Final

[rocket surgeon]

  not meaning to ruin your cred here 82, but as i was reading the comments about the ref'ing-my thoughts exactly-

" 3. I agree the officiating was sub-par but the play in the game WAS overly physical right from the start. I think they felt early on that they had to try to clean things up so it didn't get out of hand, but the players didn't adjust to the way it was being called and then the refs had to keep calling it. I've been there as a ref myself, and it's really a no-win situation. But again, I think these 3 weren't very good, and I also agree that Collins had 2-3 really bad calls against him, which almost surely helped alter the course of the game."

  what what what? something about great minds, heyn'a?  ok, now back to your regularly scheduled program

[MU82]

  not meaning to ruin your cred here 82, but as i was reading the comments about the ref'ing-my thoughts exactly-

" 3. I agree the officiating was sub-par but the play in the game WAS overly physical right from the start. I think they felt early on that they had to try to clean things up so it didn't get out of hand, but the players didn't adjust to the way it was being called and then the refs had to keep calling it. I've been there as a ref myself, and it's really a no-win situation. But again, I think these 3 weren't very good, and I also agree that Collins had 2-3 really bad calls against him, which almost surely helped alter the course of the game."

  what what what? something about great minds, heyn'a?  ok, now back to your regularly scheduled program

You agree with me? Then ... uh ... never mind!

Seriously, rocket, we've agreed on some things in the past. I can't name any, but I'm sure we have!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Feel free to PM me and I will provide course number(s).

I PMed you. Excited to find out the course number.

[rocket surgeon]

You agree with me? Then ... uh ... never mind!

Seriously, rocket, we've agreed on some things in the past. I can't name any, but I'm sure we have!

well, not only did i agree with you, but i believe it was an excellent observation-let's go on the premise that these were really the "final four" of refs, the creme de la creme, the cat's arse's of officials, the sprinkles on the sundae, the...well, ya'll get my...anyway, their(the refs) game plan was to maintain order and set their foot(s) down, establish who's da boss.  the players figured-this is it.  we're gonna give it all we got-the refs surely won't be calling it that close for the WHOLE game... kinda like an NBA final where they might as well have it in a cage.

here's a thought-maybe the refs should have a 4th guy/moderator on the side, pointing out some things, grounding the 3 out on the floor as i'm sure they get caught up in all the hysteria as well.  during time outs, the 4th person could act as a "coach" if you will, keeping the refs from allowing stuff to get out of hand yet keep them from becoming "the game"

the refs got all caught up in plan "A"-to be a ref and never really had a plan "B"  when to take their collective feet off the necks of the players...(loved the comment earlier by stillawarrior-"honey did ya see me on tv? loved it! ) as the players didn't stray from their game plan-to go balls out for 40 minutes, the refs were caught looking at each other like...you gonna call that one, i got the last one, your turn...

moral of the story-the NCAA thought they had picked out the best of the best but they turned out to be one and dones  for  the worst possible game.  is ref'ing the final 4 easy?  hell no! but with all the effing $$ they have, surely they can find a team of 3(they are out there) who know what it takes to find a balance in the most important game of the season.

[StillAWarrior]

So at Louisville on the hooker scandal, which occurred in a primarily athletic dorm...that skirts the rule of extra benefits by having a few academic student residents, Pitino was unjustly penalized by the NCAA?  Rim jobs for everyone!

That's a recruiting violation.  Completely different set of rules.  The NCAA has very specific rules outlining what you can give to a recruit during a campus visit.  Hookers aren't allowed -- even if they're provided to all students.  The NCAA does not have rules regarding the content of classes.

[Loose Cannon]

  The NCAA does not have rules regarding the content of classes.

Would that then make all the NCAA Rules on Grades Meaningless.

[CTWarrior]

Team fouls need to reset at the 10 minutes mark, like they did in the NIT. Maybe, we need to look at going to 6 fouls per player as well.

The Big East went to 6 fouls for Big East games a few seasons (89-90, 90-91 & 91-92), and the games became overly physical messes.  I don't think we want that rule. 

To me the biggest cause for the increase of fouls over the years is the continued increase of attempting to draw charges.  That forcing of a block or charge foul inflates the foul totals.  I'm not saying its bad strategy or something, but in the 70's and 80's was when it really got going.  In the old days guys were funneled to a shot blocker on drives who would attempt to block the shot.  I think drawing charges has the unfortunate benefit of being effective, so I don't see it going away any time soon.

[GGGG]

I think the only thing that get's rid of those type of charging calls is to not allow any secondary defender to pick up a charge.  Essentially force the defender to have to make a play on the ball.  And if you are standing there perfectly still, and an offensive player runs into you, the foul is automatically on the defense.

It would be interesting to see what that would look like.  Maybe its one of those things that the NIT could try?

[warriorchick]

I PMed you. Excited to find out the course number.

Thanks, TAMU, for passing the info on to me.

I was not familiar with one of the courses, but the other, HEAL 1025, Culture and Health, I do know about, because glow jr. did indeed take that course.

