MLB 2017 Season

[Shaka Shart]

It would have been a hyperbole if I said he should have used a golf club.

You did say a tag up was the greatestplay in World Series history a few months ago.

[TallTitan34]

Also one comment on the Arrieta thing...  it's pretty well known the Orioles screw up the pitchers in their system by trying to get them to all pitch to their system.

[TallTitan34]

You did say a tag up was the greatestplay in World Series history a few months ago.

[wadesworld]

Honest question for all Cubs fans who think Arietta has never taken PEDs. Beyond any players who have failed a drug test and been suspended by the MLB already, over/under 0.5 players currently in the Cubs organization that have taken PEDs. What are you taking?

[Shaka Shart]

That tag up was huge.  They don't walk Rizzo to get to Zobrist without it.

(Granted Rizzo could have hit a home run which obviously would be a better outcome.)

Yes it was a great heads-up play. Just pointing out hyperbole. Let's get back to discussing whether Arrieta takes PEDs.

[Shaka Shart]

Honest question for all Cubs fans who think Arietta has never taken PEDs. Beyond any players who have failed a drug test and been suspended by the MLB already, over/under 0.5 players currently in the Cubs organization that have taken PEDs. What are you taking?

[brewcity77]

Honest question for all Cubs fans who think Arietta has never taken PEDs. Beyond any players who have failed a drug test and been suspended by the MLB already, over/under 0.5 players currently in the Cubs organization that have taken PEDs. What are you taking?

Seriously, this is the height of stupidity. How long has this argument been going on? Over a year now, right? You've made absolutely zero headway convincing anyone you're right. Similarly, no one has convinced you. It's the same argument, the same posts every time.

I'd take the over for the Cubs. I'd take the over for every single team in baseball. Because that's human nature. When you have an organization with over 100 players top to bottom, someone probably tried something once. But it's irrelevant, because no one will ever win a debate where no one will ever give ground, so what's the damn point?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Also one comment on the Arrieta thing...  it's pretty well known the Orioles screw up the pitchers in their system by trying to get them to all pitch to their system.

Yep, like Zach Davies...

[robmufan]

Honest question for all Cubs fans who think Arietta has never taken PEDs. Beyond any players who have failed a drug test and been suspended by the MLB already, over/under 0.5 players currently in the Cubs organization that have taken PEDs. What are you taking?

Easy, I believe Quintana was suspended 50 games as a member of the yankees mets (or just released by the mets)...what were the odds on the over? I am here to collect!

[wadesworld]

Easy, I believe Quintana was suspended 50 games as a member of the yankees mets (or just released by the mets)...what were the odds on the over? I am here to collect!

Guess you missed the whole "beyond any players who have failed a drug test and been suspended by the MLB already" part.

[robmufan]

Guess you missed the whole "beyond any players who have failed a drug test and been suspended by the MLB already" part.

I might have, I don't often like to read everything

[GGGG]

Haven't you guys figured out that wades never gives an inch and responds every time?  So if you are tired of his responses, don't engage him.

[wadesworld]

I might have, I don't often like to read everything

So you start your reading in the middle of a sentence in the middle of a post?  Nice.  I'll have to give that a try today.

[wadesworld]

With back to back last inning losses, the Brewers could really use some time to recharge.  Maybe they should consider calling today's game due to rain.

[MerrittsMustache]

Big one for the Cubs to steal last night. No matter what happens over the weekend, they'll still be in first place come Monday. Knebel's error in Pittsburgh is even bigger now since the Brewers lost that game and he wasn't available tonight and Jeffress blew the save. The Cubs looked like they were sleep-walking through most of the game and I honestly think that seeing Thames and the Brewers get visibly amped up (not in a disrespectful way) after his hit in the 8th woke the Cubs up a bit. Baez is always excitable but even-keel Kris Bryant was showing some emotion after his blast in the 10th. Win at least one of the next three and the Cubs will be in a very good position.

Cranky, old veteran vs. a rookie tonight. Lackey's been pretty good in his last 3 starts (pitching, that is, not his behavior over a missed call). The Cubs could use a deep outing from him tonight and/or a bunch of runs. Davis and Wilson likely won't go tonight so it'll be interest to see who closes if need be. Duensing? Edwards? Should be another fun one!

Sidenote: Stadium only 84% full?! Where was everybody? Watching the NFL game?

[MerrittsMustache]

With back to back last inning losses, the Brewers could really use some time to recharge.  Maybe they should consider calling today's game due to rain.

Don't take the bait, Vander!

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Says the guy who literally just asked me to provide him with the numbers to show the velocity of his pitches throughout his career AFTER making the claim that his velocity hasn't changed throughout his career. And then AFTER that pulls up some random website nobody's ever used and says "hey look I found the numbers that I claim I had already seen but obviously hadn't or I wouldn't be asking you to find them and then saying hey look I found them!"

Here you go, "genius."


http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4153&position=P

Not too hard to comprehend. Slider in 2010 with Baltimore comes in at 85.3. In 2015 it's at 90.8. Hmm. No velocity change there at all.

But yeah I'm full of sh!t, despite telling you the exact numbers while you literally claim you'll be waiting because the numbers can't be found. Lol. This is too good.

Here's an idea. Next time you think to yourself, "I don't think I can find this information," go to this website called Google.com, type in what you're trying to find, and chances are you'll find it. It takes like 15 seconds max usually. Worth it.

I never claimed his velocity never changed THROUGHOUT his career. Not once. I also asked you to provide a link because you made a specific claim which gives you the burden of proof.

Let me try to explain this to you like you are a child.

