minimum wage hikes(follow-up)...not so good

[MU82]

I'm gonna save chicos the trouble. He's gonna post Obamas comment about you can't put lipstick on a pig and say it was calling palin a pig because she referenced the difference between a hockey mom and pitbull being lipstick. He will ignore the fact that that's a fairly common expression to further his point. Then people will get frustrated and the thread will be locked.

Thanks.

[Jockey]

I'm sure you can find a safe space somewhere.  My guess is that you should try the Vikings trophy case.  You won't be bothered much.

Well done!!!!!!

[rocket surgeon]

Lots of good stuff in that post, but I'll add some comments.

I understand that "These people didn't make bad choices to get to poverty / born there" and "Yes, people in poverty do make bad decisions / help keep them in poverty" are slightly different sentiments, but the distinction is not overwhelming.   The point the right wants to make is that we are all given opportunities to help ourselves.  Public schools can be looked at as the largest anti-poverty investment ever made.  (Yet it's in a shameful state!)

I would suspect the idea that "the poor make bad choices at the same rate as others" does not have great data behind it.  What would be a truer statement is those in poverty have little margin for error in their bad choices, while others do.

I don't conscribe to your theory that no one can be judged, not the poor nor rich.  If you want to make poor choices and eff up your life, as long as you don't impact others with your dumbness, well, that's America for you.  But once you do impact others, bear a new child into the world without means, require assistance from others for food, housing, basic support, or enter the criminal justice system -- all of which the poor and non-poor do alike at different rates --  .. then yes, there's an amount of "judgement" that is natural and part of human nature. 

That may not be the society we want, it's the society we have.

ok "suck-up alert" is turned off

  this is a great comment!  i like the distinctions along with the clarifications; i can go with this

   

[B. McBannerson]

Except Obama never called Palin a pig, not even close. But nice try!

A couple of things, since I have the time with my glass of wine.

1) I think our current President is a vile man and didn't vote for him or his party.  I won't in 2020, either.
2) How often are we told that men can't answer for how women feel.  Whites for African Americans (and vice versa).  Straight for gay (and vice versa).  I'm a man, so I can only go on what some women said about his pig remarks.  Remember, Ms. Palin said the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull is lipstick. He then went with his comment.  It has a double meaning.  Obama is very smart, it was a clever rhetorical play. Both sides do it.  Community Organizer is a veiled use of language by the right.

Glamour magazine is a woman's magazine.  Amanda Carpenter is a woman ( a conservative woman).  She disagrees with you.  Not close, is that for you to decide or women?  How many women? Just one?  10%? 30%?  http://www.glamour.com/story/barack-obama-got-away-with

3) Some people view it as an old saying that a crap burger is still a crap burger even with Dijon mustard.  Yet there are people (women mostly) that have asked the phrase be not used as implies pigs are ugly women and even makeup isn't going to help.
4) Let's pretend it is 1984 and President Reagan said lipstick on a pig in reference to Mondale and Ferraro.  Would the same benefit of the doubt you are giving Mr. Obama be given to Mr. Reagan? How would our media punditry treat the remark?
5)  I could have used his remarks about Special Olympians, or Nancy Reagan.  Or this year's candidate that called roughly half the electorate a basket of deploreables.  Or Romney's comments dehumanizing people, Trump's never ending attacks on people. The lists are long on both sides.

My point I was making is there are a lot of attacks by both sides, this isn't new, but sure has ramped up.  With lefty actors wishing for a president's death, a crazy lefty trying to wipe out GOP congressmen a few weeks ago followed by some crazy professors and even a DNC member (since fired) upset that he didn't succeed.  Meanwhile, on the right crazy righties doing ads about a coming civil war and to stock up on ammunition, crazy righties threatening to take out liberals. 

It's out of hand, and both sides are doing.  A crazy president and a liberal press that is out of control in baiting the adolescent President.  Both need to stop it.

[jesmu84]

A couple of things, since I have the time with my glass of wine.

1) I think our current President is a vile man and didn't vote for him or his party.  I won't in 2020, either.
2) How often are we told that men can't answer for how women feel.  Whites for African Americans (and vice versa).  Straight for gay (and vice versa).  I'm a man, so I can only go on what some women said about his pig remarks.  Remember, Ms. Palin said the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull is lipstick. He then went with his comment.  It has a double meaning.  Obama is very smart, it was a clever rhetorical play. Both sides do it.  Community Organizer is a veiled use of language by the right.

