This is progress

[Goose]

Boxer

Little choice but try and be positive. This is not the program I would like to see, but hoping Wojo delivers the goods.

[Galway Eagle]

Boxer

Little choice but try and be positive. This is not the program I would like to see, but hoping Wojo delivers the goods.

Fair enough. You certainly seem to come off more positive as of late than previously so heres to hoping that he delivers and makes that continue

[Goose]

Boxer

I will go as far backwards as needed, if end game is higher tier program. My expectations, sadly, has lowered a great deal as what higher tier looks likes for MU.

[naginiF]

Yeah, say that last line in a job interview and see what happens.

I had a "Gentleman's C" once.  Not a lot of shame but it cost me $200.


Uncertain is Vogue/VagueAF right?

[Lennys Tap]

Wow.  Tough grader.

So only one student can get an A+, even if there are 351 kids in the class?

About 251 of those 351 are "students" are auditing the course, though.

[GGGG]

How is that any different than what Wojo is trying to do/in the process of doing?

Cleaned up the program, got his guys in, progressed each year to a point we are now most likely a tournament team in year three.

Simple.

KO followed Dukiet.  Wojo followed Buzz.

[Herman Cain]

MU82

Grade for KO for year 3 (?) probably F on the court and an A for everything else. There was no one close to the KO situation that cared about instant on court success if the end game was winning at a high level. I can assure you I told him to his face (after too many beers) the on court was an F.

I do not have any confidence, AT THIS POINT, that Wojo will win at a high level at MU. Note--I do not believe it is not possible, just far for confident on it.

What are the key reasons for your lack of confidence that Wojo will win at a high level at MU?

[connie]

What are the key reasons for your lack of confidence that Wojo will win at a high level at MU?

Not to me, but the lack of a track record, the lack of any individual players' significant improvement, and the fact that we have had very different teams in each of the three years Wojo has been here are all causes for concern. 

[rocky_warrior]

Uncertain is Vogue/VagueAF right?

_ee_e

[naginiF]

_ee_e

Wrong user IDed
Shouldn't have to hide his name
Rants are the new norm

[BallBoy]

Not to me, but the lack of a track record, the lack of any individual players' significant improvement, and the fact that we have had very different teams in each of the three years Wojo has been here are all causes for concern.

Lack of Track Record - Name one coach in the last 40 years that had a better track record prior to Marquette and had success.  The closest is Mike Deane who coached powerhouse Siena prior to taking over.  He was not successful. Crean was a high level assistant coach with less experience.  Buzz had less experience.  Crean struggled in a lower league before getting the ship correct.  Wojo is more experienced then both and he inherited a team not nearly as good as Buzz had.

Lack of Significant player improvement - Matt Heldt has gotten significantly better.  Markus Howard is very good.  Hauser is very good.  If you look at the team Wojo's players are the best players on the team.  Year over year his teams have gotten much better.  That is what is important.

Different Teams - He has had different teams.  He inherited a very limited team and had to go get a fifth year senior just to be competitive.  Year 2 he had a first round NBA player who was one and done.  He left and started over.  Each year the team has gotten better and he is starting to build steam. 

Let's be honest.  Those people who don't like Wojo don't like him because of Duke. 

[bilsu]

This year is turning out pretty good and we will likely make the NCAA tournament. I also believe next year we will be better than this year and I would not not said that at the start of this season.

[muwarrior69]

Yeah, say that last line in a job interview and see what happens.

I am sure you are right. Especially in today's corporate world. When I interviewed for my second job after graduation; I, to my surprise, got a really bad reference from one of my MU Professors but still got the job. Everyone was impressed with my attitude and work ethic. I really appreciated that my new boss told me not to use that Professor as a reference on future job interviews. Grade Point is not everything. I think the most important factor is: are you a good fit.

[JD]

Not to me, but the lack of a track record, the lack of any individual players' significant improvement, and the fact that we have had very different teams in each of the three years Wojo has been here are all causes for concern.

Where does one even start with this...

[brewcity77]

and the fact that we have had very different teams in each of the three years Wojo has been here are all causes for concern.

What about the fact that Buzz was lauded for the same thing? The play style of the Amigos, Midgets, and the first Sweet 16 teams were dramatically different. So it's a plus for Buzz and a negative for Wojo?

Here's the way I see it. There are people that were against Wojo from there start. Whether it's the Duke background (and I suspect that's 99.9% of it), the lack of experience, or not a flashy name, they simply won't come around.

Those same people aren't fans of his perceived lack of openness. Like K, he's built a wall around the program and is a fairly stale interview. These are the same people who were raised on Al, reborn under KO, and felt they'd found a spiritual successor in Buzz. While they certainly value winning, they want Marquette to do so in an interesting, eccentric way. They hate the idea of Marquette being a bland, disciplined program as much as they hate seeing Marquette lose.

That's why they can't embrace Wojo and why they diminish his accomplishments. By any measurement, Wojo has shown continued improvement and success the past three years. If you aren't excited about players like Howard and Hauser (as well as Henry last year) then honestly what do you want? This is progress, and anyone around the program that doesn't see it is choosing to be willfully blind.

And last point, I'm really sick of the whole "if you'd been around the program and given as much as I have" line of BS. Some of us weren't born that long ago, some of us don't have the means. Commitment isn't measured by a date of birth or a bank account. I'm glad for those that have enjoyed a long time of Marquette success and done well for themselves, but that doesn't make you a better fan than anyone else on here.

[GGGG]

What about the fact that Buzz was lauded for the same thing? The play style of the Amigos, Midgets, and the first Sweet 16 teams were dramatically different. So it's a plus for Buzz and a negative for Wojo?