He chose it because it met the Core Curriculum requirement for a Diverse Cultures class, and he thought it may have some relevance to his eventual career (which it actually did). While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well. 

Oh, and by sheer coincidence, guess who else was in the same section of HEAL 10285 that glow jr. was in?

1.  The son of the Provost I mentioned before, who again, takes academic standards very seriously, and butted heads on more than one occasion with those who sought to lower them (or lower them for certain groups)
2.  The Dean of the Nursing School's kid, who was an engineering major.

Yes, my kid got an A. It is also quite possible that the percentage of kids who got A's in this class was higher that the percentage who got A's in freshman Engineering calculus, but that doesn't mean it was a worthless, throw-away basketweaving class.

Even if it was, the point is that UNC was offering a degree in basketweaving, and a very high percentage of those getting basketweaving degrees were athletes.

Marquette does not do that, and for MUFNY to imply that it does, but  is just better at hiding it, is an insult to the school, the athletics program, and mostly, to its degree-holders.

[StillAWarrior]

Thanks, TAMU, for passing the info on to me.

I was not familiar with one of the courses, but the other, HEAL 1025, Culture and Health, I do know about, because glow jr. did indeed take that course.

He chose it because it met the Core Curriculum requirement for a Diverse Cultures class, and he thought it may have some relevance to his eventual career (which it actually did). While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well. 

Oh, and by sheer coincidence, guess who else was in the same section of HEAL 10285 that glow jr. was in?

1.  The son of the Provost I mentioned before, who again, takes academic standards very seriously, and butted heads on more than one occasion with those who sought to lower them (or lower them for certain groups)
2.  The Dean of the Nursing School's kid, who was an engineering major.

Yes, my kid got an A. It is also quite possible that the percentage of kids who got A's in this class was higher that the percentage who got A's in freshman Engineering calculus, but that doesn't mean it was a worthless, throw-away basketweaving class.

Even if it was, the point is that UNC was offering a degree in basketweaving, and a very high percentage of those getting basketweaving degrees were athletes.

Marquette does not do that, and for MUFNY to imply that it does, but  is just better at hiding it, is an insult to the school, the athletics program, and mostly, to its degree-holders.

No offense, chick, but some of us would really appreciate it if you could leave your "facts" and "knowledge" and actual "experiences" at the door.  This is a place of innuendos and vague and unsupported allegations.  And some of us would like to keep it that way.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well. 

Well, it was a good class, until Wojo started teaching it and demotivated all the students

[warriorchick]

No offense, chick, but some of us would really appreciate it if you could leave your "facts" and "knowledge" and actual "experiences" at the door.  This is a place of innuendos and vague and unsupported allegations.  And some of us would like to keep it that way.

My bad.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Thanks, TAMU, for passing the info on to me.

I was not familiar with one of the courses, but the other, HEAL 1025, Culture and Health, I do know about, because glow jr. did indeed take that course.

He chose it because it met the Core Curriculum requirement for a Diverse Cultures class, and he thought it may have some relevance to his eventual career (which it actually did). While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well. 

Oh, and by sheer coincidence, guess who else was in the same section of HEAL 10285 that glow jr. was in?

1.  The son of the Provost I mentioned before, who again, takes academic standards very seriously, and butted heads on more than one occasion with those who sought to lower them (or lower them for certain groups)
2.  The Dean of the Nursing School's kid, who was an engineering major.

Yes, my kid got an A. It is also quite possible that the percentage of kids who got A's in this class was higher that the percentage who got A's in freshman Engineering calculus, but that doesn't mean it was a worthless, throw-away basketweaving class.

Even if it was, the point is that UNC was offering a degree in basketweaving, and a very high percentage of those getting basketweaving degrees were athletes.

Marquette does not do that, and for MUFNY to imply that it does, but  is just better at hiding it, is an insult to the school, the athletics program, and mostly, to its degree-holders.

Understand your point but what is the point in mentioning your son got an A?  Plz leave those posts for Facebook.

[wadesworld]

Understand your point but what is the point in mentioning your son got an A?  Plz leave those posts for Facebook.

Because Fischer and JJJ got C's, and her son is a better basketball player than those 2 as well, so if Wojo would've been smart we would've been better off both on and off the court with chick's son than we were with JJJ and Fischer on the roster.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Because, frankly, UNC had a brilliant defense.  The bogus classes were offered to all students, not just athletes.  Thus, they weren't an impermissible benefit for athletes and the NCAA has no jurisdiction.  UNC told the NCAA, "This is between us and our accrediting agency.  It's none of your business."  Their accrediting agency put them on probation for one year...to absolutely no effect.  Some might argue the wisdom of a well-respected university tarnishing its overall academic integrity to protect its athletics program, but so far it's hard to argue with the results.

Fortunately UNC did a bit more than that and should be facing discipline. Apparently academic counselors in the athletic department also enrolled at risk student-athletes in these programs after the enrollment deadline had passed thus making it an extra benefit.