Glamour magazine is a woman's magazine.  Amanda Carpenter is a woman ( a conservative woman).  She disagrees with you.  Not close, is that for you to decide or women?  How many women? Just one?  10%? 30%?  http://www.glamour.com/story/barack-obama-got-away-with

3) Some people view it as an old saying that a crap burger is still a crap burger even with Dijon mustard.  Yet there are people (women mostly) that have asked the phrase be not used as implies pigs are ugly women and even makeup isn't going to help.
4) Let's pretend it is 1984 and President Reagan said lipstick on a pig in reference to Mondale and Ferraro.  Would the same benefit of the doubt you are giving Mr. Obama be given to Mr. Reagan? How would our media punditry treat the remark?
5)  I could have used his remarks about Special Olympians, or Nancy Reagan.  Or this year's candidate that called roughly half the electorate a basket of deploreables.  Or Romney's comments dehumanizing people, Trump's never ending attacks on people. The lists are long on both sides.

My point I was making is there are a lot of attacks by both sides, this isn't new, but sure has ramped up.  With lefty actors wishing for a president's death, a crazy lefty trying to wipe out GOP congressmen a few weeks ago followed by some crazy professors and even a DNC member (since fired) upset that he didn't succeed.  Meanwhile, on the right crazy righties doing ads about a coming civil war and to stock up on ammunition, crazy righties threatening to take out liberals. 

It's out of hand, and both sides are doing.  A crazy president and a liberal press that is out of control in baiting the adolescent President.  Both need to stop it.

[MU82]

A couple of things, since I have the time with my glass of wine.

1) I think our current President is a vile man and didn't vote for him or his party.  I won't in 2020, either.
2) How often are we told that men can't answer for how women feel.  Whites for African Americans (and vice versa).  Straight for gay (and vice versa).  I'm a man, so I can only go on what some women said about his pig remarks.  Remember, Ms. Palin said the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull is lipstick. He then went with his comment.  It has a double meaning.  Obama is very smart, it was a clever rhetorical play. Both sides do it.  Community Organizer is a veiled use of language by the right.

Glamour magazine is a woman's magazine.  Amanda Carpenter is a woman ( a conservative woman).  She disagrees with you.  Not close, is that for you to decide or women?  How many women? Just one?  10%? 30%?  http://www.glamour.com/story/barack-obama-got-away-with

3) Some people view it as an old saying that a crap burger is still a crap burger even with Dijon mustard.  Yet there are people (women mostly) that have asked the phrase be not used as implies pigs are ugly women and even makeup isn't going to help.
4) Let's pretend it is 1984 and President Reagan said lipstick on a pig in reference to Mondale and Ferraro.  Would the same benefit of the doubt you are giving Mr. Obama be given to Mr. Reagan? How would our media punditry treat the remark?
5)  I could have used his remarks about Special Olympians, or Nancy Reagan.  Or this year's candidate that called roughly half the electorate a basket of deploreables.  Or Romney's comments dehumanizing people, Trump's never ending attacks on people. The lists are long on both sides.

My point I was making is there are a lot of attacks by both sides, this isn't new, but sure has ramped up.  With lefty actors wishing for a president's death, a crazy lefty trying to wipe out GOP congressmen a few weeks ago followed by some crazy professors and even a DNC member (since fired) upset that he didn't succeed.  Meanwhile, on the right crazy righties doing ads about a coming civil war and to stock up on ammunition, crazy righties threatening to take out liberals. 

It's out of hand, and both sides are doing.  A crazy president and a liberal press that is out of control in baiting the adolescent President.  Both need to stop it.

Nope. Speaking of "baiting," not gonna let you do it. You can talk to yourself on this one, chicos.

[MU82]

Worry more about the people who are REALLY moving the dial - the corporate cheats who are stealing millions of dollars from you and me every day!

I apologize for quoting my own previous post, but something that just happened here in NC made me want to refer back to this.

Here's a nice, freshly-minted corporate welfare cheat for you: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article159156729.html

Carolinas Healthcare System has agreed to pay a $6.5 million False Claims Act settlement to settle charges over its billing practices brought by a whistleblower, U.S. Attorney Jill Rose said Friday. Prosecutors contended the Charlotte-based hospital system had been improperly “up-coding” claims for urine drug tests in order to receive much higher payments than CHS would have if billed properly. According to court documents, from 2011 to 2015, Carolinas HealthCare conducted urine drug tests, categorized as “moderate complexity” tests by the Food and Drug Administration, but submitted claims indicating the company had conducted “high complexity” tests. As a result, federal health care programs paid CHS and certain facilities under contract with the system about $80 more per test for the claims submitted with the higher-paying code.

