Final

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Wonder if the NCAA will ever take action against UNC for one of the biggest academic scandals of all time. They sure don't seem to be in a rush to do anything.

The NCAA will punish UNC-Asheville or -Greensboro instead just because they are in the same state.

[bilsu]

That was a HUGE missed call. UNC kept the ball and scored. Could have changed the outcome.

NWG had a great game but his "hero ball" (as Scoopers like to call it) cost Gonzaga down the stretch.

I think the biggest missed call was the no call on when NWG rolled his ankle. He was being pushed by a North Carolina player, which caused him to hurt his ankle when he tried to hold his ground. After that it was on Coach Few by still using NWG as the go to player when he had a bad ankle.

[StillAWarrior]

Honest question: why isn't UNC buried in sanctions right now? How have they escaped major scandal scot-free?

Because, frankly, UNC had a brilliant defense.  The bogus classes were offered to all students, not just athletes.  Thus, they weren't an impermissible benefit for athletes and the NCAA has no jurisdiction.  UNC told the NCAA, "This is between us and our accrediting agency.  It's none of your business."  Their accrediting agency put them on probation for one year...to absolutely no effect.  Some might argue the wisdom of a well-respected university tarnishing its overall academic integrity to protect its athletics program, but so far it's hard to argue with the results.

[4everwarriors]

No Marquette sighting on One Shining Moment.

Pretty kool wit Showalter and Bumstead, doe, hey?

[T-Bone]

Perfect recap:
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/dumb-shining-moment-your-2017-ncaa-tournament-lowlight-1793980205

[tower912]

If this were the LPGA, we could email someone and get the outcome changed.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Team fouls need to reset at the 10 minutes mark, like they did in the NIT. Maybe, we need to look at going to 6 fouls per player as well.

[GGGG]

I know it'll never happen because all that matters is money but if you want a clean Final Four these games should be played in basketball arenas.

I'm not following the logic here.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think the biggest missed call was the no call on when NWG rolled his ankle. He was being pushed by a North Carolina player, which caused him to hurt his ankle when he tried to hold his ground. After that it was on Coach Few by still using NWG as the go to player when he had a bad ankle.

Few didn't have a choice. NWG had decided that he was going to be the go-to guy down the stretch no matter what. He's an excellent player and had a nice all-around game despite not shooting well, but he needed to play smarter in the last 90 seconds.

Sidenote: Meeks averaged 16 and 11 on 78% shooting in the FF but Berry was the MOP? No one who shoots 9-33 from the floor should win an individual award.

[wadesworld]

I'm not following the logic here.

You play 36+ games to get to a Final Four all in one type of arena (10K-19K seating capacity built to hold basketball games) and then for the 3 biggest games of the season you move it into a 60K-100K seat football stadium with the basketball court in what feels like the middle of nowhere away from the seats, scorer's table, benches, etc. with completely different site lines.  You get 90 minutes to adjust to a brand new environment.  In my mind it doesn't come as much of a coincidence that you will see 1 good shooting performance between 3 Final Four games in most years.

[wadesworld]

Few didn't have a choice. NWG had decided that he was going to be the go-to guy down the stretch no matter what. He's an excellent player and had a nice all-around game despite not shooting well, but he needed to play smarter in the last 90 seconds.

Sidenote: Meeks averaged 16 and 11 on 78% shooting in the FF but Berry was the MOP? No one who shoots 9-33 from the floor should win an individual award.

That's not really what Few said in his post game interview.  He said NWG was the only guy they could call a play for because he was the only one who could get a shot to fall.  Seemed like Few was making that call.

[GGGG]

You play 36+ games to get to a Final Four all in one type of arena (10K-19K seating capacity built to hold basketball games) and then for the 3 biggest games of the season you move it into a 60K-100K seat football stadium with the basketball court in what feels like the middle of nowhere away from the seats, scorer's table, benches, etc. with completely different site lines.  You get 90 minutes to adjust to a brand new environment.  In my mind it doesn't come as much of a coincidence that you will see 1 good shooting performance between 3 Final Four games in most years.

Are shooting percentages significantly different in dome games v. non-dome games?  That would be a fun little research project including departures from the normal O and D ratings for both teams.

I thought the flow was bad because of refs more than anything.

[wadesworld]

Are shooting percentages significantly different in dome games v. non-dome games?  That would be a fun little research project including departures from the normal O and D ratings for both teams.

I thought the flow was bad because of refs more than anything.

Yeah I was wondering that as well.  And UNC's (particularly Jackson's) shot selection in the first half didn't help their shooting numbers, nor did Gonzaga missing a bunch of bunnies (first time this season they haven't been able to play bully ball down by the rim).  I feel like most Final Four games are pretty poor shooting games.  Could have more to do with the size of the moment than it does the size of the arena, or could just be a myth that the games are sloppier, who knows.

[MUBurrow]

That's not really what Few said in his post game interview.  He said NWG was the only guy they could call a play for because he was the only one who could get a shot to fall.  Seemed like Few was making that call.

