MLB 2017 Season

[Lennys Tap]

I find it interesting that you condemn and then are OK with cheating in the same post.

And I find it interesting that you make no distinction between murder and jaywalking.

[Jockey]

And I find it interesting that you make no distinction between murder and jaywalking.

I believe you said you're fine with Rose breaking the rules but have an issue with PED users breaking the rules.

If I misread your post, I apologize.

[Lennys Tap]

I believe you said you're fine with Rose breaking the rules but have an issue with PED users breaking the rules.

If I misread your post, I apologize.

Jockey - I'm not fine with Rose breaking the rule. He (rightfully) has suffered for his sins, I just don't think betting on your own team TO WIN or on other games is cheating the game or your opponents. Anabolic steroids and HGH (IMO) is. Sorry if I was unclear.

[Jockey]

Jockey - I'm not fine with Rose breaking the rule. He (rightfully) has suffered for his sins, I just don't think betting on your own team TO WIN or on other games is cheating the game or your opponents. Anabolic steroids and HGH (IMO) is. Sorry if I was unclear.

Probably my fault.

But we obviously disagree. I don't think Rose should ever get in the HOF. I don't care if PED users do - as long as it is noted on their plaques.

[GGGG]

https://sports.yahoo.com/giving-hall-fame-vote-joe-morgans-letter-144738128.html

[buckchuckler]

https://sports.yahoo.com/giving-hall-fame-vote-joe-morgans-letter-144738128.html

If the media had done a better job of reporting, much of the steroid nonsense could have been nipped in the bud. 

If Morgan's letter is what broke the line for Passan, he is the same hypocrite he derides in that article. 

[MU82]

I just don't think betting on your own team TO WIN or on other games is cheating the game or your opponents.

You're Pete Rose, an inveterate gambler. You are the player/manager of the Cincinnati Reds. You know you shouldn't gamble on baseball because there has been a sign in every clubhouse you have ever entered stating that gambling on baseball it is expressly forbidden and that the consequences will be severe if that rule is ignored.

You figure, "Yeah, I know all of that stuff, but nobody really could have a problem with me betting on my own team to WIN, right? After all, that's the opposite of 'fixing' a game!" So you put $30K on tonight's game ... and you really need to win this bet, because you are a shytty gambler and you are in debt up to your famous bangs.

It's the eighth inning and you're leading 3-2. You have a really good closer, but you just about never use him for more than one inning. Besides that, you have used him 4 of the last 5 days and you know you shouldn't use him at all tonight. But you need to win that bet. So, to hell with it ... he's going in!

The closer struggles through the eighth, throwing 32 pitches, and the Cardinals tie the game. But you march him right back out there for the ninth because you need to win that bet. After the closer throws his third pitch, he screams in agony. Turns out, he has blown out his arm. He's done for the season. And the guy who replaces him gives up the winning run, so you're out the $30K anyway. Which means you need to double-down tomorrow.

Tomorrow's game arrives. You have your ace on the mound. The guy is a total stud and has a 1.12 ERA over his last 7 starts. But he also has thrown complete games in 5 of those starts, and he already has surpassed his career high for innings pitched. But you need a great game from him. Especially with your bullpen problems. And especially with $60K on this effen game!

Your ace is laboring, and it's only because of his mental toughness that he has limited the damage to 3 runs through 6 innings. He has thrown 121 pitches. But you're leading only 4-3, and you can't take a chance on the bullpen. It doesn't matter that it's already the first week in September and you're 14 games out of a playoff spot - meaning the game is meaningless. It isn't meaningless to you! You've got $60K on the freakin' thing, and you just lost $30K yesterday. So you send the starter back out there for the seventh inning. Two pitches in, the starter feels some pain in his right shoulder. You go out to check on him and tell him to suck it up - it's not an injury, just a little pain, you tell him, and there's a difference. Two pitches later, the ace is done for the year. After seeing William Andrews, it is determined he needs Tommy John surgery and might miss the following season, too.

Shall I go on? There are all kinds of situations in which a manager who has placed a bet on his own team might manage a game differently just because of that bet. And that different managing could affect playoff races of other teams - thereby cheating your opponents.

It is baseball's greatest sin, and Rose knew it.

Then he spent years and years and years lying about it.

[GGGG]

If the media had done a better job of reporting, much of the steroid nonsense could have been nipped in the bud.   

That’s a dumb take. Blaming the media?

[buckchuckler]

That’s a dumb take. Blaming the media?

Hmm.  Just dumb eh.  I was trying to get to your level but I guess I still have to decay a bit. 

Not blaming the media.  But they were accessories.  Do you think reporters covering Bonds etc. did their jobs well and asked the right questions?  Think any of them maybe sat on information for better access?  Did they spread nonsense stories about new bats?  Did they get caught up in what they were covering so much so they missed obvious signs of steroid usage?

