Archie Miller to IU

[Tugg Speedman]

Good point.  Of course, at UD he didn't have to contend with a Michigan State, Ohio State, Minnesota, Wisconsin or the rest of the Big Ten. Everyone is recruiting major talent. Some coaches jump from mid major to high major and can't process how to handle the egos, or the 5* kids that are one and done.  Don't understimate that.

Exactly

Now that Archie is recruiting for IU, he is competing for kids that are talking to 'Tom from Michigan State" and "John from Michigan" and "Matt from Purdue."  Tom will remind them about his 6 FFs and Draymond Green, John will note he is from "Big Blue" ("nuff said") and Matt will note upcoming lottery pick Caleb.  Archie can talk about IU's tradition, developed by others, and what he did at Dayton.

No, I'm not saying Archie will fail.  But while he has a better calling card with IU over Dayton but he is also going against tougher competition.

As I noted before, we'll know really fast if he can recruit, if he lands a decent class by November.  Remember just a few months after Wojo got to MU Carlino grad transferred and Henry committed.  That showed Wojo could recruit.  (and Wojo has continued to follow that up, see this year's Freshman).  Archie needs to show the same or he could be in trouble before Christmas.

[brewcity77]

One guy had 6 NCAA Tournament wins in 6 seasons, the other had 0 NCAA Tournament wins in 9 years...

5 wins. And honestly, as much as Marquette fans mock Dayton, it's probably one of the easiest places to win. As Purnell and Gregory have shown, pretty much any schmuck can win 20+ there more often than not.

[The Lens]

Kansas hired a coach from Illinois
UNC hired a coach from Kansas
Kentucky hired a coach from Memphis (who was in the title game)
UCLA hired a coach from New Mexico nee Iowa

Indiana goes the mid major route.  I guess it's not Indiana.

[B. McBannerson]

I mean as a guy, he sucks.

Maybe he's better with the gals?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/page/QTP_170326TomCreanIndianaWNIT/former-indiana-head-coach-tom-crean-attends-iu-women-wnit-game

[B. McBannerson]

5 wins. And honestly, as much as Marquette fans mock Dayton, it's probably one of the easiest places to win. As Purnell and Gregory have shown, pretty much any schmuck can win 20+ there more often than not.

My opinion, too.  Dayton had been to four straight post season tournaments when Archie took over, including NIT champions.  In the last 10 years, they have missed a post season only one time, and that was with Archie at the helm. 

My comment earlier that it can by 1 or 2 plays that determine a career.  Someone here said Wade fell into Crean's lap, which is not true.  Could not someone make the same claim if it weren't for Dayton making a shot with 3.8 seconds left against Ohio State, then Archie Miller is just another mid major coach?  OSU missed the winning shot that rimmed out from 5 feet.  That's the difference between Dayton in the Elite 8 and Dayton first round exit.  A guy named Vee Sanford made that shot for Dayton.  Vee is the bridge to Archie becoming head coach at Indiana.  Think about it.  IU isn't going to hire Archie Miller without that Elite 8 run.

[GGGG]

Kansas hired a coach from Illinois
UNC hired a coach from Kansas
Kentucky hired a coach from Memphis (who was in the title game)
UCLA hired a coach from New Mexico nee Iowa

Indiana goes the mid major route.  I guess it's not Indiana.

Alford was likely going to be fired and got out while he could to New Mexico.  He wasn't UCLA's first or second choice.  Likely not even third. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

5 wins. And honestly, as much as Marquette fans mock Dayton, it's probably one of the easiest places to win. As Purnell and Gregory have shown, pretty much any schmuck can win 20+ there more often than not.