This makes sense to me.  The only other players that seemed even capable of creating any offense vs UNC were Perkins and Williams. Perkins went without a fg in the second half, and Williams only took one shot (a three). NWG might have been calling his own number a lot down the stretch, but when the only other offense you have is a combined 1-4 for the entire half, kid was going to have to be the hero for the Zags to have a chance.

[Benny B]

Yeah I was wondering that as well.  And UNC's (particularly Jackson's) shot selection in the first half didn't help their shooting numbers, nor did Gonzaga missing a bunch of bunnies (first time this season they haven't been able to play bully ball down by the rim).  I feel like most Final Four games are pretty poor shooting games.  Could have more to do with the size of the moment than it does the size of the arena, or could just be a myth that the games are sloppier, who knows.

It's all a matter of perspective... Hinkle was a cavern compared to their little gym back in Hickory, but the Huskers still pulled it off.  Perhaps every coach should carry a tape measure to the Final Four.

Though I generally agree with pulling the FF from the stadiums, I just don't think it's possible.  I'd like to go over the box office figures and see just how many sponsors are sucking up tickets to these games.... of the 76,000 "in attendance," I wouldn't be surprised if half the tickets printed had a face value of $COMP.

[Norm]

Because, frankly, UNC had a brilliant defense.  The bogus classes were offered to all students, not just athletes.  Thus, they weren't an impermissible benefit for athletes and the NCAA has no jurisdiction. UNC told the NCAA, "This is between us and our accrediting agency.  It's none of your business."  Their accrediting agency put them on probation for one year...to absolutely no effect.  Some might argue the wisdom of a well-respected university tarnishing its overall academic integrity to protect its athletics program, but so far it's hard to argue with the results.

I am not a lawyer, so can't say how if the defense is brilliant or not, but the fact remains that UNC still used players who were given academic credit for courses that didn't exist. Technically, every player who accepted a grade for those classes knew it was bogus and intentionally cheated. This was a massive academic fraud that benefited athletes to keep them eligible. If you look at how the NCAA has penalized other schools for academic misconduct, its an absolute joke that nothing has been done about this academic scandal.

[Herman Cain]

I am not a lawyer, so can't say how if the defense is brilliant or not, but the fact remains that UNC still used players who were given academic credit for courses that didn't exist. Technically, every player who accepted a grade for those classes knew it was bogus and intentionally cheated. This was a massive academic fraud that benefited athletes to keep them eligible. If you look at how the NCAA has penalized other schools for academic misconduct, its an absolute joke that nothing has been done about this academic scandal.

The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.

[Bocephys]

The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.

"Necks: How thick is thick enough?" conveniently exists in both philosophy and science majors to ensure adequate coverage.

[jesmu84]

The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.

Wrong.

[manny31]

The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.

I read that there were no classes. You could register for them and there was room/lecture hall associated with the class. If you were to show up at the scheduled time and place you would find that the course didn't exist. Disclaimer: I don't remember my source. I think it may have been SI, not sure though. If what I assert is true they suck and they suck as an institution. Correct me if I am wrong but I would bet dollars to donuts that sort of thing does not exist at MU or at many other institutions.

[GGGG]

I read that there were no classes. You could register for them and there was room/lecture hall associated with the class. If you were to show up at the scheduled time and place you would find that the course didn't exist. Disclaimer: I don't remember my source. I think it may have been SI, not sure though. If what I assert is true they suck and they suck as an institution. Correct me if I am wrong but I would bet dollars to donuts that sort of thing does not exist at MU or at many other institutions.

Right.  This is why the school was put on probation by the Higher Learning Commission.  And while athletes were disproportionally represented in these classes, athletes did not make up a majority of students enrolled.

IMO this is why this isn't an NCAA issue.

[Bocephys]

Right.  This is why the school was put on probation by the Higher Learning Commission.  And while athletes were disproportionally represented in these classes, athletes did not make up a majority of students enrolled.

IMO this is why this isn't an NCAA issue.

What benefit does a normal student get out of that arrangement?  Or did word just get out that these were easy GPA boosters?

[GGGG]

What benefit does a normal student get out of that arrangement?  Or did word just get out that these were easy GPA boosters?

I'm sure that's it.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I still don't understand the nonimpermissible benefit argument. The impermissible benefit is that the other 350 schools weren't having fake classes.

Penn State is partly to blame for the cutting out the NCAA's. In my view, their Sandusky sanctions pushback and lawsuits have made the NCAA very skittish about acting on the UNC case. The NCAA is trying to avoid being sued again.

[GGGG]

I still don't understand the nonimpermissible benefit argument. The impermissible benefit is that the other 350 schools weren't having fake classes.

Impermisable benefits are, in part, benefits that athletes receive that other students cannot receive.

So for instance, if every student gets a free laptop provided as a freshman, an athlete can receive one as well.  It doesn't matter if the other 300+ schools don't provide athletes to their students.