Coaching Carousel 2017

[Galway Eagle]

Missouri is the South?  .

"Although it is usually today considered part of the Midwest, Missouri was historically considered by many to be a border state, chiefly because of the settlement of migrants from the South and its status as a slave state before the Civil War, balanced by the influence of the St. Louis."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

You know it would be interesting to see if Self interviews for the UNC or Duke job after K and Williams retire. Kansas seems like it's fallen a bit in terms of its blue blood status and I think the only way Marshall leaves Wichita state is if KU opens up

Are u freaking kidding me?  They won a national title not too long ago , sign rarely anything but mcdonalds allamericans,  have won a rugged big 12 for 13!!! Straight seasons and are currently the #1 ranked team in the country!!
My goodness that has to be the most innaccurate statement i have read in a long while

[warriorchick]

"Although it is usually today considered part of the Midwest, Missouri was historically considered by many to be a border state, chiefly because of the settlement of migrants from the South and its status as a slave state before the Civil War, balanced by the influence of the St. Louis."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri

Yeah, screw geography.....

You would be hard-pressed to get anyone from the actual South to agree that Missouri is a southern state.  As I recall, it was a little controversial when they got admitted to the SEFC.

[Galway Eagle]

Are u freaking kidding me?  They won a national title not too long ago , sign rarely anything but mcdonalds allamericans,  have won a rugged big 12 for 13!!! Straight seasons and are currently the #1 ranked team in the country!!
My goodness that has to be the most innaccurate statement i have read in a long while

9 years ago is not "not too long ago". I was on a date just last week with a KU girl who was going on about how upset she was that KU chokes every year compared to their "peers". Once again its success that we'd kill for but in Selfs span of time UConn has won 3, Florida (1 more FF), Duke (1 more FF) and UNC (2 more FF) have won 2. Additional peers like UK has won 1 but been to 3 more FF and Louisville has won one with 2 more FF. That puts Kansas at least 7th in Selfs tenure and depending on how much more important championships are than FFs you could say Michigan St's 4 FFs has been better as well.

Obviously Self is a good coach but blue bloods fire good coaches when their expectations aren't realistic.

[GGGG]

9 years ago is not "not too long ago". I was on a date just last week with a KU girl who was going on about how upset she was that KU chokes every year compared to their "peers". Once again its success that we'd kill for but in Selfs span of time UConn has won 3, Florida (1 more FF), Duke (1 more FF) and UNC (2 more FF) have won 2. Additional peers like UK has won 1 but been to 3 more FF and Louisville has won one with 2 more FF. That puts Kansas at least 7th in Selfs tenure and depending on how much more important championships are than FFs you could say Michigan St's 4 FFs has been better as well.

Obviously Self is a good coach but blue bloods fire good coaches when their expectations aren't realistic.

Well hell, if a 20-something year old thinks Kansas is no longer a blue blood, WTF do we know?

But seriously, before last year, UNC hadn't been to the Final Four since 2009.  Before winning the title in 2015, Duke had one Final Four appearance over ten years.  Before 2013, Louisville hadn't won a title since the mid-80s.  Florida?  Those two titles were ten years ago and they have been to one Final Four since.

Piece of advice:  If she is that entitled now, you may want to stay away.

[Babybluejeans]

9 years ago is not "not too long ago". I was on a date just last week with a KU girl who was going on about how upset she was that KU chokes every year compared to their "peers". Once again its success that we'd kill for but in Selfs span of time UConn has won 3, Florida (1 more FF), Duke (1 more FF) and UNC (2 more FF) have won 2. Additional peers like UK has won 1 but been to 3 more FF and Louisville has won one with 2 more FF. That puts Kansas at least 7th in Selfs tenure and depending on how much more important championships are than FFs you could say Michigan St's 4 FFs has been better as well.

Obviously Self is a good coach but blue bloods fire good coaches when their expectations aren't realistic.

Just, no. People said the same thing about Roy Williams when we was at KU...except unlike Self he never actually won the big one there. Yet Roy wasn't going anywhere if KU had its say and neither is Self. Not hyperbole - there's a 0% chance Self get canned.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Regarding NC State Job:

Names hearing on top of NC State's wish list are Butler's Chris Holtmann and VCU's Will Wade. Will be interesting to see if Debbie Yow can get either.

- Jeff Goodman

Really hoping Holtmann stays around.  Hard to believe he'd think NC State is an update over what he is building at Butler. 

[Goose]

Jamil

Just curious, what has changed in a few short weeks? I would still take Rick's SLU and by a wide margin. A top 10 coach that built program into a winner. I hope we are comparing Wojo to Rick down the road.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Missouri is 100% the south.

Kansas is 100% still a blue blood. Its hard to win a national championship.

[bilsu]

Missouri is 100% the south.

Kansas is 100% still a blue blood. Its hard to win a national championship.

