MU Has To Change Its Scheduling...

[Murffieus]

Navin Johnson----you present an apples to oranges comparison-----Hawaii was in November and the BE season begins in January-----furthermore the teams we played except for cupcake Charminade were not home teams (neutal floor).

Need to schedule a TOUGH road game in late December in front of a hostile crowd at a long distance from Milwaukee. We lose too many away first time conference away games that we should win

[spiral97]

been enough convo about that so I just started up this thread in the suggestions board: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=5414.0

Until we all agree on something, please please please no more teal colored text. *beg*

[mu03eng]

Navin Johnson----you present an apples to oranges comparison-----Hawaii was in November and the BE season begins in January-----furthermore the teams we played except for cupcake Charminade were not home teams (neutal floor).

Need to schedule a TOUGH road game in late December in front of a hostile crowd at a long distance from Milwaukee. We lose too many away first time conference away games that we should win

But Murff you are the same person that always complains about a late season swoon.....wouldn't a December tough road game only further fatigue us once we go into conference play?

Also this is BS.....the only players that have never played in front of Big East road crowd is Christopherson and he played in the last minute of garbage time.  These players have played and won at Pitt, at Louisville, and at UConn in the last two years.....how much difference would a game in December really make?  In fact the majority of the players played at WVU the last time we got spanked there.

Lastly, look at all the major school's schedule......there are very very few that schedule tough games, let alone tough road games within 3 weeks of the start of conference play.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Actually, a cupcake schedule like ours would be understandable if we were inexperienced and needed some confidence builders. The fact that we do have experience...as mu03eng explains...makes this year's schedule all the more inexcusable.

Of course, Chicos has already used the athletic budget as an excuse. That's right out of the talking points since we know that they're practically lighting cigars with $20 bills at The Al. 

[Big Papi]

So if we rattle off 4 or 5 straight wins starting with Seton Hall do we

a) Still gripe about the schedule not preparing us  or
b) Give props to the schedule for preparing some of our younger guys with actual playing experience


The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.  We are not an elite team like NC.  We will have some stinkers.  We will win some big ones.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.

I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!

[IAmMarquette]

The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.

I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!

LOL. PRN, at least you can agree with the topic at hand.

[ecompt]

Murff, you can't get more hostile than Madison, and we won there. I'm sorry the Celtics were booked for late December.

[Marquette84]

Once again, it's time to insert a little fact.

Here is the sum total of road games played by Big East teams between 12/15 and 12/31 this year:

12/19:  USF @ Wake Forest
12/19:  West Virginia @ Radford
12/22:  Georgetown @ Memphis
12/22:  West Virginia @ Canisius
12/23:  Cincy @ NC State
12/28:  UConn @ Central Florida
12/29:  DePaul @ Detroit
12/29:  Pitt @ Dayton

Source:  MU Media Guide, composite Big East Schedule pp 97-99

There were several additional neutral court games at events including the San Juan shootout, Rainbow Classic, Wooden Invitational, etc, but I've excluded those because, as Murff says, those are apples versus oranges.

You make it sound like everyone but MU plays tough road games.  Take out the DePaul, UConn and WVU wins, at teams that don't fit the description of "TOUGH" and we find that just four big east teams--Pitt, Georgetown Cincy and USF--played tough road games in late December.  Let's look at how they did in their first road games:


USF lost at Syracuse, despite playing at Wake Forest two weeks prior.
Georgetown won at Rutgers, but can you seriously credit it to playing at Memphis?
Cincy won at UL, lost at St. Johns --
Pitt lost at Villanova--that game at Dayton didn't help them win.

That sure doesn't make the case that a tough road game helps you win.

[wadesworld]

We lose too many away first time conference away games that we should win

Really?  We should have won that game?  Sorry but winning at West Virginia is not easy.  Vegas didn't think we should have won...we were underdogs.  Yes, we have a great team (STILL...even with a loss...imagine that, a great team having a bad day...unheard of, right?) and have a CHANCE to beat any opponent at any venue, but I don't think it's very fair to say we SHOULD have won that game yesterday.  We played poorly and lost to a good team.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.

I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!

Speaking of punishing loyalty are you going to the late start-time game tomorrow night?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.

I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!

Speaking of punishing loyalty are you going to the late start-time game tomorrow night?

no doubt Crean scheduled these 8 pm games just to piss off PRN.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually prn, iused the schedule and ncaa tourney excuse (which leads to money).

We have a great formula that is proven, a formula used by almost all the top schools that results ib post season bids and money to fund the department.