Mary Willingham's affidavit is signed and under oath under penalty of perjury. Check this part out:

"I have also reviewed data that is consistent with my experience. During the last decade at UNC, where I have obtained permission from the institutional review board to collect data for research purposes, the majority of our football and basketball players have entered the institution woefully underprepared for the classroom. At UNC, we routinely tested for learning disabilities any athlete who attended a 2nd summer school session before the first year. Of the 182 athletes screened between 2005 and 2012, a great majority (85%) come from the profit sports, although several teams are represented in the group. About 60% (110) of these athletes had reading scores below the 50% range—constituting 4th-8th grade reading levels. More than a dozen, 8-10%, were functionally illiterate, and 39% were found to be learning disabled and/or have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."

The third NOA goes hard at the athletic department, contending that athletics personnel had the ability to "manage material aspects" of the paper classes, that athletes were enrolled "at a disproportionately higher rate," that academic counselors in the athletic department enrolled athletes after the enrollment deadline had passed and that getting jocks into these classes was in and of itself an extra benefit.

[warriorchick]

Because Fischer and JJJ got C's, and her son is a better basketball player than those 2 as well, so if Wojo would've been smart we would've been better off both on and off the court with chick's son than we were with JJJ and Fischer on the roster.

If Fishy and Trey-J suddenly morphed into marginally athletic 5'5" guys whose career point total in organized basketball was 2, I would agree that glow jr. has the edge.

[StillAWarrior]

Fortunately UNC did a bit more than that and should be facing discipline. Apparently academic counselors in the athletic department also enrolled at risk student-athletes in these programs after the enrollment deadline had passed thus making it an extra benefit.


Mary Willingham's affidavit is signed and under oath under penalty of perjury. Check this part out:

"I have also reviewed data that is consistent with my experience. During the last decade at UNC, where I have obtained permission from the institutional review board to collect data for research purposes, the majority of our football and basketball players have entered the institution woefully underprepared for the classroom. At UNC, we routinely tested for learning disabilities any athlete who attended a 2nd summer school session before the first year. Of the 182 athletes screened between 2005 and 2012, a great majority (85%) come from the profit sports, although several teams are represented in the group. About 60% (110) of these athletes had reading scores below the 50% range—constituting 4th-8th grade reading levels. More than a dozen, 8-10%, were functionally illiterate, and 39% were found to be learning disabled and/or have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."

The third NOA goes hard at the athletic department, contending that athletics personnel had the ability to "manage material aspects" of the paper classes, that athletes were enrolled "at a disproportionately higher rate," that academic counselors in the athletic department enrolled athletes after the enrollment deadline had passed and that getting jocks into these classes was in and of itself an extra benefit.

Please don't misunderstand my posts on this topic.  I'm not supporting UNC, and I'm generally aware.  There's a good bit of sarcasm intended in my posts.

[Dr. Blackheart]

That's a recruiting violation.  Completely different set of rules.  The NCAA has very specific rules outlining what you can give to a recruit during a campus visit.  Hookers aren't allowed -- even if they're provided to all students.  The NCAA does not have rules regarding the content of classes.

Maybe I misrepresented the teachers involved with a slang term. Louisville aptly named this a Modern Urban Dance seminar, that was available to all current and prospective students to provide a feel for life at UofL.  A buffet spread was available after at Porcini's.

[Newsdreams]

Maybe I misrepresented the teachers involved with a slang term. Louisville aptly named this a Modern Urban Dance seminar, that was available to all current and prospective students to provide a feel for life at UofL.  A buffet spread was available after at Porcini's.

Buffet was after closing I assume

[rocket surgeon]

did anyone here take that 2 credit opera class at MU?  it was in marquette hall, a big lecture hall.  originally he(i forget his name) gave everyone who showed up for all the classes an "A".  but after word got around, changed that to showing up most of the time a "B" and if ya wrote a paper and showed up, an "A".  i don't remember seeing any athletes in the class unless they were being punished

       man! sitting thru some of those classes, listening to verdi and wagner made many a grown man cry for mercy

[Silkk the Shaka]

The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.

History of Jazz, baby! top 5 class at MU

[MU82]

When we were taking our daughter college-shopping about 12 years ago, one of her possibilities was Grinnell, a perennially highly ranked school in Iowa. IIRC, they had a course all about Batman.

[warriorchick]

When we were taking our daughter college-shopping about 12 years ago, one of her possibilities was Grinnell, a perennially highly ranked school in Iowa. IIRC, they had a course all about Batman.

But could you get a B.A. in Batman Studies?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

But could you get a B.A. in Batman Studies?

Only at DC University.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When we were taking our daughter college-shopping about 12 years ago, one of her possibilities was Grinnell, a perennially highly ranked school in Iowa. IIRC, they had a course all about Batman.

I've taken courses just on Tolkien and just on CS Lewis before. Batman seems like a logical progression from that.

I just pray that I don't live to see courses on Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray.