Can We Finally End the Gonzaga to Big East Talk?

[Billy Hoyle]

You are right.  Gonzaga doesn't need the BE at this point.  In 1979, Marquette didn't need the BE either.

But coaches retire.  Bad hires are made.  Programs slip.  San Francisco and Loyola Marymount, from that same conference, used to be powerhouses and now they are nowhere.  Gonzaga has to weigh its future interests with its immediate ones.  And I am sure it has.

LMU was a flash in the pan with Gathers and Kimble.  Maybe they would have sustained some success but the lawsuits and house cleaning after Hank's tragic death buried their program.  USF was a powerhouse s but then shut down their program for a while due to major scandals and probation. There is no comparison there.  Gonzaga has 19 years of sustained success, great facilities, a deep and extremely dedicated fan base and financial resources, all things needed to sustain success even after Few leaves, which probably isn't for another 10-15 years.

As for GU to the Big East, again, it will never happen. Providence isn't sending their soccer teams to Spokane annually, Seton Hall isn't sending baseball out there every two years, GU isn't going to send their tennis teams to Georgetown annually. Most flights won't even be direct from Big East schools, increasing the time away from classes which is a huge issue in the NCAA right now in trying to reduce that. And there's that pesky time change issue.  GU would be at a competitive disadvantage in every road contest, losing 2-3 hours per trip. Plus, scheduling is screwed up as GU trips would be the only trips for the weekend for the smaller programs, like Volleyball, whereas now there are 2 contests per weekend.

Even in basketball, for those schools that charter and thus can fly direct you're still looking at increased travel time and, with GU most home games starting at 6 or 7 local time would mean an additional day away from campus instead of being able to return home the night after the game....unless you want to do an overnight flight, meaning that you'll lose the next day as a practice day.

[MU82]

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter because NCAA rules prohibit basketball only membership in conferences. Only football gets to play that game.

Does anybody know why this is a rule? It seems arbitrary. Has anybody ever challenged the NCAA on it or at least proposed otherwise?

[Nukem2]

You are right.  Gonzaga doesn't need the BE at this point.  In 1979, Marquette didn't need the BE either.

But coaches retire.  Bad hires are made.  Programs slip.  San Francisco and Loyola Marymount, from that same conference, used to be powerhouses and now they are nowhere.  Gonzaga has to weigh its future interests with its immediate ones.  And I am sure it has.

Agreed.  But, the logistics are just crazy for other sports.  And, I doubt leagues another poster suggested would entertain taking the Zags non-BB sports.

[Nukem2]

Does anybody know why this is a rule? It seems arbitrary. Has anybody ever challenged the NCAA on it or at least proposed otherwise?

I'm sure that could be changed.  Anyone know the rationale for that rule other than possible poaching?

[StillAWarrior]

The money doesn't make sense right now. If the money were ever to make sense for both sides in the future, it would happen.

I think this debate has been pretty much played out, but I do want to reply to this post only to say, "well, no sh*t."  And if the money ever makes sense for both New Mexico State and the Big East to team up, it will happen.  And Southern Alabama.  And Hawaii.  You're not really going out on a limb to say, "if the money makes sense for everyone involved, it will happen."  The debate, really, is that a lot of people think the money will never make sense for both sides.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think this debate has been pretty much played out, but I do want to reply to this post only to say, "well, no sh*t."  And if the money ever makes sense for both New Mexico State and the Big East to team up, it will happen.  And Southern Alabama.  And Hawaii.  You're not really going out on a limb to say, "if the money makes sense for everyone involved, it will happen."  The debate, really, is that a lot of people think the money will never make sense for both sides.

Of course. My main point is that if geography wasn't a factor, the money would work for both sides and it would happen tomorrow. Some people see the geography and say its "definite no.
Others, including people of power in the Big East and at Gonzaga see it as "no for the moment but let's see if we can find a way to get to yes." There is interest on both sides. They just don't know how to make it work yet.

My impression is that there is less interest on the Big East side than the Gonzaga side at the moment. There will likely be another whirlwind of realignment in the next 6-10 years. Big East is set up as takers at the moment. Its in their interest to wait and see how things are going to play out before rushing into anything.

[79Warrior]

You are right.  Gonzaga doesn't need the BE at this point.  In 1979, Marquette didn't need the BE either.

But coaches retire.  Bad hires are made.  Programs slip.  San Francisco and Loyola Marymount, from that same conference, used to be powerhouses and now they are nowhere.  Gonzaga has to weigh its future interests with its immediate ones.  And I am sure it has.

Marquette was never in the discussion in 1979 for the BE. We never inquired and we also were not asked. MU was still basking in the glow of 1977.

[muwarrior69]

Marquette was never in the discussion in 1979 for the BE. We never inquired and we also were not asked. MU was still basking in the glow of 1977.

Like Gonzaga today, we were not a geographical fit back then and we still valued our "independent" status despite the changing landscape of college basketball at the time.

