Sauced Tiger

[Lennys Tap]

I would contend that the major item leading to this public viciousness occurred 4 years later when "Oxy" Limbaugh went on the air.

Certainly Limbaugh is a big part of the problem. We used to have people like William F Buckley Jr and Daniel Patrick Moynihan on public TV debating political philosophy. Now it's Sean Hannity and Lawrence O'Donnell name calling and spewing hatred.

It's the Hatfields and the McCoys, and both sides point fingers insisting the other guy started it. We're on the brink, and anyone willing to be reasonable is in short supply.

[GGGG]

Certainly Limbaugh is a big part of the problem. We used to have people like William F Buckley Jr and Daniel Patrick Moynihan on public TV debating political philosophy. Now it's Sean Hannity and Lawrence O'Donnell name calling and spewing hatred.

It's the Hatfields and the McCoys, and both sides point fingers insisting the other guy started it. We're on the brink, and anyone willing to be reasonable is in short supply.

There is no market for "reasonable."  Remember the McLaughlin Group?  That seems so quaint now.

[Lennys Tap]

Conceptually, there's nothing sad about voting for someone who you believe represents who you are.  Yet for every person who voted for Trump believing that he was representative of them, there was probably 2 or 3 more people who were simply voting against HRC.  The ratio was probably even higher for people who voted "against" Trump rather than "for" HRC.

Listen... I have no problem with someone who uses their vote as a protest against another, but what I do have a problem is how the opinion-shapers who disguise protest in hatred... that's not good for anyone, regardless of what your political belief is.

We either hang together or we all hang separately.  Doesn't mean we have to hold the same beliefs.  But the hate-mongering needs to stop because it's leading to exactly what we witnessed in DC this week.  What's most disgusting about the whole thing is not just how both sides are using the incident to advance their own agenda, it's how polarized Americans have become to the point where we simply allow our politicians to act this way because we'd rather have power than unity.

I largely agree with this analysis.

[Lennys Tap]

There is no market for "reasonable."  Remember the McLaughlin Group?  That seems so quaint now.

+1000.

[tower912]

I remember the first time I listened to Limbaugh.   I laughed, thinking he was doing satire, never believing he was serious or that there were people who would actually take him seriously.    Oops.    IMO, the accelerating decline of modern political discourse can be traced to Rush and to Newt Gingrich.    In the 1994 election cycle, his Contract with America involved having Republicans call Democrats insane, deranged, dangerous etc.    Again, I thought that no one would take him seriously, that the American electorate would react negatively to such tactics.    It just shows my naivete.     I remember the LaRouche supporters back in the 80's, when the vast majority of society treated them as whack-jobs.   No more.     I remember the first true political scandal I was old enough to understand, Iran-Contra.   I marveled that anybody involved with that could actually stay out of jail.    Instead, they became heroes and returned to be in charge in future administrations.   
   My political instincts are liberal.    My religious instincts are liberal.    I believe that greed is a sin.   That I am my brother's keeper.    That we are called to be steward's of this planet and try to leave it better than we found it.  That health care is a right, not a privilege.  I don't like the person I become when I allow myself to be drawn into demonizing opposing viewpoints.     The kind of violence we saw this week is abhorrent to me.    And yet, there are those who will use it as an opportunity.   There are those, even on this board,  who will take my beliefs and conclude that I kill babies for fun and hate America.     
   We have met the enemy, and it is us. 

[MerrittsMustache]

I remember the first time I listened to Limbaugh.   I laughed, thinking he was doing satire, never believing he was serious or that there were people who would actually take him seriously.    Oops.    IMO, the accelerating decline of modern political discourse can be traced to Rush and to Newt Gingrich.    In the 1994 election cycle, his Contract with America involved having Republicans call Democrats insane, deranged, dangerous etc.    Again, I thought that no one would take him seriously, that the American electorate would react negatively to such tactics.    It just shows my naivete.     I remember the LaRouche supporters back in the 80's, when the vast majority of society treated them as whack-jobs.   No more.     I remember the first true political scandal I was old enough to understand, Iran-Contra.   I marveled that anybody involved with that could actually stay out of jail.    Instead, they became heroes and returned to be in charge in future administrations.   
   My political instincts are liberal.    My religious instincts are liberal.    I believe that greed is a sin.   That I am my brother's keeper.    That we are called to be steward's of this planet and try to leave it better than we found it.  That health care is a right, not a privilege.  I don't like the person I become when I allow myself to be drawn into demonizing opposing viewpoints.     The kind of violence we saw this week is abhorrent to me.    And yet, there are those who will use it as an opportunity.   There are those who will take my beliefs and conclude that I kill babies for fun and hate America.     
   We have met the enemy, and it is us.