Methinks the 0 tourney wins was a comparison to Purnell, not Crean

[GGGG]

Really good article on Crean, Miller and IU basketball.

https://theringer.com/archie-miller-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-tom-crean-dbe7b96b398b

"Crean probably deserved better than what Indiana fans ultimately gave him. But Indiana fans deserved better than what Crean gave them, too, and that's what makes his legacy at the school so complicated. To an outsider, Indiana is a college basketball dinosaur supported by a delusional fan base hell-bent on returning to glory days that have long since passed. And that's accurate to a certain extent, as the Hoosiers haven't won a national title since 1987 and have been to only two Final Fours in the last 30 years. But unlike several other programs past their heyday, Indiana has resources that have never gone away. The Hoosiers still have an enormous and rabid fan base, a spot in one of college athletics' richest conferences, an iconic arena, an absurd recruiting budget, and a gold mine of local talent to funnel to Bloomington. The way Indiana fans see it, the problem isn't that an unruly fan base starved for success has perpetuated unrealistic expectations that every coach since Bob Knight has struggled to meet. It's that the fan base is so starved for success because the coaches after Knight have all struggled.

...

This was perhaps Crean's fatal flaw. He never really exuded the Indiana vibe. He was a good coach who was occasionally a very good coach, but he was never a great coach and, more importantly, he was never an Indiana coach. When a culture is as deeply rooted as Indiana's is, fit is crucial, and Crean — like Charlie Strong at Texas football, or Rich Rodriguez during his short-lived tenure at Michigan — was seen as an outsider who didn't truly belong. Crean tried his best, yet for reasons spanning from his mannerisms to his coaching philosophy to his recruiting strategy to his demeanor, he was never fully embraced.

...

The head coach of the Hoosiers is a representative of the entire state and its basketball aura, and that's something Miller seems to grasp better than any Indiana coach who has come along since Knight. More specifically, Miller's values appear to align with what've traditionally been the tenets of Indiana University basketball: selflessness, ball movement, defensive intensity, and high graduation rates. Whether all of this will translate into winning is what matters most, as doing things "the right way" will stop meaning as much if the losses pile up. For many in the area, though, the Hoosiers' pursuit of a sixth national title is a religion. Miller, if nothing else, is ready to preach."

[The Lens]

Really good article on Crean, Miller and IU basketball.

https://theringer.com/archie-miller-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-tom-crean-dbe7b96b398b

"Crean probably deserved better than what Indiana fans ultimately gave him. But Indiana fans deserved better than what Crean gave them, too, and that's what makes his legacy at the school so complicated. To an outsider, Indiana is a college basketball dinosaur supported by a delusional fan base hell-bent on returning to glory days that have long since passed. And that's accurate to a certain extent, as the Hoosiers haven't won a national title since 1987 and have been to only two Final Fours in the last 30 years. But unlike several other programs past their heyday, Indiana has resources that have never gone away. The Hoosiers still have an enormous and rabid fan base, a spot in one of college athletics' richest conferences, an iconic arena, an absurd recruiting budget, and a gold mine of local talent to funnel to Bloomington. The way Indiana fans see it, the problem isn't that an unruly fan base starved for success has perpetuated unrealistic expectations that every coach since Bob Knight has struggled to meet. It's that the fan base is so starved for success because the coaches after Knight have all struggled.

...

This was perhaps Crean's fatal flaw. He never really exuded the Indiana vibe. He was a good coach who was occasionally a very good coach, but he was never a great coach and, more importantly, he was never an Indiana coach. When a culture is as deeply rooted as Indiana's is, fit is crucial, and Crean — like Charlie Strong at Texas football, or Rich Rodriguez during his short-lived tenure at Michigan — was seen as an outsider who didn't truly belong. Crean tried his best, yet for reasons spanning from his mannerisms to his coaching philosophy to his recruiting strategy to his demeanor, he was never fully embraced.

...

The head coach of the Hoosiers is a representative of the entire state and its basketball aura, and that's something Miller seems to grasp better than any Indiana coach who has come along since Knight. More specifically, Miller's values appear to align with what've traditionally been the tenets of Indiana University basketball: selflessness, ball movement, defensive intensity, and high graduation rates. Whether all of this will translate into winning is what matters most, as doing things "the right way" will stop meaning as much if the losses pile up. For many in the area, though, the Hoosiers' pursuit of a sixth national title is a religion. Miller, if nothing else, is ready to preach."

