14 years ago today. Marquette goes to the Final Four

[B. McBannerson]

Four years ago was nice, 14 years ago was great.  Only the third time in our history.


Marquette defeats #1 Kentucky Wildcats



https://www.youtube.com/v/lR3d255pDhs

[tower912]

I cried when Marquette beat Kentucky. 

[4everwarriors]

Followed bye T-Cubed crappin' down his leg, on college basketball's biggest stage, wit a weak ta prepare for KU's fast break. Butt, he had no answers and da game wuz long over bye half time, ai na?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Followed bye T-Cubed crappin' down his leg, on college basketball's biggest stage, wit a weak ta prepare for KU's fast break. Butt, he had no answers and da game wuz long over bye half time, ai na?

Yep,  Tom got lucky with Wade and deserves no credit for getting Marquette to the final four.  But he deserves all the blame for losing in the final four.   

[4everwarriors]

Exposed his coachin' flaws and da phony he is.
Still hasn't gotten bedder ta dis dey. Witout #3 he'd be a lifer at U of Nebraska-Omaha, hey?

[Galway Eagle]

Exposed his coachin' flaws and da phony he is.
Still hasn't gotten bedder ta dis dey. Witout #3 he'd be a lifer at U of Nebraska-Omaha, hey?

The guy still had three NITs and three non Wade NCAA tournament appearances. That's a bit better than Nebraska Omaha. Most A10 or MWC teams would kill for Crean.

[brewcity77]

I cried when Marquette beat Kentucky.

I remember being somewhat shocked that day. I went up just hoping to cheer them to a good performance, but that Kentucky team looked near unbeatable. They had what, a 26-game winning streak and were the clear-cut #1 team in the country? And then right from the start, we played with them and then were pulling away in the first half. One of those surreal moments when you're not sure if our team is that good or if something is about to go wrong.

Of course, it did end up going wrong, but not until the next week.

[MUfan12]

I had a feeling after watching Wisconsin give UK all they could handle, that MU could beat 'em. Did not see a blowout happening, obviously.

[Goose]

Tower

Goose cried a couple of times that afternoon and evening. Beating Kentucky is always high on the list and doing it on a big stage was awfully cool. Unfortunately, as 4ever said, that next week was one of the low moments in MU history. To make that day worse, a very dear family friend (off the charts MU fan) passed away later that evening.

[Billy Hoyle]

The guy still had three NITs and three non Wade NCAA tournament appearances. That's a bit better than Nebraska Omaha. Most A10 or MWC teams would kill for Crean.

don't try to use logic with that clown and his shtick.

The fact is in the first two rounds Wade was invisible and Crean coached the team to victory. And if it only took one star player to get to a Final Four why didn't Ben Simmons or Markell Faultz make it to the Final Four even make it to the tourney?

Crean rebuilt MU and he rebuilt IU. He'll rebuild another program too.

I guess Lon Kruger sucks as a coach too, according to Goober, considering he lost by 44 to Villanova in last year's final four.

[4everwarriors]

Nice ta see you reed da board and tanks for yo input, Jack, hey?

[Lennys Tap]

The fact is in the first two rounds Wade was invisible and Crean coached the team to victory. And if it only took one star player to get to a Final Four why didn't Ben Simmons or Markell Faultz make it to the Final Four even make it to the tourney?

The fact is that Wade was subpar in rounds one and two but hardly "invisible". He was our leading rebounder (13) and assist man (11) through those games and our second leading scorer (39). And comparing one of the best basketball players of all time to Ben Simmons or Markell Faultz is ludicrous.

[B. McBannerson]

Tower

Goose cried a couple of times that afternoon and evening. Beating Kentucky is always high on the list and doing it on a big stage was awfully cool. Unfortunately, as 4ever said, that next week was one of the low moments in MU history. To make that day worse, a very dear family friend (off the charts MU fan) passed away later that evening.

The lowest NCAA moment in MU history was a one point loss, in my opinion.  People get hung up that we lost a Final Four game by a lot of points?  We lost a first round game in 1978 in what was arguably equivalent to a 16 vs 1 loss, or 15 vs 2 (yes, I'm aware there were not 64 teams back then). 

We have been trounced a number of times in the NCAA tournament, lose by 1 or lose by 30, still going home. Syracuse crushed us 4 years ago. North Carolina in 2011.  MSU in '07. Providence in 1997.  Nova in '80.  Kentucky in '75. 

The journey of making it to the Final Four in '03 far outweighed the loss. I'd rather have that journey than the '78 loss to Miami (OH) in the first game.  That was the most embarrassing loss in our NCAA tournament history.  We earned a Final Four in '03, in '78 we earned nothing.

[Tums Festival]

I cried when Marquette beat Kentucky.

As did I.

[Golden Avalanche]

The fact is that Wade was subpar in rounds one and two but hardly "invisible". He was our leading rebounder (13) and assist man (11) through those games and our second leading scorer (39). And comparing one of the best basketball players of all time to Ben Simmons or Markell Faultz is ludicrous.

+1

The "Wade was invisible" narrative has become just as entrenched as a false truth in MU Scoop history as the "Crean's entire career exists because of Wade" narrative.

[MDMU04]

The fact is in the first two rounds Wade was invisible and Crean coached the team to victory. And if it only took one star player to get to a Final Four why didn't Ben Simmons or Markell Faultz make it to the Final Four even make it to the tourney?