One could make the same points about far left political commentators. Neither side is specifically to blame (though each side likes to blame the other). This is something that has been built over a long period of time and the media perpetuates it because it has made news organizations and political commentators a lot of money and, unfortunately, it will continue to do so.

A sports reporter's job is much easier when the team they cover is struggling. It's no different for news reporters.

[forgetful]

Conceptually, there's nothing sad about voting for someone who you believe represents who you are.  Yet for every person who voted for Trump believing that he was representative of them, there was probably 2 or 3 more people who were simply voting against HRC.  The ratio was probably even higher for people who voted "against" Trump rather than "for" HRC.

Listen... I have no problem with someone who uses their vote as a protest against another, but what I do have a problem is how the opinion-shapers who disguise protest in hatred... that's not good for anyone, regardless of what your political belief is.

We either hang together or we all hang separately.  Doesn't mean we have to hold the same beliefs.  But the hate-mongering needs to stop because it's leading to exactly what we witnessed in DC this week.  What's most disgusting about the whole thing is not just how both sides are using the incident to advance their own agenda, it's how polarized Americans have become to the point where we simply allow our politicians to act this way because we'd rather have power than unity.

I largely agree with this also, but there was an interesting article on google analytics recently, where they were able to correlate search histories in certain areas with voting tendencies for those districts.  The bottom line, was that the reasons people publicly say they voted for someone, or against someone are inconsistent with their search tendencies. 

The takeaway message was that when it comes to sensitive issues, assume the person is lying to you and coloring their real beliefs with what they think is socially acceptable. 

[Jockey]

Certainly Limbaugh is a big part of the problem. We used to have people like William F Buckley Jr and Daniel Patrick Moynihan on public TV debating political philosophy. Now it's Sean Hannity and Lawrence O'Donnell name calling and spewing hatred.

I used to watch Buckley all the time even though I mostly disagreed with him. It was a way to know what conservatives wanted.

I would shoot myself in the head with pleasure before I would ever watch a second of a creep like Hannity.

[Jockey]

One could make the same points about far left political commentators.

I've spun the radio dial and can't find any.

[rocket surgeon]

I've spun the radio dial and can't find any.

Teal, right?  Oh yeah, no one wanted to listen to air America, but surely you can find NPR somewhere

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Teal, right?  Oh yeah, no one wanted to listen to air America, but surely you can find NPR somewhere

I understand that NPR is liberal. I also don't listen very often. Usually only on long car rides with my mom. But I can't think of a time where anyone on NPR attacked conservatives with the same kind of language that Tower described in his post about Rush Limbaugh.

[rocket surgeon]

I understand that NPR is liberal. I also don't listen very often. Usually only on long car rides with my mom. But I can't think of a time where anyone on NPR attacked conservatives with the same kind of language that Tower described in his post about Rush Limbaugh.
[/quote

You must have missed Nina totenbergs shows and "fresh air with terry gross"  not exactly wishing well on some from the other side, including judge Clarence Thomas and general jerry Boykin  oh yeah, and did I say this is tax payer subsidized?

I better just hang up and listen as this ain't leading to good things, eyn'al?

[forgetful]

I understand that NPR is liberal. I also don't listen very often. Usually only on long car rides with my mom. But I can't think of a time where anyone on NPR attacked conservatives with the same kind of language that Tower described in his post about Rush Limbaugh.

You must have missed Nina totenbergs shows and "fresh air with terry gross"  not exactly wishing well on some from the other side, including judge Clarence Thomas and general jerry Boykin  oh yeah, and did I say this is tax payer subsidized?

I better just hang up and listen as this ain't leading to good things, eyn'al?

I don't think you can include Nina Totenbergs or Terry Gross in the same categories as Rush Limbaugh.  Both of the two women you reference are insanely respected, award winning and ground breaking journalists. 

Terry Gross is widely regarded as one of the best interviewers period.  She was roundly criticized for going to hard at Hillary Clinton in a 2014 interview. 

Nina Totenbergs has said some stupid things on a rare occasion and is definitely partisan.  The big difference is, when she has said stupid things (and hateful), she has publicly apologized for it and in regards to the most well known instance says she will regret it the rest of her life. 

