Mind Boggling Stat

[ecompt]

Can MU's defense be very poor and unlucky? I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. In fact, to be as bad as we are, there probably has to be elements of both.

I know the team prepares a defense for each opponent, and but there are games where I swear whatever the players have been told about an opponent's tendencies go out the window. Do we ever force teams into doing what WE want them to do?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I know the team prepares a defense for each opponent, and but there are games where I swear whatever the players have been told about an opponent's tendencies go out the window. Do we ever force teams into doing what WE want them to do?

Opponents salivate when they play MU.  Bench players thrive even more knowing they have a good shot at scoring in double digits.  Confidence, I'm sure, plays a role.

[MuMark]

How about this......if we had average luck.....our defense would be less poor.

[GoldenDieners32]

Opponents salivate when they play MU.  Bench players thrive even more knowing they have a good shot at scoring in double digits.  Confidence, I'm sure, plays a role.

Agreed. Also once a player starts making shots, their confidence goes us against a trash MU defense

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

How about this......if we had average luck.....our defense would be less poor.

No.  Luck has nothing to do with it. Coaching does.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No.  Luck has nothing to do with it. Coaching does.

Nothing is a strong word. That implies that there is no luck in basketball, which simply isn't true. However, good coaching can overcome bad luck 9 times out of 10.

This thread wasn't meant to excuse the defense. The defense is piss poor. It was just noting a weird statistical anomaly. To be in last in conference by 18% in any stat is an oddity. For one so heavily based on luck, it is even weirder.

[jesmu84]

No.  Luck has nothing to do with it. Coaching does.

Incorrect, again. My god. Read the article. Use some logic.

You have good points you make elsewhere. Here, not so much

[Henry Sugar]

Instead of luck, substitute the words "high variance". There are probably 12-20 threes attempted per game (reduced denominator) and they count for 150% of the points (increased numerator).

Just from scanning the chart JB posted in his article, I'd guess MU is probably 2+ standard deviations from the rest of the league in this aspect of defense. While MU's defense is bad, that shouldn't justify 2+ standard deviations of results from a pretty specific situation.

Remember that a team has very little control over how many threes an opponent makes. The opponent's offense is in control of that.

[Badgerhater]

If a team plays good man-to-man defense, there will be very few wide open catch-and-shoot opportunities when the opposing team is in a half-court set.

[GGGG]

If a team plays good man-to-man defense, there will be very few wide open catch-and-shoot opportunities when the opposing team is in a half-court set.

Again, that's not the point of this statistic.  It isn't the number of open shots they are giving up.  It is the rate of open shots the other team is making.  As Sugar points out, if this were a slight variance, you could probably attribute it to poor defense.  But two standard deviations?  That's pretty remarkable.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If a team plays good man-to-man defense, there will be very few wide open catch-and-shoot opportunities when the opposing team is in a half-court set.

As Jay bee pointed out, we actually don't give up very many unguarded catch and shoots. Our opponents just make them at an absurd rate

[T-Bone]

...It rubs some people the wrong way when grown men attack 17-22 year olds who are playing a game for their enjoyment. Others it doesn't. You can't control how people react to you. All you can control is what you do. So if it bothers you that people are treating you this way, you can either change your delivery or you can deal with it. I don't care either way.

Fixed.
Drink.
And agreed. 

[Badgerhater]

As Jay bee pointed out, we actually don't give up very many unguarded catch and shoots. Our opponents just make them at an absurd rate

It doesn't take too many times to kill you if the wrong player is left wide open.  Which players are getting the catch and shoots?  It is not a team's worst shooters, it appears to be the players who are outstanding shooters....the very people who should not be left wide open when playing man-to-man defense in the half court.

Now teams do run plays to get their Steve Novak types a wide open shot, but good defensive teams don't let that type of player be that open very often.   

[PGsHeroes32]

I didn't say it bothered me at all. You seemed to be confused why people are reacting to you the way they are. It rubs some people the wrong way when grown men attack 18-22 year olds who are playing a game for their enjoyment. Others it doesn't. You can't control how people react to you. All you can control is what you do. So if it bothers you that people are treating you this way, you can either change your delivery or you can deal with it. I don't care either way.

The only people that seem to be bothered are people like yourself

Who ironically "whine" about "whining" when I'm not even whining.

Saying "wtf is luke doing" isn't "attacking a man" it's asking a question. This cannot be argued.