[brewcity77]

Marquette was never in the discussion in 1979 for the BE. We never inquired and we also were not asked. MU was still basking in the glow of 1977.

I'm not so sure about that. Thought I remembered hearing otherwise, but because of the factors muwarrior69 mentioned it never went anywhere.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I'm not so sure about that. Thought I remembered hearing otherwise, but because of the factors muwarrior69 mentioned it never went anywhere.

But the Big East wasn't founded until 1979, that would have made MU a founding member to an East coast only conference. I suspect Marquette never came up in founding members' discussions.

[brewcity77]

But the Big East wasn't founded until 1979, that would have made MU a founding member to an East coast only conference. I suspect Marquette never came up in founding members' discussions.

Just saying I recall hearing otherwise, but that it never got much further than that. I don't think Marquette had any interest in joining a conference at that point.

[GoldenWarrior11]

If the Big East continues its current trend, one where we continue to get over half of our conference into the NCAA Tournament consistently, and one where we consistently have a team or two make deep runs into the tournament (Villanova last year, Xavier this year), then the Big East will not need to resort to add teams in order to increase the value and perception of the league.  Butler, Creighton and Xavier were home runs for the conference.  They have solidified themselves as the backbone of the reorganized conference, and have become consistent threats to make the tournament every year.  While they were excellent additions, it does not mean that the conference needs to add more in order to strengthen itself.

In order for the league to take another step, St. Johns and Georgetown need to return to their elite levels, and become staples at the top of the league with Villanova.  Marquette can also help with this, and if they can return to the expectations of achieving a deep run in the tournament, watch out. 

[MUDPT]

Some one on here figured out the extra travel cost for MU was $35,000, to travel to Spokane over Dayton. That was for all sports combined.

[oldwarrior81]

Some one on here figured out the extra travel cost for MU was $35,000, to travel to Spokane over Dayton. That was for all sports combined.

that's an amazingly low number if you're talking about each of the 14 teams traveling to Spokane annually.

[wadesworld]

Some one on here figured out the extra travel cost for MU was $35,000, to travel to Spokane over Dayton. That was for all sports combined.

And how about for every single one of Gonzaga's sports teams to travel from Spokane, WA across the country every single week?

[79Warrior]

But the Big East wasn't founded until 1979, that would have made MU a founding member to an East coast only conference. I suspect Marquette never came up in founding members' discussions.

You are  correct. Also, MU was not remotely interested in a conference at that point in time.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And how about for every single one of Gonzaga's sports teams to travel from Spokane, WA across the country every single week?

Not every single week. Half their games are at home.  Non- conference and postseason games also don't count.

It's still a hefty sum of money. But not more than the money boosr they would get from the big easts television contract.

[Nukem2]

Not every single week. Half their games are at home.  Non- conference and postseason games also don't count.

It's still a hefty sum of money. But not more than the money boosr they would get from the big easts television contract.

Whatever the $$ might be, the time zone stuff is still a huge issue.

[wadesworld]

Not every single week. Half their games are at home.  Non- conference and postseason games also don't count.

It's still a hefty sum of money. But not more than the money boosr they would get from the big easts television contract.

Right, and you play 2 games/week on average in BE play, at least for basketball and I would assume other sports that are head to head competition are probably similar.  So, on average, you're playing 1 game/week on the road throughout the conference season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Right, and you play 2 games/week on average in BE play, at least for basketball and I would assume other sports that are head to head competition are probably similar.  So, on average, you're playing 1 game/week on the road throughout the conference season.

They aren't.  Basketball plays more often then most other sports. It is also only the conference season that's affected. The main point is the money gained  from the TV contract would still be greater by a significant margin.

[muwarrior69]

Whatever the $$ might be, the time zone stuff is still a huge issue.

Why? A 6 or even a 7 pm start in Spokane would be 9 or 10 ET.

[Nukem2]

Why? A 6 or even a 7 pm start in Spokane would be 9 or 10 ET.

Sure, but I'm talking about the kids and the staff and school and whatever.   A 3 hour swing over and over is no fun.

[warriorchick]

Why? A 6 or even a 7 pm start in Spokane would be 9 or 10 ET.

Some of us have to get up and go to work in the morning.

[Herman Cain]

Gonzaga is perfectly situated in the WCC. They are in a conference of  religious oriented schools with a double round robin schedule. The WCC has enough good teams to be able to draw multiple NCAA bids. St. Mary's and BYU are programs that can make it to the tournament.

Gonzaga schedules tough teams in the non conference. As long as they keep doing that they will be fine. It appears as if the rest of the conference is moving in that scheduling direction. WCC needs to encourage  the weaker teams to improve or figure out the economics of doing lots of road buy games with good teams to help rpi .

The Big East is very solid the way it is and still has a lot of upside potential organically. A resurgence at Georgetown and St Johns will be of enormous value to all. DePaul has a long way to go, but at least they have something to build around with the new arena.

[muwarrior69]

Some of us have to get up and go to work in the morning.

.....but it is Gonzaga.