I am going by memory, but I think Kentucky only has one title in the last 9 years and that is probably with three times the McDonald's all-Americans that Kansas had.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Jamil

Just curious, what has changed in a few short weeks? I would still take Rick's SLU and by a wide margin. A top 10 coach that built program into a winner. I hope we are comparing Wojo to Rick down the road.

Unlike you, a few weeks ago, I wasn't calling for pitchforks and wasting my time on a message board lamenting about a team I said I didn't care enough about to attend a huge game, with free tickets, mind you.

I respected the fact that Wojo is building something and you take the highs with the lows. I also respected the fact that the season wasn't over and that 9-9 or better and we're dancing. Fast forward a few weeks, were 10-8, and likely looking at something between a 7-10 seed. And this team has the ability to win some games in this tournament.

It's not a Wojo vs Rick thing. It's a you stating you'd prefer to be SLU circa 2012 versus where we stand today. To me, that's comical.

[naginiF]

Missouri is 100% the south.

Kansas is 100% still a blue blood. Its hard to win a national championship.

As a Missourian (by tenure not birth) nobody in KC or StL would consider themselves southerners.  The rural communities near Tenn and Ark?  Maybe - but no different than those rural parts of IL near Kentucky.

I think the vast majority of state residents would say Midwest.  I admit the slavery history does provide a great argument the other way - but i don't believe MO was ever a confederate state.

[Goose]

Jamil

Are you serious? Pitchforks? Lamenting about a team I did not care about it? Try and remember why I would not go a specific game with free tickets. It was the same reason 2500 other paid patrons stayed home. Sub par opponent at less than desirable time. The one and only time I get down on the program was around the GT game.

Of course it is a Rick vs Wojo thing. What the fxxk else would it be?Rick was an A++ coach, especially when he worked at, and had the start of a very nice run beginning at SLU prior to his illness. For the record, aside from Rick, I want nothing to do with anything SLU related. If you have read my posts over the years you would know my comment was 100% based off Rick vs. Wojo.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Jamil

Just curious, what has changed in a few short weeks? I would still take Rick's SLU and by a wide margin. A top 10 coach that built program into a winner. I hope we are comparing Wojo to Rick down the road.

Why would you take Rick's SLU over Wojo's Marquette? SLU was a house of cards being held together by a great coach. It immediately fell to the bottom third of D1 as soon as Rick moved on. Marquette is still a top 25 program that is getting stronger every year under a green coach. If Wojo were to leave, it would still be a top program.

Its not like SLU was even that impressive on the court. They had one good year under Rick where they went 26-8 in the A10, earned a 9 seed and made the Round of 32. Now for SLU that was amazing, but again, I would much rather have Marquette's team this year than Rick's best SLU team. Not to mention, that year took place in Rick's 5th season in St. Louis. In his 4th season, he went 12-19. Scoop would have run Rick out of town before he even got that great season!

Now if you are you saying you would rather have Rick Majerus at his prime for a coach than the current version of Wojo, I would agree with you. But I would never want Marquette to resemble SLU's program in any way, shape, or form.

I'm not sure if Rick's first three years as a head coach were any better than Wojo's were. Hard to compare the two since college basketball is so wildly different now.

[Goose]

TAMU

Why are you young guys so fxxk'in literal. My point I was would have taken Rick's last SLU Feb/March over our season. Who in the right fxxk'in would think ANYONE would want anything to do with SLU? I have said 1000 times on year on how I do not want MU to become SLU.

For the record, SLU has sucked for the majority of their history, more years than not Rick called it in early and did not care and for three months the stars aligned. Rick was not building anything at SLU, rather doing it with band aides and a very high basketball/coaching IQ.

All that said, I do hope someday Wojo is compared to Rick in regards to coaching success.

[brewcity77]

Not aiming this at anyone in particular...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

Why are you young guys so fxxk'in literal. My point I was would have taken Rick's last SLU Feb/March over our season. Who in the right fxxk'in would think ANYONE would want anything to do with SLU? I have said 1000 times on year on how I do not want MU to become SLU.

For the record, SLU has sucked for the majority of their history, more years than not Rick called it in early and did not care and for three months the stars aligned. Rick was not building anything at SLU, rather doing it with band aides and a very high basketball/coaching IQ.

All that said, I do hope someday Wojo is compared to Rick in regards to coaching success.

Maybe because you said multiple times that you would take Rick's SLU over Wojo's Marquette? If you had just said Rick over Wojo, people would have understood better and agreed. Of course that's not an apples to apples comparison. You are comparing someone in their first three years of head coaching to someone who had a lifetime of head coaching experience.

Better question might of been who had a better first three years, Wojo or Rick? Rick had three straight years of NIT. Wojo had two no postseason and what looks like 1 NCAA. NIT was definitely more prestigious in Rick's time but my assumption is that he had a better starting point than Wojo coming off two straight NCAAs and 17 straight years of postseason basketball. Personally, think its impossible to accurately compare the two.

