nearly impossible to benchmark CTE in the general public because it's not a condition that's fully understood by the medical community and therefore not easily recognized by patients, their families, friends or physicians.  We need to do more elucidating on the matter.

Thanks, Benny!

[Pakuni]

In other words, it's nearly impossible to benchmark CTE in the general public because it's not a condition that's fully understood by the medical community and therefore not easily recognized by patients, their families, friends or physicians.  We need to do more elucidating on the matter.

Also, the only known way to test for CTE is postmortem, and in vast majority of deaths there's no autopsy, much less an autopsy that specifically looks for evidence of CTE.

[Jockey]

I don't think it should alarm or surprise anyone that men who receive literally thousands of blows to the head in their lifetimes suffer some level of brain damage as a consequence.
What I'm more interested in knowing - and what I haven't seen in any significant way - is whether and to what degree all those who are afflicted display symptoms.

In other words, of these 110 former players' brains that showed signs of CTE, how many of them showed signs of it, and how?
Is CTE something one can have asymptomatically? Is there a wide variation of the symptoms ... i.e. one guys becomes suffers horribly while the next gets an occasional headache or is a little more forgetful?
It appears those who play in the NFL are likely to suffer some braim impacts, but obviously not every former player becomes Dave Duerson or Junior Seau or Mike Wagner. Why, and what, if anything short of turning the NFL into a two-hand touch league, can be done to prevent it from happening.
Hopefully that's the next frontier scientists tackle (no pun intended) with this disease.

Luckily, this is finally being studied. As recently as 10 years ago, less that 50 cases of CTE had ever been studied pathologically and published in medical literature. The NFL contributed to this lack of study by denying that repeated concussions could cause CTE (don't wanna slow down the money train to keep your employees alive). That is changing now as several studies are going on.
.

[Jockey]

8% is was the general population percentage Guskiewicz was using in his earlier work, however, in that case, general population simply excluded professional football players, i.e. that 8% would have included former college and high school players who never played professionally.

Taken from a NIH article in 2014 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255271/):

In other words, it's nearly impossible to benchmark CTE in the general public because it's not a condition that's fully understood by the medical community and therefore not easily recognized by patients, their families, friends or physicians.  We need to do more elucidating on the matter.

If it is nearly impossible to benchmark in the general public, then where does an 8% figure come from? My guess it is probably from a group seeking funding. Also it is not something the general public needs to be worried about.

The name of the disease is Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - in other words, repeated blows to the head. The vast majority of cases are athletes - the general public does not generally get hit in the head hundreds of times a year so there is no way 8% of people suffer from this. It is very limited in scope.

[Benny B]

If it is nearly impossible to benchmark in the general public, then where does an 8% figure come from? My guess it is probably from a group seeking funding. Also it is not something the general public needs to be worried about.

The name of the disease is Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - in other words, repeated blows to the head. The vast majority of cases are athletes - the general public does not generally get hit in the head hundreds of times a year so there is no way 8% of people suffer from this. It is very limited in scope.

Keep in mind the 8% would also include boxers, soccer players, wrestlers, mountain bikers, snowboarders, and Nicolas Cage.  I didn't dive into how that number was pegged, but I'm pretty sure they're being generous.  It's most likely less than 8%, but until they start digging into the brains of the general pop like they are with the NFL players, it's hard to say for sure.

[Pakuni]

If it is nearly impossible to benchmark in the general public, then where does an 8% figure come from? My guess it is probably from a group seeking funding. Also it is not something the general public needs to be worried about.

The name of the disease is Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - in other words, repeated blows to the head. The vast majority of cases are athletes - the general public does not generally get hit in the head hundreds of times a year so there is no way 8% of people suffer from this. It is very limited in scope.

From Harvard Medical School:

CTE has been observed in non-athletes who have experienced repetitive brain trauma, including people with epilepsy, developmentally disabled individuals with head banging, and victims of domestic violence or other physical abuse. More recently, CTE has been confirmed at autopsy in soldiers with histories of repetitive brain trauma returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Again, it's pretty much impossible to determine how much this occurs in the general public, because members of the general public typically aren't autopsied, and when they are, your typical pathologist isn't looking for - and really isn't trained to find - signs of CTE.

Also, the issue really shouldn't be whether CTE is present, but whether, when and how it's symptomatic.

[GooooMarquette]

Interesting career alternative....

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20170808/baltimore-ravens-offensive-lineman-john-urschel-retires-abruptly

[MerrittsMustache]

Interesting career alternative....

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20170808/baltimore-ravens-offensive-lineman-john-urschel-retires-abruptly

Good for him. If you can make a lucrative career out of something you love and it doesn't involve the risk of bodily harm, go for it! He's 26, made $1.5M in salary and (IIRC) he played 3 years so he's vested in the NFL's pension plan. I don't think he's going to end up being strapped for cash but he's got a good starting point.

[Jockey]

Considering that his brain is requirement #1 for his next job, this was a pretty wise decision.

[Galway Eagle]

I would be curious to see this study done in comparison to other high impact sports. Obviously sports like mama and boxing it's likely as prevalent or even more so but what about lacrosse or rugby or hockey?

[tower912]

I would be curious to see this study done in comparison to other high impact sports. Obviously sports like mama and boxing it's likely as prevalent or even more so but what about lacrosse or rugby or hockey?

Did not realize there was so many impacts to the head in mothering.

[MerrittsMustache]

I would be curious to see this study done in comparison to other high impact sports. Obviously sports like mama and boxing it's likely as prevalent or even more so but what about lacrosse or rugby or hockey?

There was a study a few years ago that found the second-highest concussion rate in high school sports was in girl's soccer (football was obviously first). I don't recall where any other sports fell on the list.

[Galway Eagle]

Did not realize there was so many impacts to the head in mothering.

I'm glad I'm able to spread the word

But more seriously I never thought I'd fall victim to autocorrect