If I said "luke fishcher is a worthless piece of crap who sucks ass at basketball" that would be attacking.

I don't have an agenda like some and go after players. I don't dislike any 1 player on this team. I was actually one of the only sane people to not just pile on Katin for a poor start.

I point garbage play by the team. It's always accurate, not my fault on a sports discussion forum some people only want to hear positives.

And btw, luke is a grown man. So even if I did "attack" it's not weird.

[Newsdreams]

It doesn't take too many times to kill you if the wrong player is left wide open.  Which players are getting the catch and shoots?  It is not a team's worst shooters, it appears to be the players who are outstanding shooters....the very people who should not be left wide open when playing man-to-man defense in the half court.

Now teams do run plays to get their Steve Novak types a wide open shot, but good defensive teams don't let that type of player be that open very often.

Except it is not the best shooters or their "Steve Novak" type it is happening way over the average by players that do not even shoot the 3 very well. My guess is knowing that no one over 6'-4" is coming to contest the shot might give some confidence. Don't know but it mis a real incredible stat.

[GGGG]

Except it is not the best shooters or their "Steve Novak" type it is happening way over the average by players that do not even shoot the 3 very well. My guess is knowing that no one over 6'-4" is coming to contest the shot might give some confidence. Don't know but it mis a real incredible stat.

I think that describes what might be occurring better than anything.  Along with a little luck.

[MuMark]

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/05/14/defending-three

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The only people that seem to be bothered are people like yourself

Who ironically "whine" about "whining" when I'm not even whining.

Saying "wtf is luke doing" isn't "attacking a man" it's asking a question. This cannot be argued.

If I said "luke fishcher is a worthless piece of crap who sucks ass at basketball" that would be attacking.

I don't have an agenda like some and go after players. I don't dislike any 1 player on this team. I was actually one of the only sane people to not just pile on Katin for a poor start.

I point garbage play by the team. It's always accurate, not my fault on a sports discussion forum some people only want to hear positives.

And btw, luke is a grown man. So even if I did "attack" it's not weird.

First off, we all know that you aren't a grown man until you're 40.

Again, didn't bother me in the slightest. You seemed genuinely confused why some people were rubbed the wrong way by the game thread. I don't think its that they only want to hear positives. I think some people interpret "WTF is he doing" as angry yelling, not as pointing out bad play. That bothers some people. Others it doesn't. Really, who t f cares we're just a bunch of nerds who care way too much about college basketball.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It doesn't take too many times to kill you if the wrong player is left wide open.  Which players are getting the catch and shoots?  It is not a team's worst shooters, it appears to be the players who are outstanding shooters....the very people who should not be left wide open when playing man-to-man defense in the half court.

Now teams do run plays to get their Steve Novak types a wide open shot, but good defensive teams don't let that type of player be that open very often.

I have wondered if that was a factor. Just leaving the wrong person open. Could be. I really don't have the ability to look up which specific players were left open. Still, I don't know if that accounts for us being 2 standard deviations away from the rest of the BE in this stat.

[PGsHeroes32]

First off, we all know that you aren't a grown man until you're 40.

Again, didn't bother me in the slightest. You seemed genuinely confused why some people were rubbed the wrong way by the game thread. I don't think its that they only want to hear positives. I think some people interpret "WTF is he doing" as angry yelling, not as pointing out bad play. That bothers some people. Others it doesn't. Really, who t f cares we're just a bunch of nerds who care way too much about college basketball.

Well to be fair

He said that me and sandknit "hammer a guy for anything"

Lumping me in with that guy's crazed obsession with hammering Luke/JJJ

I hammer the whole team equally on poor play. And immediately praise good play as well.

So ultimately it's less how my anger is interpreted. And more so his complete cluelessness on the different between me and Sandknit(whom I ironically got pissed 2 games ago because I praised Luke).

Just point out to unleash he's an idiot. Can't properly call someone out

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Well to be fair

He said that me and sandknit "hammer a guy for anything"

Lumping me in with that guy's crazed obsession with hammering Luke/JJJ

I hammer the whole team equally on poor play. And immediately praise good play as well.

So ultimately it's less how my anger is interpreted. And more so his complete cluelessness on the different between me and Sandknit(whom I ironically got pissed 2 games ago because I praised Luke).

Just point out to unleash he's an idiot. Can't properly call someone out

That's fair. Probably some guilt by association there. It seemed like there was a good two pages in there where you and Sand Knit were the only posters.