Henry

[Afroman]

MU should not recruit a player like Henry Ellenson because on the rare occurrence they get him it screws them in the years to come.

[skianth16]

I'm not sure how having a lottery pick on the team could ever be considered a bad thing. Our performance this year doesn't have anything to do with losing Henry, in my opinion.

[#UnleashSean]

Not sure how a one and done that everyone knew about was going to hurt them the next year. We didnt have a full scholarship fillout.

[Big Papi]

It hurts in that the entire team revolved around Henry. 
It hurts in that he left after 1 year.
It hurts in that it sure seemed like Wojo thought he was going to have him for 2 years.
It hurts that Wojo could have recruited a 4 year player at the power forward position that would have been huge this year.
It hurts that with Henry we didn't even get the bonus of making the NCAA tourney last year.

Now there are some benefits but to recruiting.  Maybe.  But it certainly didn't help us last year or this year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The argument is that Henry's presence scared away potential multi-year players at his position. Henry directly contributed to the departures of Taylor/Levin as well as the failed recruitments of Washington/Agau/Nichols and possibly others. Impossible to know, but I would take 1 year of Taylor/Levin and 1 year of Levin/Washington over 1 year of Henry and day and times on Sunday.

However, I would rather have a coach who lands the 5 star and then tries to land other players and fail, then the coach that doesn't go after the 5 star because he doesn't think he can do it.

[Afroman]

I would take a four-year year guy like Hayes, Happ and Kaminsky any day over a one-and-done. Let him go to Kentucky or Duke.

[rocky_warrior]

I would take a four-year year guy like Hayes, Happ and Kaminsky any day over a one-and-done. Let him go to Kentucky or Duke.

Then you should switch to being a fan of UW.  Or you already are....

[Afroman]

 I'm not. I went to MU and they are my No. 1, but being a lifetime Wisconsin resident, I also watch UW games and read about them. I am somewhat familiar with their program.

[skianth16]

If a four year guy, assumingly as a freshman, is scared off by not starting and having to compete against a future pro every day in practice, I'm not sure I'd want that guy anyway.

[#UnleashSean]

It hurts in that the entire team revolved around Henry. 
It hurts in that he left after 1 year.
It hurts in that it sure seemed like Wojo thought he was going to have him for 2 years.
It hurts that Wojo could have recruited a 4 year player at the power forward position that would have been huge this year.
It hurts that with Henry we didn't even get the bonus of making the NCAA tourney last year.

Now there are some benefits but to recruiting.  Maybe.  But it certainly didn't help us last year or this year.

If the team didnt revolve around henry we would have won 5 games.
Everyone knew that going in
Anyone who thought he was staying for more then 1 year was delusional.
Had open scholarships, did not land.
Again, without Henry we had 5 wins.

[brewcity77]

If the team didnt revolve around henry we would have won 5 games.
Everyone knew that going in
Anyone who thought he was staying for more then 1 year was delusional.
Had open scholarships, did not land.
Again, without Henry we had 5 wins.

5 wins? That's ridiculous. Absolutely, stone cold, complete cluelessness.

[Big Papi]

If the team didnt revolve around henry we would have won 5 games.
Everyone knew that going in
Anyone who thought he was staying for more then 1 year was delusional.
Had open scholarships, did not land.
Again, without Henry we had 5 wins.

Well is it a rebuild or isn't it?  1 win, 5 win or 15 wins.  I don't know if it matters as we didn't make any post season tournament last year and your star one and done player from last year left.  What was the benefit?  To win 15 games so we can be happy that Wojo is running our program to the longest post season drought in school history?

He was better off getting a 4 year power forward that would have made a difference this year if it was all about rebuilding. 

Ultimately, Wojo gambled that Henry would get us to the tourney last year.  That it failed miserably set back the rebuilding process.  That could ultimately cost his job.

[#UnleashSean]

Well is it a rebuild or isn't it?  1 win, 5 win or 15 wins.  I don't know if it matters as we didn't make any post season tournament last year and your star one and done player from last year left.  What was the benefit?  To win 15 games so we can be happy that Wojo is running our program to the longest post season drought in school history?

He was better off getting a 4 year power forward that would have made a difference this year if it was all about rebuilding. 

Ultimately, Wojo gambled that Henry would get us to the tourney last year.  That it failed miserably set back the rebuilding process.  That could ultimately cost his job.

He had an empty  scholarship. Henry did not effect any 4 year power forward from coming in.