We can't be like ohio state (I'm here in vegas wathcing the game)....$105MM budget so we'll have to go with what we know works and has treated mu well for decades.

This isn't hard

[ernie]

philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.

Gross overreaction after a road loss but you got your desired attention.

I have to agree. I think "attention" is why 4everwarriors post. Can you imagine how sad that is? A grown adult gets pleasure by anonymously posting comments solely designed to irritate people on an internet board. Wow.

[muPARTY]

i echo the 'understanding the need for cupcake games', but how about this strength of non conference schedule....

Villanova, @ Notre Dame, Wisconsin, @ Dayton, & Wake Forest

yep, those were the top non-conference games from the 2002-2003 season for our Marquette Golden Eagles.


it just proves having a strong non-conference schedule can work (even at MU with mbb being the revenue sport) and it does do some good for a team later in the season.

[mu03eng]

i echo the 'understanding the need for cupcake games', but how about this strength of non conference schedule....

Villanova, @ Notre Dame, Wisconsin, @ Dayton, & Wake Forest

yep, those were the top non-conference games from the 2002-2003 season for our Marquette Golden Eagles.


it just proves having a strong non-conference schedule can work (even at MU with mbb being the revenue sport) and it does do some good for a team later in the season.

Yeah but remember that we also schedule those games when we were in C-USA playing the likes of UAB and USF and East Carolina.  We don't play nearly that easy of a conference schedule anymore

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Actually prn, iused the schedule and ncaa tourney excuse (which leads to money).

We have a great formula that is proven, a formula used by almost all the top schools that results ib post season bids and money to fund the department.

We can't be like ohio state (I'm here in vegas wathcing the game)....$105MM budget so we'll have to go with what we know works and has treated mu well for decades.

This isn't hard

Chicos -- How can you say that when we're spending $41K for a breathing chamber and bringing in assistants (probably two of them) who make at least $200K per year? This is not to mention wasteful spending like renting a limousine to take Crean to visit recruits in the middle of the night?

I understand we have budget issues, but it seems to me that a) we're not as poor as we claim; b) there isn't nearly enough oversight in the athletic department as there should be and c)we're using these cupcake games not as part of some magic formula, but to line the athletic department coffers for more wasteful spending!

When you were at MU, was the program spending like they are now? I highly doubt it. My point is...why don't we try spending a little less on crap and, instead, give the fans a decent non-conference home game once every other year (and a road one on alternate years).

[muPARTY]

Yeah but remember that we also schedule those games when we were in C-USA playing the likes of UAB and USF and East Carolina.  We don't play nearly that easy of a conference schedule anymore

first of all, USF we do play and barely beat them last yr on a last sec shot.
UAB beat us that yr in the Conference Tournament, they also went on to win the C-USA reg season title in 04-05 (we didn't)

the Big East has it's cupcakes at the bottom, plus C-USA was strong for a couple years there toward the end (final 3 seasons) with i believe 6 teams going to the dance in 05 (MU not being one).  hell 5 of them are Big East teams now.

i'm not trying to be a dick here, i was just pointing out that MU has had a very good balance of cupcakes and top-tier teams scheduled in the non-conference and it occurred in a season that turned out to be pretty good.

[TallTitan34]

It's like clockwork.  No matter the Marquette message board,  there's always a thread on scheduling.

It's about time for a nickname debate thread I believe.  

Don't click this Spiral and Rocky!
Maybe we could have a board for never ending topics and all the nickname/scheduling threads could be viewed there!

[AlumKCof93]

I think the schedule needs to be tougher just to increase the entertainment value of the season - I feel like I'm going to get ripped for that - but aside from the Wisconsin game, what was the point of December?  It was just a whole lot of nothing, but waiting for the conference season to begin.  Couldn't we have added a decent name to the schedule just to generate some interest. What's the point of beating Savannah State?  

And I do think the cupcake schedule affected our performance against WV.  I realize that WV was ranked and is a good team, but a team we should definitely beat.  In watching the game, it seemed to me that MU thought it could turn it on when we wanted to - we didn't play with the same type of urgency that was required against a team like WV.  The turn-it-on mindset occurs when a team gets full of itself as MU might have done after feasting on so many cupcakes and then beating Providence so easily.  Playing a more legitimate opponent in December may have kept MU honest on Saturday.

[NavinRJohnson]

but aside from the Wisconsin game, what was the point of December?