All I really know is that its too early too declare Wojo a success or a failure at this point. But all the signs I see are pointing towards success.

[Goose]

TAMU

Too early on Wojo to call it either way and I think too early to take a guess. I think next year is going to be a major challenge. Losing 3 of top 8 will not be easy to replace. IMO, next year is when we will know if Wojo can hack it or not.

For the record, there are folks on here that truly do not know better but I know you do know better. You know my expectations of the program and who could seriously think I would want anything to do with SLU comparison.

As for Rick vs Wojo early comparisons, but very big underachievers by my standards. I would say Rick was a much bigger disappointment, and that is coming from a guy who loved Rick. Wojo gets the edge also in recruiting by wide margin, due to HE and Howard. Rick lost his HE and Wojo landed his. That is one thing that gives me real optimism. Guys that can recruit always win.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Why would you take Rick's SLU over Wojo's Marquette? SLU was a house of cards being held together by a great coach. It immediately fell to the bottom third of D1 as soon as Rick moved on. Marquette is still a top 25 program that is getting stronger every year under a green coach. If Wojo were to leave, it would still be a top program.

Its not like SLU was even that impressive on the court. They had one good year under Rick where they went 26-8 in the A10, earned a 9 seed and made the Round of 32. Now for SLU that was amazing, but again, I would much rather have Marquette's team this year than Rick's best SLU team. Not to mention, that year took place in Rick's 5th season in St. Louis. In his 4th season, he went 12-19. Scoop would have run Rick out of town before he even got that great season!

Now if you are you saying you would rather have Rick Majerus at his prime for a coach than the current version of Wojo, I would agree with you. But I would never want Marquette to resemble SLU's program in any way, shape, or form.

I'm not sure if Rick's first three years as a head coach were any better than Wojo's were. Hard to compare the two since college basketball is so wildly different now.

This is pretty much exactly what I meant.  But you wrote it much better, and I didn't have time to dive into it today.  Well done, as usual, TAMU.

[BM1090]

TAMU

Too early on Wojo to call it either way and I think too early to take a guess. I think next year is going to be a major challenge. Losing 3 of top 8 will not be easy to replace. IMO, next year is when we will know if Wojo can hack it or not.

For the record, there are folks on here that truly do not know better but I know you do know better. You know my expectations of the program and who could seriously think I would want anything to do with SLU comparison.

As for Rick vs Wojo early comparisons, but very big underachievers by my standards. I would say Rick was a much bigger disappointment, and that is coming from a guy who loved Rick. Wojo gets the edge also in recruiting by wide margin, due to HE and Howard. Rick lost his HE and Wojo landed his. That is one thing that gives me real optimism. Guys that can recruit always win.

See, I think next year it's clear that we're better. Froling/John can replace Luke, especially if we're replicating the style we're currently playing. JJ? It's tough to replace the guy who's locked in, but the guy who doesn't care half the games? Some combo of Jamal, Duane, (Greg Elliot) make him replaceable.

Honestly, the toughest guy to replace is KR in my opinion. I know his shooting numbers are low but he's the only guy of the three that seems to be a leader. But I think Sam, Markus and Rowsey will be effective leaders next year.

[Goose]

Eagle

I am not saying it is impossible to replace those three guys. I am saying next year should tell a ton about Wojo the coach. At this point, I think it can go either way and time will tell.

[MUMountin]

Yeah, screw geography.....

You would be hard-pressed to get anyone from the actual South to agree that Missouri is a southern state.  As I recall, it was a little controversial when they got admitted to the SEFC.

Not really sure what this thread is about anymore, but thought I'd throw these links in on this point:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/which-states-are-in-the-south/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/

[cheebs09]

I'm kind of curious about this team against the 09-10 midgets team. Buzz is lauded for doing a great coaching job just to get that team in the tournament. That team had an NBA All-Star, First round pick, Buycks, and DJO who got a sniff of the NBA. Granted they've had a lot of improvement post-MU, but that's a lot of talent.

They didn't shoot quite as well as this team, and were smaller. However, they had two senior guards leading the way and Lazar.

They lost a lot of heartbreakers and big leads, especially earlier in the year. I'd say the Big East was tougher, but also had more bad teams.

 I just think Wojo isn't getting enough credit for taking an obviously flawed team, and getting it to play good basketball at the end of the year. Granted, it's debateable whether our defense is scheme or personnel (I lean towards scheme). However, Buzz gets a lot of credit for a great coaching job, and I think Wojo's team is comparable to that team.

[TallTitan34]

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanESPN

Sources told ESPN that LSU intends to pursue some “big names.” Not sure if the Tigers can land them, but worth a try.

[nyg]

Not really sure what this thread is about anymore, but thought I'd throw these links in on this point:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/which-states-are-in-the-south/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/

Thanks.  Just another Scoop thread taken over by Wojo arguments.  Coaching Carousel with nice coaching changes discussions to SLU/Majerus/now Buzz....jeez.