What we have here is the largest hospital/medical group in the Carolinas and one of the largest in the country. It is "nonprofit," so it enjoys favorable tax treatment. Its 25 or so top executives each make more than $1 million; its outgoing CEO made $6.6 million in 2015. In other words, it is swimming in money even as taxpayers like us help pay for its operations.

And yet its executives allowed a system to flourish in which major fraud was perpetrated against us taxpayers. It was only caught thanks to a whistleblower, and the fine it paid was dwarfed by the amount of fraud committed. This is not the first time this medical group has been caught cheating the government (meaning all of us).

So sure, any fraud is bad. I wish welfare mothers and other poor people didn't cheat to get an extra $50 for food here or $100 for shelter there (although I understand why they do) - or even money for "air jordans."

But here is just ONE CASE of major corporate fraud that is probably equal to tens of thousands of cases of the kind of individual fraud that rocketman and others love to scream about.

[Jay Bee]

But here is just ONE CASE of major corporate fraud that is probably equal to tens of thousands of cases of the kind of individual fraud that rocketman and others love to scream about.

"Major corporate fraud"? c'mon dude.

"In 2010, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) rejected the long standard American Medical Association’s CPT billing codes for drug screens in favor of its own coding system. In 2013 and 2014, CHS asked two separate outside consultants toreview our coding process. Both confirmed our coding selection. Carolinas HealthCare System takes compliance with Medicare and Medicaid regulations very seriously and our Corporate Compliance Department is dedicated to facility and physician compliance.

CHS takes the concerns of our employees very seriously. In fact, our anonymous HelpLine, which was implemented in 1999, was set up for the exact purpose of encouraging teammates to voice concerns should they arise.

CHS has fully cooperated in the Government’s review of this matter, but after almost two years we determined it was in our best interest to move forward and resolve this issue. The $6.5 million amount that CHS is paying to resolve this matter accounts,in part, for the difference between what CHS was reimbursed for the drug screens, and what Medicare and Medicaid alleges that CHS should have been reimbursed had it used a different code. We are pleased to put this matter behind us so that we can continue focusing on providing the expert level of care that our patients and community demand and deserve."

[jficke13]

Nope. Speaking of "baiting," not gonna let you do it. You can talk to yourself on this one, chicos.

Do we honestly think this is Chicos? Or has his screen name become the handy "this dude is bloviating in a manner reminiscent of Chicos, so I'm going to address him as Chicos" shorthand?

[MU82]

"Major corporate fraud"? c'mon dude.

Yes, major fraud. Just because the PR department has an excuse handy, defrauding taxpayers out of millions and millions of dollars is major fraud.

If a "welfare queen" did something 1/10,000th as bad, it would be Major, Major, Major Fraud to many, and they'd want to lock her up.

[rocket surgeon]

  "But here is just ONE CASE of major corporate fraud that is probably equal to tens of thousands of cases of the kind of individual fraud that rocketman and others love to scream about."

   what? huh? what the...how did i become a strawman just sitting here minding my own business?  if it's not chicos, it's me, or heisy, or doc warrior, or others?   hmmmm....notice a pattern here?  seems like that girls basketball job is getting to ya ein'er?

[jesmu84]

Rocket - I implore you to listen to this.

http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/04-carlos-doesnt-remember

[GGGG]

  "But here is just ONE CASE of major corporate fraud that is probably equal to tens of thousands of cases of the kind of individual fraud that rocketman and others love to scream about."

   what? huh? what the...how did i become a strawman just sitting here minding my own business? 

Are you sh*tting me?  Because you said this:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54395.msg935126#msg935126

And then followed it up with a bunch of typical talking points.  As I said back on the first page of this thread, you are completely lacking in self-awareness.  And now you want to play the victim?  Hilarious. 

