Who Does MU Compete With For Students?

[drewm88]

All Health Sciences are in Maywood, including undergraduate nursing. And getting there from the main campus involves two different train lines and a bus, not to mention an hour and 45 minutes of your time.  How would you like it if some of your Marquette classes were held out in Waukesha?  Or if you were in the B-School or a Comm major, having to take public transportation to UWM for all of the classes in your major?

All undergrad classes of the School of Nursing (which includes Exercise Science and Health Systems Management) are held at the Rogers Park campus.

http://luc.edu/nursing/admission/undergrad-admission/faqs/

Nursing students don't have to go out to Maywood unless they have a clinical there.

[StillWarriors]

Don't think this has been challenged enough...

Dayton? Really?"



As a MU alum who loved my experience, I've been paying close attention to this over the past few years as my oldest is a senior in high school this year. Anecdotally, I know of at least 10 kids who were considering MU, SLU and Dayton, among other schools, over the past few years. Several of those had one or both parents attend MU. 4 out of 4 I know who considered MU and SLU for PT went to SLU, despite MU being ranked a bit better for PT (though both are very good). From speaking with those people, it seems SLU out-marketed MU in attracting those students. That is disconcerting. The others were not PT majors, but all but 2 opted for SLU or Dayton. Dayton is on a real roll in terms of increased popularity, at least among kids in the Chicagoland area.  Without question, in my experience, far more kids deciding between both have opted for Dayton the past few years. Part of that may have to do with Dayton being a slightly more generous with merit awards. Other common reasons I have heard are the campus (Dayton's is nicer, though I prefer Milwaukee over Dayton in terms of the city) and that everyone who attends Dayton loves it. That was always the common refrain among kids at MU. I hope that is still the case.
Though my son grew up loving MU and got accepted, it is very likely he'll attend Dayton because MU doesn't offer what he wants to study as a major. I suspect it would have been a tough call for him if they did offer it, but Dayton was more attractive in terms of his visits to look at the schools. Without him growing up a MU fan because of me, I'm not sure it would be real close. It's going to take some work to shift from my long-standing disdain for Dayton fans, but I have to say I can see the appeal to kids at this stage. Dayton is far nicer now than it was when I visited in college, and there is no question it is a direct competitor with MU at this point, as much as MU folks may not want to admit that.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Don't think this has been challenged enough...

Dayton? Really?

I'm not sure anyone could favorably compare Dayton to Milwaukee on any level - national profile, culture and things to do, restaurants, parks/green space, business environment...

I used to teach at a small, Catholic High School 20 miles west of Chicago; lately, the school has sent a ton of kids to Dayton.  I've only been to the city of Dayton once, (and never seen UD's campus), so I often described the area as a "dump."  All the parents and current students at UD are quick to correct me, citing the old cash register factory, (NCR?) and the lake near it.  I guess part of Dayton is actually rather pretty.

[StillWarriors]

Don't think this has been challenged enough...

Dayton? Really?

I messed the quote up the first time; trying again:

As a MU alum who loved my experience, I've been paying close attention to this over the past few years as my oldest is a senior in high school this year. Anecdotally, I know of at least 10 kids who were considering MU, SLU and Dayton, among other schools, over the past few years. Several of those had one or both parents attend MU. 4 out of 4 I know who considered MU and SLU for PT went to SLU, despite MU being ranked a bit better for PT (though both are very good). From speaking with those people, it seems SLU out-marketed MU in attracting those students. That is disconcerting. The others were not PT majors, but all but 2 opted for SLU or Dayton. Dayton is on a real roll in terms of increased popularity, at least among kids in the Chicagoland area.  Without question, in my experience, far more kids deciding between both have opted for Dayton the past few years. Part of that may have to do with Dayton being a slightly more generous with merit awards. Other common reasons I have heard are the campus (Dayton's is nicer, though I prefer Milwaukee over Dayton in terms of the city) and that everyone who attends Dayton loves it. That was always the common refrain among kids at MU. I hope that is still the case.
Though my son grew up loving MU and got accepted, it is very likely he'll attend Dayton because MU doesn't offer what he wants to study as a major. I suspect it would have been a tough call for him if they did offer it, but Dayton was more attractive in terms of his visits to look at the schools. Without him growing up a MU fan because of me, I'm not sure it would be real close. It's going to take some work to shift from my long-standing disdain for Dayton fans, but I have to say I can see the appeal to kids at this stage. Dayton is far nicer now than it was when I visited in college, and there is no question it is a direct competitor with MU at this point, as much as MU folks may not want to admit that.