-You claimed Arrieta used PEDs to become the "best pitcher in baseball" in his age 29 season. (2015)
-You later also indicate he would have used in his age 28 season (2014) based on his success.
-The lower velocity on the slider you reference is in 2010, his age 24 season. You then reference the 5 mph increase by 2015, a period of 5 years.
-Let me repeat - 5 years. Nevermind that the velocity on that pitch gradually increased over time during these 5 years as he moved into his physical prime.  This was not a one year or even a two year jump.
-The biggest jump on his slider was actually between 2011 and 2012. Yet during this time period he was still terrible in Baltimore. If he was using PEDs during this point why didn't his performance follow suit?  That's the narrative you keep pushing.
-From the time he joined the Cubs in July of 2013 until becoming "the best pitcher in baseball" in 2015, his velocity on the slider, and really all of his pitches, was extremely consistent. Most differences on a month-by-month basis were negligible.
-Logically, you claim that PEDs are responsible for his success. Yet any velocity increases occurred over a long period of time while his performance remained well below average. His velocity at the time of becoming a Cub, where he first found success after changing his mechanics as he was entering his prime, had basically leveled off. 
-Logically, this disputes the entire basis for your argument. The numbers don't show what you think and say they do.
-If PEDs are responsible for his success, why did his velocity increase over a period of multiple years yet we did not see the same improvement in his outcomes? It just doesn't add up.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you move the goalposts.

[wadesworld]

I never claimed his velocity never changed THROUGHOUT his career. Not once. I also asked you to provide a link because you made a specific claim which gives you the burden of proof.

Let me try to explain this to you like you are a child.

-You claimed Arrieta used PEDs to become the "best pitcher in baseball" in his age 29 season. (2015)
-You later also indicate he would have used in his age 28 season (2014) based on his success.
-The lower velocity on the slider you reference is in 2010, his age 24 season. You then reference the 5 mph increase by 2015, a period of 5 years.
-Let me repeat - 5 years. Nevermind that the velocity on that pitch gradually increased over time during these 5 years as he moved into his physical prime.  This was not a one year or even a two year jump.
-The biggest jump on his slider was actually between 2011 and 2012. Yet during this time period he was still terrible in Baltimore. If he was using PEDs during this point why didn't his performance follow suit?  That's the narrative you keep pushing.
-From the time he joined the Cubs in July of 2013 until becoming "the best pitcher in baseball" in 2015, his velocity on the slider, and really all of his pitches, was extremely consistent. Most differences on a month-by-month basis were negligible.
-Logically, you claim that PEDs are responsible for his success. Yet any velocity increases occurred over a long period of time while his performance remained well below average. His velocity at the time of becoming a Cub, where he first found success after changing his mechanics as he was entering his prime, had basically leveled off. 
-Logically, this disputes the entire basis for your argument. The numbers don't show what you think and say they do.
-If PEDs are responsible for his success, why did his velocity increase over a period of multiple years yet we did not see the same improvement in his outcomes? It just doesn't add up.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you move the goalposts.

Wait, what?  I brought up the claim?  Uhh, no, you're the one who said his velocity has never changed, which I showed is clearly false.  You asked for his velocity from his rookie year to present day, but now you're going to dispute that because it changed over the course of his career rather than one night it's not valid?  What will you look for next?

Wow, the guy's month by month velocities didn't vary much.  I'm shocked, I'll tell ya.  Because that's definitely the time you'd see the increase in production with PED use because the MLB has so much time off to train in season.  You definitely wouldn't see it from one year to the next through an offseason when he goes from a guy who can't stay under a 4.50 ERA to suddenly a 2.53 ERA.  Hmm...

But yeah, his month to month velocities within seasons are the same.  No chance he took steroids!  It's indisputable, what was I thinking?

Again, this stuff is great.  Mind blowing, really.

[TallTitan34]

Yep, like Zach Davies...

This.  Another great example.

What is it going to take for the O's to realize their system isn't working?  They have the pitching talent but destroy it.

[TallTitan34]

Honest question for all Cubs fans who think Arietta has never taken PEDs. Beyond any players who have failed a drug test and been suspended by the MLB already, over/under 0.5 players currently in the Cubs organization that have taken PEDs. What are you taking?

I'm guessing every team still has a handful of players on PEDs.  I mean if Dee Gordon is taking them anyone could be.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Haven't you guys figured out that wades never gives an inch and responds every time?  So if you are tired of his responses, don't engage him.

I enjoy making him look foolish and I find his inexplicable responses that fly in the face of reason and logic fascinating.

[wadesworld]

I enjoy making him look foolish and I find his inexplicable responses that fly in the face of reason and logic fascinating.

The irony of that coming from a guy who uses "baby face," "chubby," and "month to month velocity consistency" as proof that guys haven't used PEDs.  LOL!

[WI inferiority Complexes]

I'm stealing this from someone. But I wanna do it.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Wait, what?  I brought up the claim?  Uhh, no, you're the one who said his velocity has never changed, which I showed is clearly false.  You asked for his velocity from his rookie year to present day, but now you're going to dispute that because it changed over the course of his career rather than one night it's not valid?  What will you look for next?

Wow, the guy's month by month velocities didn't vary much.  I'm shocked, I'll tell ya.  Because that's definitely the time you'd see the increase in production with PED use because the MLB has so much time off to train in season.  You definitely wouldn't see it from one year to the next through an offseason when he goes from a guy who can't stay under a 4.50 ERA to suddenly a 2.53 ERA.  Hmm...

But yeah, his month to month velocities within seasons are the same.  No chance he took steroids!  It's indisputable, what was I thinking?

Again, this stuff is great.  Mind blowing, really.

Not surprising that you ignored every point that discredits your point of view. To be expected.

You must have struggled mightily in logic at Marquette.

Look at the numbers on a month-by-month and year-over-year basis combined with his performance and how his career has progressed and you don't have a leg to stand on.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Don't take the bait, Vander!

I'm just embarrassed for him at this point.