[rocket surgeon]

Are you sh*tting me?  Because you said this:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54395.msg935126#msg935126

And then followed it up with a bunch of typical talking points.  As I said back on the first page of this thread, you are completely lacking in self-awareness.  And now you want to play the victim?  Hilarious.

i am referring to the "major corporate fraud" part that i supposedly ignore over welfare people cheating on their food stamps.  now, in reference to comment #52 that you highlight;  i stand by it.  there is nothing wrong there except when viewed thru the lens of you libbys.  nice cherry pick though.  and if you continued to read my comments and my conversation with tamu, a reasonable person would see that i am not the cold-hearted, un-feeling cro-magnon you try to make us out to be. i know-victim me   as a matter of fact, there was much about tamu's conversation that i agreed with along with hilltopper's excellently put "coup de gras" #196 at the end

[MU82]

i am referring to the "major corporate fraud" part that i supposedly ignore over welfare people cheating on their food stamps.  now, in reference to comment #52 that you highlight;  i stand by it.  there is nothing wrong there except when viewed thru the lens of you libbys.  nice cherry pick though.  and if you continued to read my comments and my conversation with tamu, a reasonable person would see that i am not the cold-hearted, un-feeling cro-magnon you try to make us out to be. i know-victim me   as a matter of fact, there was much about tamu's conversation that i agreed with along with hilltopper's excellently put "coup de gras" #196 at the end

rocket, you have such stream-of-consciousness silliness that you don't even remember what you say. x

I don't think you're a caveman. You just judge poor people more harshly than rich people for the same behavior, and you favor Reverse Robin Hood behavior as most on your side of the aisle do. I mean, just look at those two healthcare bills! Even the Orange Menace called the House version "mean" (after holding a party to celebrate it, of course), and the Senate one was so draconian that unicorns moderate Republicans were running from it.

And of course, when in doubt, bring out "liberal," "libs," "libbys," etc. Labeling and name-calling are always the easy, fall-back put-down.

[PBRme]

rocket, you have such stream-of-consciousness silliness that you don't even remember what you say. x

I don't think you're a caveman. You just judge poor people more harshly than rich people for the same behavior, and you favor Reverse Robin Hood behavior as most on your side of the aisle do. I mean, just look at those two healthcare bills! Even the Orange Menace called the House version "mean" (after holding a party to celebrate it, of course), and the Senate one was so draconian that unicorns moderate Republicans were running from it.

And of course, when in doubt, bring out "liberal," "libs," "libbys," etc. Labeling and name-calling are always the easy, fall-back put-down.

Are you referring to name calling like "orange menace" or your own outright hypocrisy is oblivious to you

[GGGG]

Are you referring to name calling like "orange menace" or your own outright hypocrisy is oblivious to you

Orange Menace is actually a pretty tame nickname.  He deserves worse.

[MU82]

Are you referring to name calling like "orange menace" or your own outright hypocrisy is oblivious to you

I was talking about calling our fellow Scoopers names. I think I have done a pretty good job of avoiding that unseemly practice over the years. (Although I do confess to having nicknamed chicos and rocket "Yogi and Boo-Boo." For shame!)

President P-Grabber, our Liar in Chief, is a very public figure. He is fair game, and I'm sure he'd agree to that, given that he practices name-calling multiple times daily. One would think the leader of the free world would be above that, but he wasn't above bragging about getting to spy on naked teenagers, so apparently anything goes with him and his sheeple.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Orange Menace is actually a pretty tame nickname.  He deserves worse.

Vander Orange Menace?

[Jay Bee]

I was talking about calling our fellow Scoopers names. I think I have done a pretty good job of avoiding that unseemly practice over the years. (Although I do confess to having nicknamed chicos and rocket "Yogi and Boo-Boo." For shame!)

President P-Grabber, our Liar in Chief, is a very public figure. He is fair game, and I'm sure he'd agree to that, given that he practices name-calling multiple times daily. One would think the leader of the free world would be above that, but he wasn't above bragging about getting to spy on naked teenagers, so apparently anything goes with him and his sheeple.

^^^^ Begging for a break

[Pakuni]

^^^^ Begging for a break

Don't become like Bobby.

[mu_hilltopper]

For the record .. please just call POTUS Trump.   

I always hated when people posted "Obambi" and whatnot .. it's just a cheap and unnecessary shot to use that kind of slang.

[Mutaman]

I heard if you say his name into a mirror three times he'll show up in your bathroom with vintage 80s porn on betamax

Here's an authentic picture of Keefe. That affair in Scottsdale was just a ruse.

[jesmu84]

I encourage all to listen to season 1 - episodes 4-6 - of Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History. It gets right at some of the topics covered in this thread. Namely, why it's so difficult for poor people to get to even middle class level. And, especially, how misguided we are in the capitalization of talent/skill in the US. It's pretty incredible.

[Lennys Tap]

For the record .. please just call POTUS Trump.   

I always hated when people posted "Obambi" and whatnot .. it's just a cheap and unnecessary shot to use that kind of slang.

+1000.