Clearly it was the players fault.  Then a combo of the  MLBPA and the MLB.  But the media played a role.  They media failed at reporting the truth (which used to be their job).  Even after Ken Caminitti.  During Sosa and McGwire.   All throughout Bonds' chase and 100 more examples.  They were complicit or oblivious.  Neither is much better than the other.

Passan makes no sense.  He had no problem voting previously as the Hall included all those people about which he wrote that are now so objectionable.  He didn't seem to care until Joe Morgan stood up for what he thinks the Hall means.  That makes no sense.  So if that is how Passan regards the privilege of his HOF vote, the process is better off without him.

[MU82]

As a member of the media during the height of the steroid era, I generally agree with buckchucker.

The media all too often fawned over the likes of Sosa and McGwire. I am not proud to admit I was guilty of it myself some.

Now, my rationale was that the whispers were only whispers and that nothing was proven. There wasn't even a Mitchell Report yet. I hated the idea of assuming guilt - especially given that the alleged perpetrators hadn't even been charged with anything.

But yes, we were complicit.

I even remember when an AP reporter named Steve Wilstein discovered Andro in McGwire's locker - and the vast majority of his fellow media members took him to task instead of McGwire.

As hard as Mariotti was on most of his subjects, he loved Sammy and defended him relentlessly.

Etc, etc, etc.

And then when those who were revered turned out to be among the worst steroid cheats, many in the media turned on them. Mariotti certainly turned on Sosa, for example. I think in many cases it was more for the "betrayal" - I stood up for you, and now you do this "to me"? - than for the juicing.

It pains me to make these admissions. FWIW, this isn't the first time I have made them.

[GGGG]

Hmm.  Just dumb eh.  I was trying to get to your level but I guess I still have to decay a bit. 

Not blaming the media.  But they were accessories.  Do you think reporters covering Bonds etc. did their jobs well and asked the right questions?  Think any of them maybe sat on information for better access?  Did they spread nonsense stories about new bats?  Did they get caught up in what they were covering so much so they missed obvious signs of steroid usage?

Clearly it was the players fault.  Then a combo of the  MLBPA and the MLB.  But the media played a role.  They media failed at reporting the truth (which used to be their job).  Even after Ken Caminitti.  During Sosa and McGwire.   All throughout Bonds' chase and 100 more examples.  They were complicit or oblivious.  Neither is much better than the other.

Passan makes no sense.  He had no problem voting previously as the Hall included all those people about which he wrote that are now so objectionable.  He didn't seem to care until Joe Morgan stood up for what he thinks the Hall means.  That makes no sense.  So if that is how Passan regards the privilege of his HOF vote, the process is better off without him.

I think your take was dumb. I think this post is even dumber.

[Lennys Tap]

I think your take was dumb. I think this post is even dumber.

Mike (82) was there covering baseball as a member of the media and agrees with Buckchuckler's take. I followed baseball very closely then and agree with him also. Maybe you could explain why you disagree with us rather than just calling us dumb and dumber. Thanks in advance.

[GGGG]

I don’t respect your opinions on the matter. They are poor.

[tower912]

I don’t respect your opinions on the matter. They are poor.

Sultan, I am usually on your side.   Not this time.   It is not enough to say "your opinion is poor."    Explain your rationale.   

[GGGG]

Sultan, I am usually on your side.   Not this time.   It is not enough to say "your opinion is poor."    Explain your rationale.   

I don’t care if it is not enough in your eyes. Or anyone else’s.

[Jockey]

I don’t respect your opinions on the matter. They are poor.

Did Jay Bee hijack your account? I thought he was the only one who was this condescending.

[MU82]

As Dad used to yell: "Because I said so!"

[buckchuckler]

I don’t respect your opinions on the matter. They are poor.

Ok tough guy.  You are enlightened.  I always forget how awesome you are to you.



 

[buckchuckler]

I don’t care if it is not enough in your eyes. Or anyone else’s.

Poor Sultan.

[GGGG]

No buck. You don’t understand. I think you are almost always wrong. Therefore my opinion is validated. Got it?

[buckchuckler]

No buck. You don’t understand. I think you are almost always wrong. Therefore my opinion is validated. Got it?

^^Me right now.

I'm happy you're validated though. 

[tower912]

Jack Morris and Alan Trammell to hall of fame.     Almost as big a smile inducer for me as the MU win.   

[MerrittsMustache]

The Hall of Good for a Long Time enshrines two more.

[CTWarrior]

Trammell is every bit as good as the average shortstop in the HOF, so he does not lower the HOF standard.  Don't see how you have Ozzie Smith and Barry Larkin and not Alan Trammell.  I think Morris absolutely lowers the HOF standard for starters.  Highest ERA ever for a HOF starter, and he did not pitch in a high run scoring era for his career.  5% better than average ERA for his career.

Basically, he has no argument over guys like Tommy John, Luis Tiant, or Jim Kaat other than game 7 of the 1991 World Series.  So he is in the HOF because Lonnie Smith was a dumb base runner.