Right, Crean's coaching was the only reason why Diener put up 29 points against Holy Cross and why they didn't miss a single shot or free throw in OT against Missouri.

Those games against the #14 and #6 seeds shouldn't have been anywhere nearly as close as they were. And that is more likely the result of coaching than the performances that were needed to survive the first weekend of that tournament.

[tower912]

+1

The "Wade was invisible" narrative has become just as entrenched as a false truth in MU Scoop history as the "Crean's entire career exists because of Wade" narrative.

I think Crean did a fine job at MU.    I have few complaints.     But when you look at the 18 years he has been a high major coach, how many times has he gotten past the sweet 16 without Wade?     Would you want a coach who's ceiling was the sweet 16 for most of his career, despite having tremendous resources at his disposal?   He landed Wade.    That team went to the final 4.    He deserves full marks for that and I give them to him and appreciate it more than I can say.      What about the other 17 years?

[Golden Avalanche]

I think Crean did a fine job at MU.    I have few complaints.     But when you look at the 18 years he has been a high major coach, how many times has he gotten past the sweet 16 without Wade?     Would you want a coach who's ceiling was the sweet 16 for most of his career, despite having tremendous resources at his disposal?   He landed Wade.    That team went to the final 4.    He deserves full marks for that and I give them to him and appreciate it more than I can say.      What about the other 17 years?

Didn't need this many words to prove my point.

[tower912]

He has a career.    He is a .600 coach over 18 seasons.  He has won big 10 titles and coach of the year awards.  When you look at the totality of  his career objectively,  he is a good coach but not a great coach.   Not a slam.    Not a narrative.   

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8154.msg65935#msg65935

Talk about prescient when hiring a Duke assistant....
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8900.msg74424#msg74424

Another prescient observation
.http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9374.msg80306#msg80306

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11177.msg98807#msg98807
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11747.msg104400#msg104400

[Golden Avalanche]

He has a career.    He is a .600 coach over 18 seasons.  He has won big 10 titles and coach of the year awards.  When you look at the totality of  his career objectively,  he is a good coach but not a great coach.   Not a slam.    Not a narrative.   

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8154.msg65935#msg65935

Talk about prescient when hiring a Duke assistant....
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8900.msg74424#msg74424

Another prescient observation
.http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9374.msg80306#msg80306

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11177.msg98807#msg98807
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11747.msg104400#msg104400

You spent 30 minutes finding ways to slap your back. That's weird.

[MU82]

I was a sportswriter back then and I had a credential to the Minneapolis regional because one of the teams I covered was in that region. But that team lost the previous weekend, so the company would no longer pay me to go.

My wife had a friend I had never met who also went to MU and she and her husband were driving up for the weekend. They offered me a ride, but the idea of riding with strangers, coupled with sitting on press row even though I wouldn't have been working (borderline unethical, though I probably would have found a way to work it into something I was gonna write) made me decide not to go.

One of the worst decisions I've made in the last 20 years.

I loved watching the games on TV, including the KY game with a big contingent of fellow alums, but it would have been something to be there. I envy those who were. Damn!

[tower912]

You spent 30 minutes finding ways to slap your back. That's weird.

More like bored.

[ScopesnotSnopes]

I think Crean did a fine job at MU.    I have few complaints.     But when you look at the 18 years he has been a high major coach, how many times has he gotten past the sweet 16 without Wade?     Would you want a coach who's ceiling was the sweet 16 for most of his career, despite having tremendous resources at his disposal?   He landed Wade.    That team went to the final 4.    He deserves full marks for that and I give them to him and appreciate it more than I can say.      What about the other 17 years?

ScopesnotSnopes to correct the record.

Of those 18 coaching years, 5 were rebuilding.  He also had two years with major injuries (this year OG and Hartmann and the Diener year for MU), but we will count those anyway.

13 years not rebuilding, made the NCAAs 9 times, NIT 3 times, one year no tournament. 

Other fun fact.  His teams have been knocked out by very good to great teams a number of times.

2003 knocked out by National Runner Up Kansas
2008 knocked out by Sweet 16 Stanford in OT
2012 knocked out by National Champions Kentucky
2013 knocked out by Final Four team Syracuse
2015 knocked out by Sweet 16 Wichita State
2016 knocked out by National Runner Up North Carolina

[ScopesnotSnopes]

Right, Crean's coaching was the only reason why Diener put up 29 points against Holy Cross and why they didn't miss a single shot or free throw in OT against Missouri.

Those games against the #14 and #6 seeds shouldn't have been anywhere nearly as close as they were. And that is more likely the result of coaching than the performances that were needed to survive the first weekend of that tournament.

Holy Cross was 25-5 and had won 20 of 21 games coming into that game.  Damn good team.  Missouri, beat Kansas only two games earlier in the Big 12 tournament.  They were in the finals of the Big 12 tournament and lost by 2.  Playing very well. 

If you're going to rip on not running roughshod over Holy Cross and Missouri, then you must be wild over the wins over Pittsburgh and Kentucky where we were the underdog.

[The Lens]

I remember going to the bathroom at halftime at the Metrodome.  We were up big but nobody wanted to say anything.  So much small talk.  You can not overstate how big UK was that season.  Clear #1. 

Of course we should have known we'd win...we own Kentucky in the tournament.