Rush is in the category of Howard Stern and Don Imus.  Shock jocks.  I'm not saying they don't exist, but I can't think of any widely popular left-wing shock jocks (well, Rachel Maddow would count...but she is just the left wing Hannity).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You must have missed Nina totenbergs shows and "fresh air with terry gross"  not exactly wishing well on some from the other side, including judge Clarence Thomas and general jerry Boykin  oh yeah, and did I say this is tax payer subsidized?

I better just hang up and listen as this ain't leading to good things, eyn'al?

I wasn't of NPR listening age when Totenberg reported on Anita Hill's allegations against Judge Thomas. I also have never heard nothing but praise for Terry Gross.  But again, fully admit  to not listening to them often. You'll need to give me examples of times where they called conservatives deranged, insane, dangerous and nazis. I added that last term because Rush is famous for his calling feminists "feminazis"

[Lennys Tap]

I know this thread has turned decidedly political and I admit I had a role in that. Apologies because I know that is against the rules. But reading the comments here from people on the left, on the right and in the center buoys my spirit. Honest, reasonable commentary from all. Makes me proud to be a Scooper - and we can all use a little pride about now. Thanks to all!

[tower912]

One could make the same points about far left political commentators. Neither side is specifically to blame (though each side likes to blame the other). This is something that has been built over a long period of time and the media perpetuates it because it has made news organizations and political commentators a lot of money and, unfortunately, it will continue to do so.

A sports reporter's job is much easier when the team they cover is struggling. It's no different for news reporters.

The left wasn't as aggressively negative and still struggles to do so.    Very few really have the knack for being that kind of attack dog.   They try and it sounds forced, like they feel like they have to act that way in response, even though it doesn't come naturally. 

[Jay Bee]

As our streets are flooded with protesters in Minnesota, #BanHammer

[Herman Cain]

I remember the first time I listened to Limbaugh.   I laughed, thinking he was doing satire, never believing he was serious or that there were people who would actually take him seriously.    Oops.    IMO, the accelerating decline of modern political discourse can be traced to Rush and to Newt Gingrich.    In the 1994 election cycle, his Contract with America involved having Republicans call Democrats insane, deranged, dangerous etc.    Again, I thought that no one would take him seriously, that the American electorate would react negatively to such tactics.    It just shows my naivete.     I remember the LaRouche supporters back in the 80's, when the vast majority of society treated them as whack-jobs.   No more.     I remember the first true political scandal I was old enough to understand, Iran-Contra.   I marveled that anybody involved with that could actually stay out of jail.    Instead, they became heroes and returned to be in charge in future administrations.   
   My political instincts are liberal.    My religious instincts are liberal.    I believe that greed is a sin.   That I am my brother's keeper.    That we are called to be steward's of this planet and try to leave it better than we found it.  That health care is a right, not a privilege.  I don't like the person I become when I allow myself to be drawn into demonizing opposing viewpoints.     The kind of violence we saw this week is abhorrent to me.    And yet, there are those who will use it as an opportunity.   There are those, even on this board,  who will take my beliefs and conclude that I kill babies for fun and hate America.     
   We have met the enemy, and it is us.

While you are sitting there in Grand Rapids being sanctimonious about life and sucking off the societal teet, I will be here in New York working my azz off to keep 1,000 families with a paycheck and paying 9 figures in corporate taxes for the privilege. And, oh by the way ,we provide the best health care going and don't need no stinkin Obama Care.

[tower912]

Thank you.  For proving my point and making me laugh. 

[rocket surgeon]

As our streets are flooded with protesters in Minnesota, #BanHammer

thank you

[barfolomew]

Everyone should try a month or two swapping twitter and facebook feeds with someone from the other ideological persuasion.
Won't change many minds, but maybe would lessen the echo chamber we tend to feel more comfortable with.

Also, I hate to bring this thread back to the original topic, but sauced tiger is delicious with balsamic asparagus and oven roasted potatoes.

[Jockey]

(well, Rachel Maddow would count...but she is just the left wing Hannity).

A horrendously misinformed statement.

[Jockey]

As our streets are flooded with protesters in Minnesota, #BanHammer

Apparently you support murder.

Most don't.

[rocket surgeon]

how 'bout those packers, ey?

[Benny B]

Just to tie this thread all together...Any informed voter who was a strong supporter of voted for either Trump or Hillary likely suffers from some sort of mental illness.

FIFY.  Resigning yourself to having to vote for the lesser of two evils in this country at the very least shows loss of foresight.  Or a sociopathological disregard for others.