The point is primarily money. Not sure why people don't understand that, or have such a problem with it. I'd prefer to see Savanah St, and IPFW replaced with UCLA, and Memphis as much as the next guy, but I also don't live in fantasy land. If I want good lower level seats for the Big East games, I have no choice but to buy a full season, and pay for all of those games. I  don't necessarily like it, but I understand it and I do it. Every team college and pro does this in some respect. Whether it is buy games, seat licenses, you name it. MU is charging what the market will bear. Giving up that extra game or two to schedule a home and home or two would be nice from a good will perspective, but would be very expensive.

[mu03eng]

Yeah but remember that we also schedule those games when we were in C-USA playing the likes of UAB and USF and East Carolina.  We don't play nearly that easy of a conference schedule anymore

first of all, USF we do play and barely beat them last yr on a last sec shot.
UAB beat us that yr in the Conference Tournament, they also went on to win the C-USA reg season title in 04-05 (we didn't)

the Big East has it's cupcakes at the bottom, plus C-USA was strong for a couple years there toward the end (final 3 seasons) with i believe 6 teams going to the dance in 05 (MU not being one).  hell 5 of them are Big East teams now.

i'm not trying to be a dick here, i was just pointing out that MU has had a very good balance of cupcakes and top-tier teams scheduled in the non-conference and it occurred in a season that turned out to be pretty good.

Party, I see your point, but what I was poorly trying to say is the aggregate schedule is at a minimum the quality as in 2003 and I would argue better this year.  The conference schedule is much better this year, but the non-conference is lesser this year compared to 2003.  So I'm arguing that the conference schedule improvement was better than the non-conference degradation.

[The Lens]

The current admin likes the setup...sexy pre season tourney where hype & press is available, Bucky and a ton of filler that helps get you to the once important 20 win plateau.

We will always be successful in the sexy preseason events b/c we prepare harder than everyone and as long as Bucky is good, it makes us look good.

The University has yet to say no to Tom Crean, money is not the issue (see Chamber, Hyperbaric).  The issue is, it's working, so why fix it.  We've gotten to the Dance, we're getting tickets sold.  I don't like it but that's the way it is now.

[Marquette84]

And I do think the cupcake schedule affected our performance against WV.  I realize that WV was ranked and is a good team, but a team we should definitely beat.  In watching the game, it seemed to me that MU thought it could turn it on when we wanted to - we didn't play with the same type of urgency that was required against a team like WV.  The turn-it-on mindset occurs when a team gets full of itself as MU might have done after feasting on so many cupcakes and then beating Providence so easily.  Playing a more legitimate opponent in December may have kept MU honest on Saturday.

Can you please explain how we managed to beat UConn in 2006?  Based on your assessment, after feasting on the cupcakes I don't see how it was possible to play with the intensity required to smoke the Huskies like we did.  

In fact, can you please explain how we managed to beat Providence!  Unless you're going to argue that PC is essentially no better than Savannah State, your same prinicple should apply to that game as well--feasting on cupcakes should have provided no preparation whatsoever to play a quality team like Providence--even in their injury weakened state.  

Frankly, I think the problem against WVU this year (and Cincy in 2006) is NOT that we beat cupcakes handily, but that we won our first CONFERENCE game so handily!

To accept your viewpoint, one must to believe that our players completely ignored that we blew out Providence and UConn!  

Plus you have to think our players are absolute idiots to suggest that they equate Savannah State and West Virginia.    

Wouldn't anyone with half a brain instantly understand that Providence is MUCH CLOSER to the talent level of West Virginia than Savannah State is?  

But you're seriously suggesting here that our players saw Providence as no different than a cupcake--and in fact think more of their ability based on their play against the cupcakes rather than their play against Providence.

Let's be real:  the reason why our players thought they could turn it on when they wanted against West Virginia is NOT because they beat cupcakes, but because the beat PROVIDENCE so handily!  Period.  

And then, lest they had any self doubt that the win over Providence wasn't just against an weak team due to injuries, our players saw DePaul and Providence play a close game--PC missed a game-tying 3 with under 10 seconds to go.

Same thing in 2006.  UConn comes in ranked #2 in the country, and we beat them and made it look easy.

Do you really feel that when our guys stepped on the court against Cincy that they were thinking back about Lewis?  Complete BS!  They were thinking about UConn--you and I both know that.  

So when our guys stepped on the court against West Virginia, do you REALLY believe that they were NOT thinking about PROVIDENCE, and instead thinking about Savannah State and Coppin State?

[Murffieus]

SJS/84----every team is different on how they handle road games----UCONN was a HOME game. We have struggled early on on the road over the years------IMO need a quality road game just before the BE season starts!