[warriorchick]

All undergrad classes of the School of Nursing (which includes Exercise Science and Health Systems Management) are held at the Rogers Park campus.

http://luc.edu/nursing/admission/undergrad-admission/faqs/

Nursing students don't have to go out to Maywood unless they have a clinical there.

Okay; I stand corrected.

[Herman Cain]

My sense is DePaul and Loyola today are most similar to Marquette back when I attended in the early 80s.  As chick mentioned, the commuter percentage at maybe 25% reflects that.  MU's commuter percentage is now down under 5% (99 of 2002 in this year's Frosh class).

Here's one other thing. This year's class is the second largest in many years topped only by 2011.  There is no doubt that the targeted application process was successful.  I haven't heard anything about this year yet but suspect I will at a meeting on NMD.

It would help our rating if we were more selective, the best thing we can do is to have kids actually get denied admission. Makes the ones who got admitted it value it more. That is part of the game that needs to be played to get the rating up. Also have every alumni contribute something even if it's only $5. They look at percent of alumni giving.
I am not a fan of the targeted application process it just defines us down . Have to set bigger goals if you want to achieve greatness.  People judge a school by the company it keeps.

[warriorchick]

It would help our rating if we were more selective, the best thing we can do is to have kids actually get denied admission. Makes the ones who got admitted it value it more. That is part of the game that needs to be played to get the rating up. Also have every alumni contribute something even if it's only $5. They look at percent of alumni giving.
I am not a fan of the targeted application process it just defines us down . Have to set bigger goals if you want to achieve greatness.  People judge a school by the company it keeps.

I think I just came up with our new slogan:

Marquette University:  We're snobbier a$$holes than those poor slobs in Dayton.

ETA:  Your suggestion is such an East Coast thing to say.   

[Galway Eagle]

It would help our rating if we were more selective, the best thing we can do is to have kids actually get denied admission. Makes the ones who got admitted it value it more. That is part of the game that needs to be played to get the rating up. Also have every alumni contribute something even if it's only $5. They look at percent of alumni giving.
I am not a fan of the targeted application process it just defines us down . Have to set bigger goals if you want to achieve greatness.  People judge a school by the company it keeps.

While that obviously makes sense you realize it's counter to the Jesuit mission right?

[Herman Cain]

While that obviously makes sense you realize it's counter to the Jesuit mission right?

BC and Georgetown don't subscribe to the same Jesuit mission.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Don't think this has been challenged enough...

Dayton? Really?"



As a MU alum who loved my experience, I've been paying close attention to this over the past few years as my oldest is a senior in high school this year. Anecdotally, I know of at least 10 kids who were considering MU, SLU and Dayton, among other schools, over the past few years. Several of those had one or both parents attend MU. 4 out of 4 I know who considered MU and SLU for PT went to SLU, despite MU being ranked a bit better for PT (though both are very good). From speaking with those people, it seems SLU out-marketed MU in attracting those students. That is disconcerting. The others were not PT majors, but all but 2 opted for SLU or Dayton. Dayton is on a real roll in terms of increased popularity, at least among kids in the Chicagoland area.  Without question, in my experience, far more kids deciding between both have opted for Dayton the past few years. Part of that may have to do with Dayton being a slightly more generous with merit awards. Other common reasons I have heard are the campus (Dayton's is nicer, though I prefer Milwaukee over Dayton in terms of the city) and that everyone who attends Dayton loves it. That was always the common refrain among kids at MU. I hope that is still the case.
Though my son grew up loving MU and got accepted, it is very likely he'll attend Dayton because MU doesn't offer what he wants to study as a major. I suspect it would have been a tough call for him if they did offer it, but Dayton was more attractive in terms of his visits to look at the schools. Without him growing up a MU fan because of me, I'm not sure it would be real close. It's going to take some work to shift from my long-standing disdain for Dayton fans, but I have to say I can see the appeal to kids at this stage. Dayton is far nicer now than it was when I visited in college, and there is no question it is a direct competitor with MU at this point, as much as MU folks may not want to admit that.