[Big Papi]

He had an empty  scholarship. Henry did not effect any 4 year power forward from coming in.

Henry had free reign last year to do whatever he wanted.  Definitely didn't help the rebuild and this year.

[#UnleashSean]

5 wins? That's ridiculous. Absolutely, stone cold, complete cluelessness.

Are you so sure? Lets take a look. Also remember the fact that Fischer would not have nearly as many points last year when everyone was focused on Henry.
              (with)                                                                                                                    (without)
Belmont - Loss. - well thats easy, they lost with henry. They got slaughtered without him - Loss
IUPUI - win (ot) - Got taken to ot when Henry dropped 18 so lets chalk that up as a loss without Henry - Loss
Iowa - Loss - Well that was a slaughter so - Loss
LSU - Win - You're delusional if you think Marquette had a chance against Ben Simmons without Henry - Loss
Arizona St- Win (ot) - Henry and fischer both scored 18. But fischer fouled out. So good luck without Henry in this one - Loss
Jackson State - Win - Jackson state... - Win
Grambling - Win - "" "" - Win
Maine - Win - "" "" - Win
San Jose - Win - "" "" - Win
Wisconsin - Win - Not a chance without Henry - Loss
Chicago st - Win - blaaah - Win
Presbyt. - Win - Blah - Win
Seton hall - Loss - Lost by 20 at home, Henry double double - Massive loss
Georgetown - Loss - Duane put up 17 followed by Henry at 13 - Loss
Providence - Win - Henry played a lot of hero ball in this game, putting up a double double along with a block on Kris Dunn to seal the game - Loss
St Johns - Win - Henry put up 15 with another double double, Fischer had 18 and fouled out again. Needless to say, he would have fouled out and not had 18 without henry - Loss
Villanova - Loss - Ha - Loss
Xavier - Loss - Lost by 8.  Henry put up 20, Fischer once again fouled out (holy crap dude) - Loss
Depaul - Loss - Depaul loss at home. Fischer with a dumb foul to lose.. I dont even want to look at the box score (I did, Fischer played 20 with 4 fouls...) - Loss
St johns - Win - Henry put up 16 points 18 boards, fischer.... at least didn't foul out? This ones tough since Wilson and Cheatham had great games. - I'll award a win
Stetson? - Win JJJ put up 22 with Henry getting another double double, I remember this game looking ugly. but I think they pull out without Henry - Win
Butler - Win - Henry scored 32 had 6 blocks and 10 boards. Fischer surprisingly had 5 blocks and only 1 foul but failed to score a point. - Loss
Seton Hall - Loss - Fischer carried the load in this game as henry had 10 points and 4 fouls (but another double double, those "easy rebounds") - Loss
Xavier - Loss - HAHAHA - Loss
Providence - Win (2ot) - Henry played 48 minutes Scored 26 and grabbed 16 boards. Fischer fouled out after 25. Bentil scored 42. - Loss
Creighton - Loss - Henry 16 points, Fischer 12 points, Close game. - Loss
Depaul - Win - Cheatham 20points, Fischer 16, Henry 14. I think the pull the win without him - Win
Creighton - Win - Henry 22 points 10 rebounds Fischer 24 minutes 3 fouls 8 points 2 rebounds. - Loss
Villanova - Loss - Wally had himself a game, but without Henry there is no Wally (Fischer 4 fouls 20 minutes) - Massive Loss
Georgetown - Win - Fischer 23 points, only 2 fouls. Henry 10 points 11 rebounds 5 assists. 1 pt game. Gunna have to give them the L - Loss
Butler - 20 point Loss - Henry 29 points. Fischer 4 fouls, 19 minutes - Laughable Loss
BET St Johns - Win  - Of course with my predictions there playing Nova right now. but... Henry 27 points 14 rebounds Fischer 10 points, 5 fouls - Loss
BET Xavier - Loss - Wouldn't have played. But - Loss

After calculating all this Marquette gets 9 wins. 7 of which I don't believe cracked the top 150 RPI. 2-14 big east play. So I guess your technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Disclaimer: I calculated alot of Fischers efforts to not be as big without Henry. With the horrid 3 pt shooting of last year, Fischer would have been more smothered inside than Davante was his Senior year if Henry never played.

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm not sure how having a lottery pick on the team could ever be considered a bad thing. Our performance this year doesn't have anything to do with losing Henry, in my opinion.

Henry was not a lottery pick.  He missed the lottery by 4 spots.