Titus has become my favorite college basketball writer.  He puts his biases out in front and yet is happy to trash tOSU or IU if warranted.  He really seems to hold no agenda and owes no favors.  His Top 12 rankings each week are a must read.

[muwarrior69]

Really good article on Crean, Miller and IU basketball.

https://theringer.com/archie-miller-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-tom-crean-dbe7b96b398b

"Crean probably deserved better than what Indiana fans ultimately gave him. But Indiana fans deserved better than what Crean gave them, too, and that's what makes his legacy at the school so complicated. To an outsider, Indiana is a college basketball dinosaur supported by a delusional fan base hell-bent on returning to glory days that have long since passed. And that's accurate to a certain extent, as the Hoosiers haven't won a national title since 1987 and have been to only two Final Fours in the last 30 years. But unlike several other programs past their heyday, Indiana has resources that have never gone away. The Hoosiers still have an enormous and rabid fan base, a spot in one of college athletics' richest conferences, an iconic arena, an absurd recruiting budget, and a gold mine of local talent to funnel to Bloomington. The way Indiana fans see it, the problem isn't that an unruly fan base starved for success has perpetuated unrealistic expectations that every coach since Bob Knight has struggled to meet. It's that the fan base is so starved for success because the coaches after Knight have all struggled.

...

This was perhaps Crean's fatal flaw. He never really exuded the Indiana vibe. He was a good coach who was occasionally a very good coach, but he was never a great coach and, more importantly, he was never an Indiana coach. When a culture is as deeply rooted as Indiana's is, fit is crucial, and Crean — like Charlie Strong at Texas football, or Rich Rodriguez during his short-lived tenure at Michigan — was seen as an outsider who didn't truly belong. Crean tried his best, yet for reasons spanning from his mannerisms to his coaching philosophy to his recruiting strategy to his demeanor, he was never fully embraced.

...

The head coach of the Hoosiers is a representative of the entire state and its basketball aura, and that's something Miller seems to grasp better than any Indiana coach who has come along since Knight. More specifically, Miller's values appear to align with what've traditionally been the tenets of Indiana University basketball: selflessness, ball movement, defensive intensity, and high graduation rates. Whether all of this will translate into winning is what matters most, as doing things "the right way" will stop meaning as much if the losses pile up. For many in the area, though, the Hoosiers' pursuit of a sixth national title is a religion. Miller, if nothing else, is ready to preach."

Just substitute Marquette for IU and the article could have been written about Wojo replacing Buzz/Crean and a starved hungry for success fan base whose program has struggled since the Al days.

[wadesworld]

Just substitute Marquette for IU and the article could have been written about Wojo replacing Buzz/Crean and a starved hungry for success fan base whose program has struggled since the Al days.

Huh?

[Silkk the Shaka]

Huh?

Haha truly a bizarre comment

[GooooMarquette]

Really good article on Crean, Miller and IU basketball.

https://theringer.com/archie-miller-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-tom-crean-dbe7b96b398b

"Crean probably deserved better than what Indiana fans ultimately gave him. But Indiana fans deserved better than what Crean gave them, too, and that's what makes his legacy at the school so complicated. To an outsider, Indiana is a college basketball dinosaur supported by a delusional fan base hell-bent on returning to glory days that have long since passed. And that's accurate to a certain extent, as the Hoosiers haven't won a national title since 1987 and have been to only two Final Fours in the last 30 years. But unlike several other programs past their heyday, Indiana has resources that have never gone away. The Hoosiers still have an enormous and rabid fan base, a spot in one of college athletics' richest conferences, an iconic arena, an absurd recruiting budget, and a gold mine of local talent to funnel to Bloomington. The way Indiana fans see it, the problem isn't that an unruly fan base starved for success has perpetuated unrealistic expectations that every coach since Bob Knight has struggled to meet. It's that the fan base is so starved for success because the coaches after Knight have all struggled.

...

