Judge dismisses all of McAdams claims against Marquette

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, she was forced to leave school, received threats and harassment, and continues to be mocked in the national press (and elsewhere ... like Scoop) more than three years after the fact.
Definitely came out a winner.

Did Marquette force her to leave school? I thought she voluntarily left and Marquette facilitated her move to U of Colorado. The only person who received walking papers over this incident was McAdams, correct? Or do I have the facts wrong?

[Pakuni]

Did Marquette force her to leave school? I thought she voluntarily left and Marquette facilitated her move to U of Colorado. The only person who received walking papers over this incident was McAdams, correct? Or do I have the facts wrong?

She was forced to leave as a result of the threats, harassment and public ridicule brought on by a misleading blog post from a faculty member.

[Pakuni]

I do-MU harassed him, checked and monitored all his emails and made it very difficult to graduate.  In other words MU did their own form of ...nice education ya got there, be a shame if anything...and I absolutely cannot divulge my sources, but I sure MU would be happy to corroborate.  His life was made miserable

The student did an anonymous interview with the Marquette Tribune in 2016. Nowhere does he claim anything of the sort.
Perhaps he doesn't have your sources' knowledge of his situation?

https://marquettewire.org/3949078/tribune/tribune-news/students-at-heart-of-mcadams-controversy-share-their-sides-of-the-story/

[GGGG]

The student did an anonymous interview with the Marquette Tribune in 2016. Nowhere does he claim anything of the sort.
Perhaps he doesn't have your sources' knowledge of his situation?

https://marquettewire.org/3949078/tribune/tribune-news/students-at-heart-of-mcadams-controversy-share-their-sides-of-the-story/

Well I had forgotten the recorded meeting with Holz and South.  That is going to be intimidating for an undergraduate student regardless of the circumstances, and recording the meeting without disclosing it?  Amateur hour stuff...

"After the post gained national attention, the student had a meeting about the incident with College of Arts & Sciences Dean Richard Holz and South. The student said it was later found out that South recorded the conversation without getting consent to do so. Cameron Sholty, communications director for the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty, which McAdams' lawyers work for, also said the recording happened.

Parts of the recording's transcript are inaudible due to the recorder being muffled while it was hidden under South's clothes."

[warriorchick]

Well I had forgotten the recorded meeting with Holz and South.  That is going to be intimidating for an undergraduate student regardless of the circumstances, and recording the meeting without disclosing it?  Amateur hour stuff...

"After the post gained national attention, the student had a meeting about the incident with College of Arts & Sciences Dean Richard Holz and South. The student said it was later found out that South recorded the conversation without getting consent to do so. Cameron Sholty, communications director for the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty, which McAdams' lawyers work for, also said the recording happened.

Parts of the recording's transcript are inaudible due to the recorder being muffled while it was hidden under South's clothes."

If the student was outraged at the secret recording, that takes stones, especially since he had done the same thing to Abbate.

[Pakuni]

Well I had forgotten the recorded meeting with Holz and South.  That is going to be intimidating for an undergraduate student regardless of the circumstances, and recording the meeting without disclosing it?  Amateur hour stuff...

"After the post gained national attention, the student had a meeting about the incident with College of Arts & Sciences Dean Richard Holz and South. The student said it was later found out that South recorded the conversation without getting consent to do so. Cameron Sholty, communications director for the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty, which McAdams' lawyers work for, also said the recording happened.

Parts of the recording's transcript are inaudible due to the recorder being muffled while it was hidden under South's clothes."

It's obvious everyone behaved poorly here (some more so than others).
That said, the student by his own account "never felt unsafe" and didn't know about the recording until well after the fact, which makes it unlikely he was intimidated by the recording. (And why would he be intimidated by the recording, but not the meeting itself?)

But still, the main point is, when given the chance two years after the fact to anonymously tell how he'd been done wrong by Marquette - as rocket claims he was - the kid said nothing of the sort.

[GGGG]

If the student was outraged at the secret recording, that takes stones, especially since he had done the same thing to Abbate.

There is zero reason why an administrator should make a secret recording of a meeting with a student unless directed to do so in the case of a criminal investigation.

It's obvious everyone behaved poorly here (some more so than others).
That said, the student by his own account "never felt unsafe" and didn't know about the recording until well after the fact, which makes it unlikely he was intimidated by the recording. (And why would he be intimidated by the recording, but not the meeting itself?)

But still, the main point is, when given the chance two years after the fact to anonymously tell how he'd been done wrong by Marquette - as rocket claims he was - the kid said nothing of the sort.

I agree on all counts.

[warriorchick]

There is zero reason why an administrator should make a secret recording of a meeting with a student unless directed to do so in the case of a criminal investigation.

I never said the recording was appropriate.  I said that it took balls for the student to be upset by it (if that was indeed the case).

[Jockey]

There is zero reason why an administrator should make a secret recording of a meeting with a student unless directed to do so in the case of a criminal investigation.

That isn't answering the point that Chick made.

[GGGG]

I never said the recording was appropriate.  I said that it took balls for the student to be upset by it (if that was indeed the case).