The last lottery pick from MU was Wade.

Henry was a first round pick, the first once since Butler (and Lazar the year before).

Maybe if Henry played like a lottery pick we would have done better last year. 

And maybe if Henry was a lottery pick talent, he would not be in the D-League now.

[#UnleashSean]

And maybe if Henry was a lottery pick talent, he would not be in the D-League now.

The NBA doesn't work like it did 10 years ago. Lots of rookies now go to the D-League. It's much more like an MLB minor league system then it used to be.

[Tugg Speedman]

I would take a four-year year guy like Hayes, Happ and Kaminsky any day over a one-and-done. Let him go to Kentucky or Duke.

Happ and Kaminsky ... two unknown, unhealed three star guys that blew up was beyond the most optimistic projections.

Kaminsky - Been noted here before he is the first ever National Player of Year (NPOY) that did not even start his first two years.  In other words, his Freshman/Soph stats were the worst ever for someone that became NPOY.  A true "Black Swan."

Happ, a skinny three star 6'7" forward from nowhere IL that was red-shirted and two years later was a 6' 10" power forward and Freshman Big 10 Player of the Year.  Maybe 20 Freshman in the B1G last year, if not more, were higher rated than Happ coming out of HS and he was the Freshman Player of the Year.

Restate the above .. We have a Kaminsky and Happ now ... Sacar and Heldt.  Both of them was as highly rated as those two coming out of HS.  Happ and Kaminsjy are the equivalent of winning back to back games on 80 foot shots.  Because it happened twice in a row you now think it should happen all the time.

Has any school in the history of college basketball taken two "not top 100 HS recruits" and watch one become a NPOY and the other follow on the same track?  These two might be the only two to ever do this and they both went to the same school back to back, and play the same position.

[Afroman]

They were the first three non-MU four-year players off the top of my head. Feel free to plug in any successful four-year guy instead.

[Tugg Speedman]

They were the first three non-MU four-year players off the top of my head. Feel free to plug in any successful four-year guy instead.

(note some are three year players)

Jimmy Butler, Devante Gardner, Chris Outle, DJO, Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson

[Afroman]

That works, too.

[Da 'Lanche]

Henry had free reign last year to do whatever he wanted.  Definitely didn't help the rebuild and this year.

Respect your opinion but disagree.   It is not like someone brought the ball up past half court and gave it to Henry and he could just run amok of the offense.    Henry was our best option last year and our best player....it is no wonder the offense ran through and around him.    Did he take 3 pointers when he wasn't hot from the outside...yes...but, they were typically open 3s and not forced and you would expect him to have a level of confidence in his shots.

Can you imagine the uproar if we turned down a 5 star, top 15 recruit who may be a 1 and done so other guys can develop?    Good Lord.

[Tugg Speedman]

The NBA doesn't work like it did 10 years ago. Lots of rookies now go to the D-League. It's much more like an MLB minor league system then it used to be.

Henry has logged 56 minutes in the NBA this year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

Only three first rounders have logged fewer minutes ...

#10 Georgios Papagiannis has played 10 minutes. 
#28 Skal Labissiere has played 43 minutes
#30 Damian Jones has played 26 minutes.

Of the top 25 drafted players that played in a US college, Henry has the fewest minutes.

(note six other first round players have not even suited up for their teams.  They are all foreign and still playing overseas and that was the plan when drafted.  So all of them get "incomplete" grades.)

Further 12 guys in the second round have played more minutes than Henry this year.

No Henry is not a bust.  But he is on the road to being a bust.  Not too late to get off this road.  Anytime he wants to I'm sure the Piston fans will be very happy.

[brewcity77]

Are you so sure?

Yes. Your own numbers prove it. The reason I'm so decisively positive is because I remember last year's schedule. 5 wins is stupid to even fathom.

Second, your view is myopic. No Henry also means Levin and Taylor still here. Quite a few of those close games may have been just as winnable without Henry. And let's also remember, he had some bad black hole games that we lost. Maybe not a ton, but we would've still won 12-15 without him. No technicality about it.

[wadesworld]

So wait, there are some people on this board who would turn down guys like Jayson Taytom, Josh Jackson, Malik Monk, or Miles Bridges so that we could have a guy like JuJuan Johnson or Sacar Anim or Haanif Cheatham on the roster for longer?

Or maybe we should pass on adding Bam Adebayo or Lauri Markkanen or TJ Leaf so we can have guys like Matt Heldt on the roster.

Lol.