Here's the way I see it. There are people that were against Wojo from there start. Whether it's the Duke background (and I suspect that's 99.9% of it), the lack of experience, or not a flashy name, they simply won't come around.

Those same people aren't fans of his perceived lack of openness. Like K, he's built a wall around the program and is a fairly stale interview. These are the same people who were raised on Al, reborn under KO, and felt they'd found a spiritual successor in Buzz. While they certainly value winning, they want Marquette to do so in an interesting, eccentric way. They hate the idea of Marquette being a bland, disciplined program as much as they hate seeing Marquette lose.

That's why they can't embrace Wojo and why they diminish his accomplishments. By any measurement, Wojo has shown continued improvement and success the past three years. If you aren't excited about players like Howard and Hauser (as well as Henry last year) then honestly what do you want? This is progress, and anyone around the program that doesn't see it is choosing to be willfully blind.

And last point, I'm really sick of the whole "if you'd been around the program and given as much as I have" line of BS. Some of us weren't born that long ago, some of us don't have the means. Commitment isn't measured by a date of birth or a bank account. I'm glad for those that have enjoyed a long time of Marquette success and done well for themselves, but that doesn't make you a better fan than anyone else on here.

Well done.

I also think people are Monday morning quarterbacking a little bit.  Kevin O'Neill got to have Tony Smith as a senior on his first team and that lead him to the NIT.  But I distinctly remember listening to the MCC tournament on the radio back in 1991 when they lost in the quarterfinals to SLU. I thought "this program is going nowhere."  I was wrong.  He was building something that took until his fourth year to get to the tournament.

I also think we are a little to close to see what is happening.  People outside the program see what Wojo is doing and understand the progress.  We are still comparing him to Buzz, which is nonsensical and not really all that fair.  Take a step back and objectively look. 

[muguru]

I have to admit..though i do see what Wojo is building..my frustration stems from the fact that the program bottomed out like it did to begin with..especially after where it had been and where it had the potential to go..it was like two steps forward and 5 steps backward.

Larry and Pilarsz are the reason it happened and for that, I will never forgive them.

[fjm]

I have to admit..though i do see what Wojo is building..my frustration stems from the fact that the program bottomed out like it did to begin with..especially after where it had been and where it had the potential to go..it was like two steps forward and 5 steps backward.

Larry and Pilarsz are the reason it happened and for that, I will never forgive them.

Guru, I can completely understand that frustration. But that can't be all on Wojo. That is 50% Wojo at best.

Brew:
Great post. Sadly people root for or against the coaches and not for the team. We are a top 3 point shooting team in the country with great guards and sat play.

Does our D need work? Damn straight it does! Does Wojo need to work on his in game coaching? Definitely still.

But to say Wojo is not getting the job done, or to refuse to see progress because you are old and crochity and are the "get off my lawn" guy of the board is ridiculous.

[brewcity77]

Larry and Pilarsz are the reason it happened and for that, I will never forgive them.

They contributed to it, but it was Buzz that made that roster. Buzz recruited Derrick, Juan, Steve, Mayo, Dawson, Eonte, and the rest of them. Carlino was our best player and the only actual Wojo recruit.

Beyond that, it was on the administration that gave Pilarz and Williams their marching orders. When they left, it was on Robert Wild and Bill Cords, who didn't relax the restrictions Buzz felt were too much to deal with.

And why did those marching orders come out? Back to Buzz recruiting players that couldn't have graduated under any circumstance.

I know you don't care about that stuff, but the powers that be do. It's absolutely something that reflects on the University, and the basketball program is an extension and representation of the University, not the other way around.

At the end of the day, blame Buzz. He recruited those players and his recruiting decisions made the Pilarz/Williams direction necessary in the first place. Yes, we bottomed out under Wojo, but that would've happened whether the coach was Wojo, Buzz, or Al McGuire.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Does our D need work? Damn straight it does! Does Wojo need to work on his in game coaching? Definitely still.

But to say Wojo is not getting the job done, or to refuse to see progress because you are old and crochity and are the "get off my lawn" guy of the board is ridiculous.

FJM with all due respect progress and getting the job done are two different things.   In my mind there are three separate questions - are we getting better, are we at the goals set by the program and is the current leadership able to get us to the goals of the program.

Objectively its yes, no -- the third is subjective and that is the debate.

Maybe I've reached crotchety land but from what I've seen this isnt an age exclusive.

[GGGG]

Slightly different topic, but I wonder if Wojo would have handled Deonte differently now that he has more experience under his belt.  Of all the transfers out, he really is the only one that I look back and think "what could have been."  With the driving lanes that are opening up with these shooters?  And it's not like his defense was any worse than some of the other players on this team.

[forgetful]

Slightly different topic, but I wonder if Wojo would have handled Deonte differently now that he has more experience under his belt.  Of all the transfers out, he really is the only one that I look back and think "what could have been."  With the driving lanes that are opening up with these shooters?  And it's not like his defense was any worse than some of the other players on this team.

Except he would never pass it to the open shooters.  I like Deonte and am glad he is doing well.  He is an amazing talent, but he would make this team worse not better.

[GGGG]

Except he would never pass it to the open shooters.  I like Deonte and am glad he is doing well.  He is an amazing talent, but he would make this team worse not better.

Yeah after you said this I looked up his stats.  He has a .493 eFG.  That would rank him 9th on this Marquette team, just ahead of Haanif Cheatham at .490.

Nevermind.  Bad thought.

[Lennys Tap]

Except he would never pass it to the open shooters.  I like Deonte and am glad he is doing well.  He is an amazing talent, but he would make this team worse not better.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this analysis.

[Goose]

Burton would make this team worse? Sorry, I don't understand that one.