He should be upset because it was inappropriate regardless of his prior actions.

Students make mistakes.  Administrators should know better.

[forgetful]

He should be upset because it was inappropriate regardless of his prior actions.

Students make mistakes.  Administrators should know better.

Any attorney would have recommended the administrator record the conversation with the student, and since it is not required for both parties to consent in Wisconsin, many of the attorneys would have advised them to not alert the student of the recording. 

If the individual knows they are being recorded they are more likely to lie about details that are hearsay. 

[4everwarriors]

I never said the recording was appropriate.  I said that it took balls for the student to be upset by it (if that was indeed the case).

Kinda usin' "balls" in a sexist, stereotypical manner here, ai na?

[real chili 83]

Kinda usin' "balls" in a sexist, stereotypical manner here, ai na?

Tit for tat, a'aiaaanaaa?

[GGGG]

Any attorney would have recommended the administrator record the conversation with the student, and since it is not required for both parties to consent in Wisconsin, many of the attorneys would have advised them to not alert the student of the recording. 

If the individual knows they are being recorded they are more likely to lie about details that are hearsay.

Not a legal matter.  And unless they do this as a matter of course, it opens them up to additional liability.

Seriously stupid thing to do.

[Lennys Tap]

She was forced to leave as a result of the threats, harassment and public ridicule brought on by a misleading blog post from a faculty member.

Maybe she DECIDED to leave for those reasons, but she wasn't "forced". There are cases of people standing up to much more threatening bullies than John McAdams.

[GGGG]

Maybe she DECIDED to leave for those reasons, but she wasn't "forced". There are cases of people standing up to much more threatening bullies than John McAdams.

She very well have felt forced to leave for fear of her life or career.  The word is accurately used.

[Lennys Tap]

She very well have felt forced to leave for fear of her life or career.  The word is accurately used.

Disagree. I may decide to move because I fear violence in my neighborhood of decide to quit the football team because I fear CTE. Legitimate fears, to be sure, but my decision, not one forced on me.

[Pakuni]

Disagree. I may decide to move because I fear violence in my neighborhood of decide to quit the football team because I fear CTE. Legitimate fears, to be sure, but my decision, not one forced on me.

Holy pedantry, Batman!

By your logic, armed robbery victims choose to give up their belongings.

[Lennys Tap]

Holy pedantry, Batman!

By your logic, armed robbery victims choose to give up their belongings.

You're just dead wrong. Nobody forced Ms Abbate out. She decided (for reasons likely valid) to leave. Fact.

[Pakuni]

You're just dead wrong. Nobody forced Ms Abbate out. She decided (for reasons likely valid) to leave. Fact.

Nobody forced the bank teller to hand over the money. He decided (for reasons likely valid) to give it up. Fact.

I'm going to suggest the Lenny Defense to some of my friends who practice  criminal  law.

[Lennys Tap]

Nobody forced the bank teller to hand over the money. He decided (for reasons likely valid) to give it up. Fact.

I'm going to suggest the Lenny Defense to some of my friends who practice  criminal  law.

Plenty of people don't leave town because someone threatens them in an email. Equating it to armed robbery is foolish. I'll call it the Pakuni Principle and all of my friends who enjoy a good laugh at foolish will have a yuk.

[Pakuni]

Plenty of people don't leave town because someone threatens them in an email. Equating it to armed robbery is foolish. I'll call it the Pakuni Principle and all of my friends who enjoy a good laugh at foolish will have a yuk.

Just applying your logic, Lenny. 
And we agree on its foolishness.

[Lennys Tap]

If the student was outraged at the secret recording, that takes stones, especially since he had done the same thing to Abbate.

I have been told this issue is, to a great extent, about power.

If Abbate is immune from criticism due to her "powerless" status vis a vis McAdams, how can you possibly compare a powerless student secretly taping his powerful, unreasonable teacher with powerful deans and/or heads of departments secretly taping a powerless undergrad?

[Lennys Tap]

Just applying your logic, Lenny. 
And we agree on its foolishness.

Misrepresenting it, actually. But you knew that.

[Pakuni]

I have been told this issue is, to a great extent, about power.

If Abbate is immune from criticism due to her "powerless" status vis a vis McAdams, how can you possibly compare a powerless student secretly taping his powerful, unreasonable teacher with powerful deans and/or heads of departments secretly taping a powerless undergrad?

This is such a blatant misstatement of reality. I mean, at what point exactly did you decide to become Chico's?
Nobody on any side of this debate has ever suggested Abbate was immune from criticism. To the contrary, if there's one thing everyone agrees upon, it's that she handled the situation poorly.
But this isn't about how she handled it. Or about secret recordings. Or academic freedom. Or campus politics. Or any of the other noise you and others are making to cloud the real issue here.
This is about a professor using his considerable platform to subject a student to public ridicule (and worse ... though I believe worse was not his intent), after he'd already been warned against such behavior by the administration after he'd done so in the past.
It's also about an arrogant and stubborn man who'd rather drag everyone down into the muck with him rather than simply admitting he was wrong, apologizing for it and moving on.