This was perhaps Crean's fatal flaw. He never really exuded the Indiana vibe. He was a good coach who was occasionally a very good coach, but he was never a great coach and, more importantly, he was never an Indiana coach. When a culture is as deeply rooted as Indiana's is, fit is crucial, and Crean — like Charlie Strong at Texas football, or Rich Rodriguez during his short-lived tenure at Michigan — was seen as an outsider who didn't truly belong. Crean tried his best, yet for reasons spanning from his mannerisms to his coaching philosophy to his recruiting strategy to his demeanor, he was never fully embraced.

...

The head coach of the Hoosiers is a representative of the entire state and its basketball aura, and that's something Miller seems to grasp better than any Indiana coach who has come along since Knight. More specifically, Miller's values appear to align with what've traditionally been the tenets of Indiana University basketball: selflessness, ball movement, defensive intensity, and high graduation rates. Whether all of this will translate into winning is what matters most, as doing things "the right way" will stop meaning as much if the losses pile up. For many in the area, though, the Hoosiers' pursuit of a sixth national title is a religion. Miller, if nothing else, is ready to preach."

So I guess saying "It's Indiana! It's Indiana!" wasn't enough for Hoosier fans to see him as a representative of the aura....

[brewcity77]

Methinks the 0 tourney wins was a comparison to Purnell, not Crean

I know. There was no reference to Crean there whatsoever. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

I know. There was no reference to Crean there whatsoever. 

Ha thought your 5 wins statement was a Crean defense (his tourney wins at MU)

[CreanLover]

So I guess saying "It's Indiana! It's Indiana!" wasn't enough for Hoosier fans to see him as a representative of the aura....

Although Crean uttered this phrase, it became apparent he never understood it. Indiana will be back amongst the blue bloods...count on it.

[Tugg Speedman]

Although Crean uttered this phrase, it became apparent he never understood it. Indiana will be back amongst the blue bloods...count on it.

The best example of the problem in Bloomington is summarized in this short post.

[tower912]

From a good friend and Dayton alum with a long history as sports directors at midwest television stations.... Anthony Grant to Dayton.

Self high-five.

[brewcity77]

Self high-five.

Well played

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Curry didn't have the issue of qualifying to play like Wade did.  Wade's choices were Marquette, Illinois State, DePaul, and Bradley.  DePaul went with a different guard and Wade's final 2 were Marquette and Illinois State, not because he was too small, too weak, or not talented enough to get looks from other schools, but because he didn't have the grades to get him into those schools.  Wade said Michigan was his dream school and was contacting him...until they found out about his grades.  Competing with Illinois State for one of Illinois's best high school basketball players is a Godsend.  He fell into Crean's lap.

Doesnt the articles provided by 4or5 debunk the belief that Wade couldn't qualify at high majors?

[cheebs09]

I guess in the Michigan story, were they not allowed to recruit him by rule? Or just didn't want to risk him never being eligible or having issues at Michigan? If it's the latter, you have to give credit to Crean for taking the risk other schools wouldn't.

[Herman Cain]

Exactly

Now that Archie is recruiting for IU, he is competing for kids that are talking to 'Tom from Michigan State" and "John from Michigan" and "Matt from Purdue."  Tom will remind them about his 6 FFs and Draymond Green, John will note he is from "Big Blue" ("nuff said") and Matt will note upcoming lottery pick Caleb.  Archie can talk about IU's tradition, developed by others, and what he did at Dayton.

No, I'm not saying Archie will fail.  But while he has a better calling card with IU over Dayton but he is also going against tougher competition.

As I noted before, we'll know really fast if he can recruit, if he lands a decent class by November.  Remember just a few months after Wojo got to MU Carlino grad transferred and Henry committed.  That showed Wojo could recruit.  (and Wojo has continued to follow that up, see this year's Freshman).  Archie needs to show the same or he could be in trouble before Christmas.

Miller is an excellent young coach . I am confident he will utilize the assets at his disposal in Indiana very well. College basketball is very competitive and as many have pointed out he could work hard and still only achieve at the same level that Crean did. Then again he could get out of the gates hot and never look back. It only takes 4 good recruits a year for a couple straight year to change the trajectory.

[Herman Cain]

https://theringer.com/archie-miller-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-tom-crean-dbe7b96b398b