Sounds like u raised ur kid wrong.  My okdest will graduate from MU this spring

[StillWarriors]

Sounds like u raised ur kid wrong.  My okdest will graduate from MU this spring

That must be it.

[Galway Eagle]

BC and Georgetown don't subscribe to the same Jesuit mission.

I would argue that they do not.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Growing up in the Chicago area, my college applications went out to Marquette, Saint Louis, Notre Dame, and U of I. In retrospect, that seems like a really short list. Even the U of I application only went out because it was free. About a third of my Catholic high school went to UIUC, a third to some combination of MU, ND, or SLU, and a third went somewhere else.

By the time I got waitlisted at ND, I had already gotten into MU and SLU, and had decided that I didn't want to wait around for ND to make a decision. I tallied up MU and SLU's pros and cons (remember, this was 15 years ago, back when both schools were in Conference USA). The tally came out to a dead-even tie.

My dad told me to flip a coin. I thought that was a pretty flippant way to make a big decision. He told me "No, flip the coin, heads Marquette/tails SLU, and hold it on your hand for 5 minutes. Don't look at it. If it's heads and you're happy, you know where you want to go. If it's heads and you're disappointed, you know where you want to go."

It was heads, and I ended up going to Marquette. As fate would have it, I ended up going to SLU for law school.

[MU_Hoop]

Used to work in admissions.

Loyola, SLU, Creighton, Xavier, Madison, MN

[Herman Cain]

Used to work in admissions.

Loyola, SLU, Creighton, Xavier, Madison, MN

Makes a lot of sense.

[DFW HOYA]

BC and Georgetown don't subscribe to the same Jesuit mission.

If the Jesuit mission is to take lots of kids from Catholic schools, you may be on to something. Only 18% of Georgetown's admissions pool is from a Catholic HS and numbers have a lot to do with it.

http://www.thehoya.com/georgetown-early-action-admissions-rate-reaches-record-low/

[MUtopper34]

I suggest you look at the college confidential forums if you wish to gain first hand perspective. There is plenty of discussion as to what these high school students are thinking when they look at Marquette and Dayton.

Nobody has mentioned it, but Dayton is much more of a party school than Marquette. It consistently ranks among the best, with a recent top 5 spot via Playboy and number 1 overall via BroBible. Hate it or love it, these things matter. It resonates with thirsty students when friends older than them are having a great time. I drove around MU campus before the Nova game and it was a ghost town. Even at the game, the student section was no more than 60% full. Dayton, in a considerably smaller market, consistently sells tickets for a much higher percentage of the arena - recently averaging 12k+ per game in a 13k arena.

Dayton also has a nicer and more collegiate campus. That hasn't been mentioned either. MU is urban, full of people driving through, and homeless. Many young people like a more traditional environment.

Better party atmosphere and more collegiate feel go a long way. Two big reasons that Dayton is competing with MU despite lower academic rank. Gives me solace that Kostas might have picked Dayton over MU even if we offered him.

[Eldon]

Growing up in the Chicago area, my college applications went out to Marquette, Saint Louis, Notre Dame, and U of I. In retrospect, that seems like a really short list. Even the U of I application only went out because it was free. About a third of my Catholic high school went to UIUC, a third to some combination of MU, ND, or SLU, and a third went somewhere else.

By the time I got waitlisted at ND, I had already gotten into MU and SLU, and had decided that I didn't want to wait around for ND to make a decision. I tallied up MU and SLU's pros and cons (remember, this was 15 years ago, back when both schools were in Conference USA). The tally came out to a dead-even tie.

My dad told me to flip a coin. I thought that was a pretty flippant way to make a big decision. He told me "No, flip the coin, heads Marquette/tails SLU, and hold it on your hand for 5 minutes. Don't look at it. If it's heads and you're happy, you know where you want to go. If it's heads and you're disappointed, you know where you want to go."

It was heads, and I ended up going to Marquette. As fate would have it, I ended up going to SLU for law school.

I like this.  Good advice.

[Galway Eagle]

I suggest you look at the college confidential forums if you wish to gain first hand perspective. There is plenty of discussion as to what these high school students are thinking when they look at Marquette and Dayton.

Nobody has mentioned it, but Dayton is much more of a party school than Marquette. It consistently ranks among the best, with a recent top 5 spot via Playboy and number 1 overall via BroBible. Hate it or love it, these things matter. It resonates with thirsty students when friends older than them are having a great time. I drove around MU campus before the Nova game and it was a ghost town. Even at the game, the student section was no more than 60% full. Dayton, in a considerably smaller market, consistently sells tickets for a much higher percentage of the arena - recently averaging 12k+ per game in a 13k arena.

Dayton also has a nicer and more collegiate campus. That hasn't been mentioned either. MU is urban, full of people driving through, and homeless. Many young people like a more traditional environment.

Better party atmosphere and more collegiate feel go a long way. Two big reasons that Dayton is competing with MU despite lower academic rank. Gives me solace that Kostas might have picked Dayton over MU even if we offered him.

I don't follow these lists anymore since I'm not 18 trying to get my friends to visit but I do know that my freshman and sophomore years Playboy ranked MU as the number 1 catholic party school. I also know that Dayton was not on any list those years. Maybe you're right and things have changed or maybe you're going off a really really old list.

[Tugg Speedman]

I suggest you look at the college confidential forums if you wish to gain first hand perspective. There is plenty of discussion as to what these high school students are thinking when they look at Marquette and Dayton.

Nobody has mentioned it, but Dayton is much more of a party school than Marquette. It consistently ranks among the best, with a recent top 5 spot via Playboy and number 1 overall via BroBible. Hate it or love it, these things matter. It resonates with thirsty students when friends older than them are having a great time. I drove around MU campus before the Nova game and it was a ghost town. Even at the game, the student section was no more than 60% full. Dayton, in a considerably smaller market, consistently sells tickets for a much higher percentage of the arena - recently averaging 12k+ per game in a 13k arena.

Dayton also has a nicer and more collegiate campus. That hasn't been mentioned either. MU is urban, full of people driving through, and homeless. Many young people like a more traditional environment.

Better party atmosphere and more collegiate feel go a long way. Two big reasons that Dayton is competing with MU despite lower academic rank. Gives me solace that Kostas might have picked Dayton over MU even if we offered him.

Agree with you that Dayton being a bigger party school matters to HS kids.

Disagree about the urban campus.  Millennials are more urban then previous generations.  So much so that GE moved to Boston and McDonald's is moving to downtown Chicago (and Caterpillar is leaving Peoria for Chicago).    These companies are not re-locating to more urban setting because the middle-aged managers with three kids and a country club membership want to work downtown, they are doing it because that puts them in the best position to attract millennials, the future of their companies.

Adding to this the number of families that are raising kids in urban settings.  As I have mentioned before, I live in Lincoln Park and have four kids in Private school.  When my oldest was accepted into kindergarten in 1998, it was thought to be as selective as getting into an ivy league college.  But by third grade so many families bailed for the suburbs that they had unfilled spots and would take just about anyone.  Today, every spot and every grade is filled with a waiting list.  That is the case at most selective schools in Chicago. 

The point is living "urban" is more desired than ever and an urban schools are also desired.  New York University is surging in popularity because it is in Greenwich Village.  UCLA, is the middle of LA, is the first college to get over 100,000 applications (last year).  Ditto Boston University and many other urban schools.

Many "urban oriented kids" hear more collegiate campus and really hear "boring."  An urban school is a reason for a lot of kids to pick MU, not shy away from it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

How is Dayton a bigger party school? Have any of you actually been to Dayton?

[Galway Eagle]

Re Dayton as a party school

http://campusgrotto.com/playboys-top-party-schools-for-2010.html

I don't think they've named a top catholic party school in a few years though

[Tugg Speedman]

Re Dayton as a party school

http://campusgrotto.com/playboys-top-party-schools-for-2010.html

I don't think they've named a top catholic party school in a few years though

you link did have this

Best Catholic Party School: Marquette

[Coleman]

you link did have this

Best Catholic Party School: Marquette

Yup, I remember when that came out. Was a big deal in these parts.

Not sure if I agree with it, but, hey, no publicity is bad publicity.

[The Lens]

How is Dayton a bigger party school? Have any of you actually been to Dayton?

Because we stopped partying. 

I look at the student as four quadrants.

Lower East
Lower West (behind the band)
Upper Bottom
Upper Top

Here's how that was for #22 Butler:

Lower East: FULL
Lower West: Half Full
Upper Bottom: Empty
Upper Top: Empty

We have a student body of kids who no longer resemble previous student bodies.  I'm not saying that's good or bad but it's a different type of student.